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Is science a metanarrative?

dms1972

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Probably in my late teens / early twenties I began encountering some of the ideas and theories of postmodernism. It was an extremely difficult time for me not least on an intellectual level. Although I didn't study postmodernism in great depth several of the ideas got a hold of me, and challenged my worldview. Additionally I was short on people who really understood what I was grappling with. Now I have had a few years, and with the benefit of the Internet I can search and find other material to confer with some of the stuff I accepted somewhat uncritically back then.

So to get to the point, one of the ideas of Lyotard the French philosopher spoke about was "metanarratives". These are grand narratives or big stories that were not always critically examined in the modern era. Its worth saying at this point I don't take the view that we have passed entirely from modernity into postmodernity. But leaving that aside. Lyotard in his influential book The Postmodern Condition (1979) spoke of Science in terms of a metanarrative. Later he said what he said on that subject was the worst part of his book. This is important because some times these ideas persist.

An alternative view is that Science comprises of a lot of smaller narratives. Think of the story of Electricity - you could probably trace that from the discovery of the electrical properties of amber (credited to the Greek philosopher Thales). The story of Bakelite is another smaller one. Here was a substance that for a while defied invention, but when it was found how to process it, it became used very widely in manufacturing (old wirelesses for instance, but many other things). So it seems like there are lots of smaller stories when it comes to Science or the sciences (and Technology).

Nevertheless Rene Descartes did usher in an era with his Meditations that contributed and no doubt (no pun intended) influenced the intellectual climate in the centuries that followed. Descartes is very interesting when you read some of the biographical accounts - particularly Karl Stern's portrait and discussion of him in The Flight from Woman is worth reading. Descartes philosophy however is notoriously problematic when pushed beyond circumscribed limits, when to use Stern's words "methods become mentalities" - sometimes refered to as a Cartesian blight in the modern world (on this William Barratt's book From Descartes to the Computer is another good read. I'll maybe quote a bit in a later post if there is interest in the thread.)

So I don't want this to become TLDR. To sum up then Lyotard in response to criticism said The Postmodern Condition was his worst book, but even so some of concerns were quite valid.

It seems though today that some pin their hopes on science or the sciences gradually solving many of the world's problems. I think this is unduly optimistic, and fails to see that some discoveries can be for both good and ill - e.g. discoveries with the atom, have been harnessed to produce nuclear power, but also nuclear weapons. Psychology can be used to understand people and their problems, but also perhaps to make propaganda more effective. So this optimism seems to me naive. Additionally matters of the heart and of society need to be addressed within an approach appropriate to them, which recognises the potential for paradoxes, and not treat these areas of study reductionistically.

Any one want to add any further thoughts.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Probably in my late teens / early twenties I began encountering some of the ideas and theories of postmodernism. It was an extremely difficult time for me not least on an intellectual level. Although I didn't study postmodernism in great depth several of the ideas got a hold of me, and challenged my worldview. Additionally I was short on people who really understood what I was grappling with. Now I have had a few years, and with the benefit of the Internet I can search and find other material to confer with some of the stuff I accepted somewhat uncritically back then.

So to get to the point, one of the ideas of Lyotard the French philosopher spoke about was "metanarratives". These are grand narratives or big stories that were not always critically examined in the modern era. Its worth saying at this point I don't take the view that we have passed entirely from modernity into postmodernity. But leaving that aside. Lyotard in his influential book The Postmodern Condition (1979) spoke of Science in terms of a metanarrative. Later he said what he said on that subject was the worst part of his book. This is important because some times these ideas persist.

An alternative view is that Science comprises of a lot of smaller narratives. Think of the story of Electricity - you could probably trace that from the discovery of the electrical properties of amber (credited to the Greek philosopher Thales). The story of Bakelite is another smaller one. Here was a substance that for a while defied invention, but when it was found how to process it, it became used very widely in manufacturing (old wirelesses for instance, but many other things). So it seems like there are lots of smaller stories when it comes to Science or the sciences (and Technology).

Nevertheless Rene Descartes did usher in an era with his Meditations that contributed and no doubt (no pun intended) influenced the intellectual climate in the centuries that followed. Descartes is very interesting when you read some of the biographical accounts - particularly Karl Stern's portrait and discussion of him in The Flight from Woman is worth reading. Descartes philosophy however is notoriously problematic when pushed beyond circumscribed limits, when to use Stern's words "methods become mentalities" - sometimes refered to as a Cartesian blight in the modern world (on this William Barratt's book From Descartes to the Computer is another good read. I'll maybe quote a bit in a later post if there is interest in the thread.)

So I don't want this to become TLDR. To sum up then Lyotard in response to criticism said The Postmodern Condition was his worst book, but even so some of concerns were quite valid.

It seems though today that some pin their hopes on science or the sciences gradually solving many of the world's problems. I think this is unduly optimistic, and fails to see that some discoveries can be for both good and ill - e.g. discoveries with the atom, have been harnessed to produce nuclear power, but also nuclear weapons. Psychology can be used to understand people and their problems, but also perhaps to make propaganda more effective. So this optimism seems to me naive. Additionally matters of the heart and of society need to be addressed within an approach appropriate to them, which recognises the potential for paradoxes, and not treat these areas of study reductionistically.

Any one want to add any further thoughts.

Science itself is not a meta-narrative, but often "scientism" leads to one. Other than that, I have nothing to add to your nice OP post, DMS.
 
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dms1972

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Thanks. Yes, I thought about "scientism" when I was posting but I didn't want my post to go in too many directions. Thats pretty much what CS Lewis was talking about in his books The Abolition of Man, and his novel That Hideous Strength.
 
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timf

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Science began when man set out to document that way in which God's creation worked. Science gained in credibility as it grew more able to describe the handiwork of the creator. It was then used to support demonic ideas as a sort of stolen valor masquerade.

Consider psychology as a "science". Many would object to saying that all psychology was wrong. However, if one considers that of all the various theories of human behavior put forth, none includes the concept of sin, it is surprising that psychological "remedies" are only as bad as random chance.

Evolution can be reduced to saying "Nothing existed and then it blew up and became everything which then organized itself into us." This was added to "science" to discredit God. It was an interesting tactic by Satan to hijack what God had done calling it science and then add to it that which attacks God.
 
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stevevw

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Probably in my late teens / early twenties I began encountering some of the ideas and theories of postmodernism. It was an extremely difficult time for me not least on an intellectual level. Although I didn't study postmodernism in great depth several of the ideas got a hold of me, and challenged my worldview. Additionally I was short on people who really understood what I was grappling with. Now I have had a few years, and with the benefit of the Internet I can search and find other material to confer with some of the stuff I accepted somewhat uncritically back then.

So to get to the point, one of the ideas of Lyotard the French philosopher spoke about was "metanarratives". These are grand narratives or big stories that were not always critically examined in the modern era. Its worth saying at this point I don't take the view that we have passed entirely from modernity into postmodernity. But leaving that aside. Lyotard in his influential book The Postmodern Condition (1979) spoke of Science in terms of a metanarrative. Later he said what he said on that subject was the worst part of his book. This is important because some times these ideas persist.

An alternative view is that Science comprises of a lot of smaller narratives. Think of the story of Electricity - you could probably trace that from the discovery of the electrical properties of amber (credited to the Greek philosopher Thales). The story of Bakelite is another smaller one. Here was a substance that for a while defied invention, but when it was found how to process it, it became used very widely in manufacturing (old wirelesses for instance, but many other things). So it seems like there are lots of smaller stories when it comes to Science or the sciences (and Technology).

Nevertheless Rene Descartes did usher in an era with his Meditations that contributed and no doubt (no pun intended) influenced the intellectual climate in the centuries that followed. Descartes is very interesting when you read some of the biographical accounts - particularly Karl Stern's portrait and discussion of him in The Flight from Woman is worth reading. Descartes philosophy however is notoriously problematic when pushed beyond circumscribed limits, when to use Stern's words "methods become mentalities" - sometimes refered to as a Cartesian blight in the modern world (on this William Barratt's book From Descartes to the Computer is another good read. I'll maybe quote a bit in a later post if there is interest in the thread.)

So I don't want this to become TLDR. To sum up then Lyotard in response to criticism said The Postmodern Condition was his worst book, but even so some of concerns were quite valid.

It seems though today that some pin their hopes on science or the sciences gradually solving many of the world's problems. I think this is unduly optimistic, and fails to see that some discoveries can be for both good and ill - e.g. discoveries with the atom, have been harnessed to produce nuclear power, but also nuclear weapons. Psychology can be used to understand people and their problems, but also perhaps to make propaganda more effective. So this optimism seems to me naive. Additionally matters of the heart and of society need to be addressed within an approach appropriate to them, which recognises the potential for paradoxes, and not treat these areas of study reductionistically.

Any one want to add any further thoughts.
I find it hard to get my head around postmodernism. There are so many definitions. As these meta narratives are basically words or stories told as a sort of reality that happens. I think primarily postmodernism is the evolution of critical modernism to the point of relativism and even nihilism. .

Postmodernism goes beyond rational criticism to question and reject all truths and even objective facts. We have seen this with how facts are in how the person sees it. Or turning facts into hate speech and the like. Or how subjective identity can trump objective reality.

Primarily I think post modernism is defined as (self referential truths). In some ways the subjective in the form of experiences and feelings is the new factual reality trumping all other truths and facts. Including the meta narratives and the Canons of western literature and science itself. An alternative reality that trumps all other realities.

But now I think we may be entering post, postmodernism. It seems we are moving beyond the idea that words, fake news, narratives actually create reality. We have seen how the words and narratives actually don't matchup to lived reality and I think more and more people are catching on.

They are questioning or fact checking on the spot and calling out the reasoning and whether it is the reality. But now theres an arm wrestle as to what will be the next period of thought and reality. But I think its too late.

Social media is the perfect vehicle for creating alternative narratives and realities.
 
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