Is scripture the highest authority?

The word of God is the highest authority.

No one can disagree with the above statement.

Is scripture the inspired word of God?

If yes, then scripture is the highest authority.

Is scripture the only highest authority is what is being implied by the original poster?

No, because that would imply a limitation of the highest authority who is God, to the written word, yet we know that God speaks through the Spirit of Truth.

That being said, all things as Paul said would need to be tested and the test is based on the unwavering and unchangeble word of God, that would need to be consistent with the written word and not by any means contradict it.

So that the highest authority who is God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow and any doctrine would be according to the efficacy and in line with the consistency of the unchangeble living word, whether written or spoken or seen.

AnticipateHisComing said:

My thread, my question. Your thread on SS is mired in multiple arguments and statements. The most offensive one I found was one by a fellow EO follower that said scripture was not the highest authority. In this thread I wish to argue THAT point and see how prevalent it is in the Christian body. Is it actually a stated doctrine of the EO church or any others? Is it just one person's individual belief?

Your response seems to indicate a yes answer that scripture is the highest authority, but it is not completely clear. Further the words of a fellow EO member says something different. Can you clarify with a yes or no answer and if that is the EO official doctrine?

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There is a huge problem with the 'Scripture as highest authority' position. It is simply this; anyone can quote any Bible verse out of context and claim that as the final answer to any question, and their own authority equal to God's. That is a very dangerous path for any minister, any church. The Bible even warns against this:

Isaiah 28:13

Ironically, the final authority has to be Scripture itself; does the Bible say that it is the highest authority on earth? Nope. Nowhere; not even close. The Bible is useful for teaching. So is my Dictionary.

The Bible is very, very clear; authority lies with God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit, which makes the Holy Spirit the highest earthly authority, on behalf of the Godhead.

If I read from the Bible, or quote the Bible, I do NOT become God. Nothing like it. The Holy Spirit remains God.

AnticipateHisComing said:

Yes, the Holy Spirit is essential in helping us understand God's word. I would say traditions may also help in understanding God's word.

But, in my thread I wanted to keep it just on the absolute authority of incontrovertible truth currently physically present on earth. The truth stands despite anyone's understanding or even acknowledging it.

I wanted to keep the thread on the source of absolute truth to keep it away from the bigger question and mire of arguments in the Sola Scriptura discussions.

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The Bible is not the absolute authority of incontrovertible truth. There is no such thing; that authority belongs ONLY to God, and he does not take kindly to us setting up idols and plating them with gold, not even Bible shaped ones.

As already stated, if we give ultimate authority to the Bible, we also give it to anyone who decides to quote from it and interpret it his or her own way; that is a very, very dangerous path. That is why interpretation has to be compared with traditional church creeds and beliefs; it prevents the nutters from making up their own religions. Just look at Islam for where that can lead to; no matter how conservative it gets there is always some nutter who thinks it can be more conservative, not from the words themselves, but from spurious interpretation.

Moslems regard the Koran in this way, but Christians are not Moslems. The Word of God is Christ himself, not a book.

AnticipateHisComing said:

The Church didn't write the N.T., a very few select number of mostly apostles wrote the words that Jesus spoke through them. The body of saints existed before the N.T. scripture was written, so what. Existence before matters for nothing. The Jewish priests with all their traditions are long gone in regard to a source of spiritual truths since they have rejected Christ.

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I'm not sure what your point is. Mine is simply this: the NT is an expression of the Church, the Church is not an expression of the NT.

Michael Collum said:

The same is true with bible interpretation though ..

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No the same is not true of Bible interpretation. To take a trite example, "Thou shalt not steal," cannot easily be twisted into, "Thou shalt steal."

There may not be any absolutely bullet proof of establishing some objectivity in religion, but the Bible is certainly a big improvement on, "Whatever I pull out of my own head - that's the Holy Spirit talking to me."

The word of God isn't the highest authority; the Word of God (Logos) is the highest authority. The former is entailed in the latter, and is an example of the latter. Scripture gives you general principles for how to live your life, but it doesn't guide you by the hand in day-to-day matters. That's where Christ in incorporeal form (the Logos) comes in. Just as the written word is read with the eyes, the unwritten Word is read with the soul (consciousness).

It's like choosing to trust the writings of a friend from ten years ago when he's trying to get your attention in flesh and blood. This emphasis on the written word can actually culminate in idolatry. Not to mention that putting scripture on the highest authoritative pedestal means the illiterate are worse off than the literate.

I've read this entire blog from the OP to this point. All I've gathered so far is that nobody seems to understand what anyone else is talking about.

You have the original poster, that as far as I know keeps asking, "What is the highest physical authority that we have on this earth?" Her claim (again, if I understand correctly) is that it is the Bible.

Than you have the other side that keeps trying to answer her by saying that it cannot be the Scriptures, because despite their being the words of God, they were the "inspired" words of God, and words are simply lines on paper. Without someone that knows how to read and properly interpret those words, they mean nothing. (I realize that sounds harsh. It even sounds harsh to me, who truly loves reading the word of God.) Furthermore the teachings and ideas existed from the beginning (if referring to the OT) and from Christ (if referring to the NT). Many years before they were put down on paper. Therefore it cannot be the Bible itself, but the infallible meaning to the words of God that is the highest authority. Who or what knows the infallible meaning to the words written in the Bible, why the Holy Spirit!

The OP responds, o.k., but again, what physical thing do we have on this earth that you'd say is the highest authority. The Holy Spirit is certainly God, but you cannot see or touch Him. So she believes that it must then be the Scriptures!

It keeps sounding like the story of which came first the chicken or the egg! Except, I believe that their may be a way (just maybe, by the grace of God) to satisfy both sides. Let's start with the Scriptures, only because that's where the OP started:

Do the Scriptures contain All of the Doctrines/Dogmas of the Christian faith? If we take the position that ONLY Scripture is the highest authority, then most Christian religions are going to have a problem. For one thing, where in scripture does it say that scripture is the sole highest authority for Christians? Where does scripture teach about the trinity? Does scripture contain a list that names which books and letters should make up the Bible? If scripture is the highest authority on earth; what does scripture say is the "pillar and foundation of truth"? (If the OP is correct, I would certainly expect this answer to be Scripture.) Does the Bible contain all of Christ's teachings? If so, where in the Bible does it tell us that? If not, how do we know that? Is everything in the Bible true? And, where are we told to go (according to scripture) if we have a dispute with our neighbor? Who or what does the apostle Paul tell us we are to follow? (2 Thes.2:15 or 1 Cor.11:2), and lastly in Thes.3:16, who does Paul say we should shun?

So I hope this will please both, for as the OP noted; Sacred Scripture is certainly the inspired word of God, written by faithful men it had been entrusted to. But, the opposite is also true; the Scriptures don't contain everything that is considered doctrine by most Christians, such as the belief in the Trinity. That is revealed through Sacred Tradition (not the traditions of man that is spoken against by our Lord), this Sacred Tradition is mentioned several places in the Bible. For whatever it's worth. THIS is the Tradition that Catholics are referring to when they teach us to follow Scripture plus Tradition. (yep, there are many people who call themselves Catholic that don't even know what their own faith teaches, so if you hear otherwise, they're simply wrong. Like I've said on here before; I can sit in a garage, but that doesn't make me a car.). Also, there are scriptures that speak of the passing on of the special gifts that accompany the Bishopric and also writings of the first Christians that make it very clear that they do receive special gifts, given to them by God, through the laying on of hands, in order to guide the church. This is scriptural.

I'm sorry for the length of this; but I was getting very tired of reading over and over the same confusion with the OP. I sincerely hope this helps. Please! Look up the scriptures that I listed. If you still remain unclear on this issue than let me know and I'll try to take another swing at the plate.

God Bless you all! I know you all are truly intent on doing the right thing in following Christ.

AnticipateHisComing said:

In the Sola Scriptura thread a claim was made that scripture is not the highest authority we have now. I was flabbergasted that Christians would make such a claim, as I believe scripture to be God's word. While there were multiple writers of scripture, the author of the words are none other than God who used the Holy Spirit to direct the writers. Of course scripture attests to this in multiple places.

My belief that scripture is the highest authority that we Christians now living have is based on the truth that God is supreme. In the absence of God's physical presence, we have God's word as next highest authority, John 1:17, John 17:17, John 8:31-32, Mat 24:35. God's words are in places direct quotes of Jesus in the first four books of the N.T. God's words are also Jesus working through the Holy Spirit to speak through the 13 apostles, who Jesus gave special authority, 2 cor 13:3.

The greatest special authority the apostles had was to write down scripture, speak God's word. This was completed 60 years after Jesus' departure. While the canon of scripture was not declared until later, God's words in the N.T. scriptures were circulating and being used before the later date that certain church leaders took it upon themselves to throw out the trash that had been added to the list of "scripture" over time. Understand that the authority to throw out trash is lower than the authority to speak God's word. For by the diligent reading of God's words, we could all attain the understanding needed to test false teachings and throw out the trash. Scripture in fact gives this task to all, to test what you are being taught against scripture.

Some falsely claim that others today continue with the same authority as the first apostles, and that the Holy Spirit speaks through them with equal truth. I ask what proof of their authority do we have? Were they called directly by Jesus? Do they perform the miracles like Jesus did. Are their words added to the canon?

I believe what scripture says, that the Holy Spirit continues to speak through many Christians today including religious leaders of all denominations. The question is how can one be certain of what anyone says at any given time is the truth? There is only one that can not lie, God. Given that we live in a fallen world and continue to sin, there is no proof that what anyone of any religious knowledge or authority always speaks the truth. To me the whole issue of the SS battle is just one of incontrovertible truth. As God and scripture testifies to its truth, I see no argument proving that there is incontrovertible truth anywhere else except in God's words.

We can always be certain that God's word in scripture is always true. How can this be said for anything else?

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In the absence of Gods physical presence we have the writings of Holy men. It's tempting to make those writings Gods writings for the simple fact that it's easier and more certain then seeking Gods will in spirit.

AS for the institutionalized church (who wrote the bible books in the first place) then yes, they use the Bible as their authority.

Received said:

The word of God isn't the highest authority; the Word of God (Logos) is the highest authority. The former is entailed in the latter, and is an example of the latter. Scripture gives you general principles for how to live your life, but it doesn't guide you by the hand in day-to-day matters. That's where Christ in incorporeal form (the Logos) comes in. Just as the written word is read with the eyes, the unwritten Word is read with the soul (consciousness).

It's like choosing to trust the writings of a friend from ten years ago when he's trying to get your attention in flesh and blood. This emphasis on the written word can actually culminate in idolatry. Not to mention that putting scripture on the highest authoritative pedestal means the illiterate are worse off than the literate.

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Colter said:

In the absence of Gods physical presence we have the writings of Holy men. It's tempting to make those writings Gods writings for the simple fact that it's easier and more certain then seeking Gods will in spirit.

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That is just another name for calling whatever comes out of your own head, the utterances of the Spirit.

AS for the institutionalized church (who wrote the bible books in the first place) then yes, they use the Bible as their authority.

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The biblical texts were composed before there was an institutional Church. The Church as a highly centralised institution could only begin to emerge after Christianity had become a legal religion.

Vicomte13 said:

No. YOU are the highest authority in what you choose, or choose not to, believe.
...But what you believe about it is completely under your sole authority and nobody else's. Moreover, what you say about that belief is also completely under your authority. The ultimate authority in what Scripture MEANS is you, and noone else.

Because that is true of each and every man, conflict occurs.

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That is indeed the reality in the modern world. People who say, "It's not me saying it, the Bible says it..." aren't being personally accountable with their beliefs.

lesliedellow said:

That is just another name for calling whatever comes out of your own head, the utterances of the Spirit.




The biblical texts were composed before there was an institutional Church. The Church as a highly centralised institution could only begin to emerge after Christianity had become a legal religion.

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Hi Leslie, I enjoy your post here on CF.

You said "That is just another name for calling whatever comes out of your own head, the utterances of the Spirit." That's the kind of argument Atheist make. And clearly men of religion have also denied the spirit in their hearts and coldly relied on the scripture in justification for committing all sorts of atrocities. Following your apparent lack of a prayerful relationship with God, had you been a Jew loyal to scripture authority, you would have also rejected Jesus......according to your, not very well thought out argument.

When I use the term "institutional church" I mean any and all bodies of holy men that comprised religion throughout the development of that which we call Judaic Christian history. I don't want to bust your bubble but you seem mature enough and intelligent enough to handle it, the holy men of religion are just men, like the men of politics. However well intentioned, they have limitations, bias and even corrupt motives. The church councils never were "inerrant" any more than the Obama administration is inerrant. Neither were the authors, redactors and editors of the so called scripture. The creature may crave perfection, but only the creator possess it.

If I get to a fork in an unfamiliar road and need to know whether to turn right or left, I may pray and perhaps get guidance from the Holy Spirit. A GPS might be of some use. The scriptures or Bible will remain mute.

Years ago I attended a lecture where the guest speaker was Hershel Shanks, editor of the Biblical Archaeology Review. He was telling us the Dead Seas Scrolls found at Qumran did not totally match the Hebrew Bible or the Christian translations of the Old Testament. This was due to copying errors that occurred between the first century when Qumran was abandoned and 1947 when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found. If scripture contains no errors, I am not sure we have enough scripture.

Constantine the Sinner said:

A lot of translations are actually awful. ESV, RSV, KJV are all good. NIV and NRSV belong in the trash. And the "Message" translation is horrendous.

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And your basis for saying this is..? The various bibles are written for different purposes, and almost all of them fulfill those goals.

In case you're not aware there is no such thing as a literal bible. If there was it would be unreadable! Translators not only have to translate the ancient documents but they have put them in the words, grammar, meaning, idioms, etc. of the receptor language so that the readers can understand what was said.

IMHO one of the worst translations is the KJV. It is written in 400-year-old English and is based on the textus receptus, a collection of medieval manuscripts that, we now know, contain many inaccuracies. The KJV is written verse by verse, which bears no resemblance to the earliest texts or modern English and leads to out-of-context errors. Have you ever noticed that when people preach from the KJV they almost always translate it "on the fly" for the audience to understand? Why? Because the arcane language is so obtuse that most people don't really understand it. If you love 400-year-old English, fine, but the Bible is meant to be understood and glorify God, Christ, and the Spirit, not make people swoon over how it sounds.

One of the best is the NIV. It is the most widely read bible, whether inside or outside of church. It was put together by a team of renowned scholars and has been revised as more and better knowledge of the source languages and ancient culture has become available.

Be careful how you refer to God's word, regardless of the particular translation. Hopefully if you throw a translation in the trash, someone who needs it will fish it out.