Is science at odds with philosophy?

AV1611VET · Feb 24, 2022

Hans Blaster said:
If you want to find out there is this new website called "Google" that might be useful. They have this amazing search engine that can find things out for you.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Look what I found on it:

MACROEVOLUTION

COSMIC EVOLUTION

GENUS = KIND

Opdrey · Feb 24, 2022

AV1611VET said:
What about Vioxx?

It is a mystery to me why you allow yourself to cherry pick topics that make it sound like science is fundamentally flawed while denying that to anyone debating against your religion. It's almost like you never read Luke 6:31. Maybe that part of your KJV was redacted?

But the minute someone points out issues with the Bible or things Christians have done that are bad you are a SPECIAL PLEADING MACHINE.

Always with excuses.

You know why? Because SCIENCE NEVER CLAIMS TO BE 100% PERFECT. NEVER.

Religion, however, ALWAYS CLAIMS PERFECT KNOWLEDGE. Even when they are shown to be wrong.

AV1611VET · Feb 24, 2022

Opdrey said:
It is a mystery to me why you allow yourself to cherry pick topics that make it sound like science is fundamentally flawed while denying that to anyone debating against your religion.

Do I try to get scientists to abandon their belief in their calling?

Do you see me claiming there is no such thing as the physical realm?

Do you see me saying their Father of Evolution [or Whatever] does not exist? never existed? never wrote anything? never did anything?

Do I give equal airtime to abandoned theories, then claim they should throw the baby out with the bathwater? for example: throw out Combustion Theory because Phlogiston Theory once existed?

Need I go on?

Opdrey · Feb 24, 2022

AV1611VET said:
Do I try to get scientists to abandon their belief in their calling?

By telling science to "take a hike"? By consistently ONLY focusing on the bad things? I don't know. Are you?

Do you see me saying their Father of Evolution [or Whatever] does not exist? never existed? never wrote anything? never did anything?

Are you of the opinion that there is no evidence for Darwin's existence?

Do I give equal airtime to abandoned theories, then claim they should throw the baby out with the bathwater? for example: throw out Combustion Theory because Phlogiston Theory once existed?

Well, actually you kinda do. Look at your bizarre obsession with Pluto.

Need I go on?

Maybe you need to re-read what I actually WROTE and address THOSE points.

I don't see any problem with you having your faith. That's great. I hope you never lose it. But when you spend YEARS telling science to "take a hike" and obsessing on the bad things that have happened as technology advances while NEVER giving credit for the advances it kinda feels like you are pretty anti-science. But then you think you are fooling people by telling them you think "scientists are a blessing by God."

Who kicks a dog and tells people that they love dogs?

AV1611VET · Feb 24, 2022

Opdrey said:
I don't see any problem with you having your faith. That's great. I hope you never lose it. But when you spend YEARS telling science to "take a hike" and obsessing on the bad things that have happened as technology advances while NEVER giving credit for the advances it kinda feels like you are pretty anti-science. But then you think you are fooling people by telling them you think "scientists are a blessing by God."

1. You're new around here, and you don't know me well enough to say this.

2. I have more friends than you have posts.

3. Why did you word it like you did? why didn't you say, "You think you are fooling people by telling them science can take a hike, when in reality you claim scientists are blessings from God"?

Who are you trying to kid, Opdrey? I can tell which side of the bread your butter is on.

Or are you just parroting others?

sjastro · Feb 24, 2022

AV1611VET said:
1. You're new around here, and you don't know me well enough to say this.

2. I have more friends than you have posts.

3. Why did you word it like you did? why didn't you say, "You think you are fooling people by telling them science can take a hike, when in reality you claim scientists are blessings from God"?

Who are you trying to kid, Opdrey? I can tell which side of the bread your butter is on.

Or are you just parroting others?

You are pathologically anti-science period.
By claiming scientists are blessings from God conjures up visions of God handing out brains to those that were first in line and anointing them as scientists.
I've known a few scientists in my time some absolutely brilliant others dull as dishwater but the common denominator all had to work hard to reach their respective fields.

AV1611VET · Feb 24, 2022

sjastro said:
I've known a few scientists in my time some absolutely brilliant others dull as dishwater but the common denominator all had to work hard to reach their respective fields.

You mean like when God calls someone to a mission field, and it takes years of deputation to get to 100% support?

sjastro · Feb 24, 2022

AV1611VET said:
You mean like when God calls someone to a mission field, and it takes years of deputation to get to 100% support?

I will give an example close to heart; my niece.
She dropped out of school at the age of 12 and was an alcoholic from the age of 13.
After drying out in a rehabilitation centre she turned her life around went back to school.
After school she eventually got her PhD in Social Work.
Even though Social Work is technically a 'soft' science she got her PhD is less than 3 years which is extremely rare in any academic field and an indication of the dedication and hard work she put in.

Over coming her personal demons and getting a PhD in the long term was through free will and not a blessing from God.

AV1611VET · Feb 24, 2022

sjastro said:
Over coming her personal demons and getting a PhD in the long term was through free will and not a blessing from God.

And I am very happy for your niece.

Good for her!

But did it occur to you that, while she was going through her ordeal, there were those praying for her?

To God be the glory!

sjastro · Feb 24, 2022

AV1611VET said:
And I am very happy for your niece.

Good for her!

But did it occur to you that, while she was going through her ordeal, there were those praying for her?

To God be the glory!

If there were prayers it wouldn't have come from the parents as both are staunch atheists.
My niece is also an atheist but during her therapy she was asked to nominate a guardian angel.
These guardian angels can be anyone and being an atheist she selected her grandmother (my mother).
These guardian angels evidently play a role in AA and are used as a source for inspiration.

Hans Blaster · Feb 24, 2022

AV1611VET said:
Thanks for the suggestion!

Look what I found on it:

MACROEVOLUTION

COSMIC EVOLUTION

GENUS = KIND

VIOXX = Another part of AV's vindictive campaign against scientists.

AV1611VET · Feb 24, 2022

Hans Blaster said:
VIOXX = Another part of AV's vindictive campaign against scientists.

Or these?

AV1611VET said:
Like the Titanic? Hindenburg? Thalidomide? Challenger? Deepwater Horizon? Three Mile Island? the South Fork Dam? the Florida International University walkway? Apollo I? Chernobyl? L'Aquila? the Edmund Fitzgerald?

Hans Blaster · Feb 24, 2022

AV1611VET said:
1. You're new around here, and you don't know me well enough to say this.

It doesn't really take that long to figure out. Particularly if you read some old threads. (I had it figured out before I even joined since I read this board for about a year first.)

AV1611VET said:
2. I have more friends than you have posts.

Cool. Just remember I'm not one of them.

AV1611VET · Feb 24, 2022

Hans Blaster said:
Just remember I'm not one of them.

Here's something hilarious one of my atheist friends made up for Dad and I:

Post 85

Hans Blaster · Feb 24, 2022

AV1611VET said:
Here's something hilarious one of my atheist friends made up for Dad and I:

Post 85

You don't act like someone I would want as a friend. Your little dialogue is irrelevant to the topic.

AV1611VET · Feb 24, 2022

Hans Blaster said:
You don't act like someone I would want as a friend.

To each his own.

Hans Blaster said:
Your little dialogue is irrelevant to the topic.

It demonstrates friendship and tolerance with those who disagree with each other.

To a point, I might add.

I even started a thread to [sorta] ridicule him at one point, and he took it well:

Requesting updates from CabVet and Split Rock.

Opdrey · Feb 25, 2022

AV1611VET said:
1. You're new around here, and you don't know me well enough to say this.

And I'm unable to read your past posts? You see, I make my living as a researcher. That's what I do.

Perhaps you could try that some time.

2. I have more friends than you have posts.

And do you have a brand new bicycle that Santa brought you last year too?

3. Why did you word it like you did? why didn't you say, "You think you are fooling people by telling them science can take a hike, when in reality you claim scientists are blessings from God"?

Because it sounds like you are trying to have it both ways. You seem to be of the opinion in many of your posts you can simultaneously slag science but somehow praise scientists.

Who are you trying to kid, Opdrey? I can tell which side of the bread your butter is on.

You sit at the Right hand of the Father and you come to judge the quick and the dead.

Or are you just parroting others?

You know, it IS possible that one can form a negative opinion about your view of science by simply reading YOUR WORDS, right?

Unlike some, I don't necessarily need someone to tell me what to think.

As I said (and you ignored) your faith is yours and that's great. But you put yourself out here for interaction. You express points about science (my area) and you talk a big game while showing almost zero skill or ability in it. I've read some of your posts where you take others to task for their lack of biblical knowledge when they disagree with the Bible...but again, there's that whole Luke 6:31 thing.

AV1611VET · Feb 25, 2022

Opdrey said:
You see, I make my living as a researcher. That's what I do.

Missed this one, didn't you?

Science as a Blessing

Opdrey · Feb 25, 2022

AV1611VET said:
Missed this one, didn't you?

Science as a Blessing

AV said:
1. To seek out and find "Easter eggs" that He embedded in the earth at creation.

So you want science to confirm your beliefs but you dislike it when it fails to do so. Got it.

My favorite example is the discovery of oil. God embedded oil in the earth during the Creation Week, to be discovered when the right time came. Other discoveries, such as minerals and whatnot make our lives better and keep technology moving forward.

Except everything about oil is pretty much going to violate the book of Genesis. The reason you have oil you can afford is because geologists ultimately gave up a young earth concept long ago. That was when geology was able to flourish.

If the geologists had kept doing things that you approved of you wouldn't have oil, you wouldn't have most of the minerals that make the computer work, none of that.

3. Science pursued to its ultimate end will lead to God.

As long as science keeps asking questions with an open mind, it will eventually find the ultimate Truth. Kind of a long way to go about it, but we get a lot of cool Easter Eggs in the process!

Unfortunately science as eliminated a LOT of things that were formerly thought to be only explicable by God. "God of the Gaps" makes God smaller and smaller.

You CLEARLY don't want science to approach questions with an open mind. You put a GIANT LOCK on the doors that might fail to find God.

4. Science can be fun!

Especially for those who are using it to further God's will.

Your understanding of science seems limited to junior high school. Yeah, it IS fun. But it's also a discipline. A very harsh mistress of logic and inference. The very things you seem to really dislike about science are what grown-up scientists deal with all the time.

Enjoy science! Yes! But you aren't in a position to sit in judgement of science qua science.

It's when science goes up against the Bible, that I have an issue with it.

...and there it is. The limit you put on science that, by definition, is the most anti-science thing you could have said.

By your fruit we know you.

AV1611VET · Feb 25, 2022

Opdrey said:
By your fruit we know you.

If you want to talk yourself out of understand me, chief, that's your prerogative.

You think what you want to think; just don't expect me to agree.

As I said, I'm pro-science to a point, and anti-science the rest of the way.

And the Bible is the fulcrum.

If that makes me an enemy of academia, then so be it.

Academia has a zero-tolerance for those who disagree with them on principle, and I disagree with them on principle.

To a point.

And for the record, I'm not a YEC.

And the fact that geologists "ultimately gave up a young earth concept long ago" has nothing to do with finding oil.

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