IS PREDESTINATION BIBLICAL ?

[John tower]

Ephesians 1(4): According as he hath chosen us before the foundation of the world . : Acts 13(48) : As many as were ordained to eternal life believed : John 13(18: I speak not of you all , I know whom I have chosen : etc , etc : Is predestination biblical ? ?

 

[SkyWriting]

Ephesians 1(4): According as he hath chosen us before the foundation of the world . : Acts 13(48) : As many as were ordained to eternal life believed : John 13(18: I speak not of you all , I know whom I have chosen : etc , etc : Is predestination biblical ? ?

Lets check!
58 Bible verses about Predestination - Knowing Jesus – Bible

 

[Heart2Soul]

Ephesians 1(4): According as he hath chosen us before the foundation of the world . : Acts 13(48) : As many as were ordained to eternal life believed : John 13(18: I speak not of you all , I know whom I have chosen : etc , etc : Is predestination biblical ? ?

Well you just quoted scripture so that makes it biblical...lol....do you mean is it a mistranslation?

 

[Dave L]

I believe God created all for his glory. This includes the universe, the movements of the planets, the cause and effect relationships emanating from creation that determine our thoughts and the choices we make.

The Westminster Confession wrote of this nearly 400 years ago saying: Chapter 3:1

I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeable ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

Westminster Assembly. Westminster Confession.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Ephesians 1(4): According as he hath chosen us before the foundation of the world . : Acts 13(48) : As many as were ordained to eternal life believed : John 13(18: I speak not of you all , I know whom I have chosen : etc , etc : Is predestination biblical ? ?

Yes, it is part of God's doctrine and it is found in the Bible.

 

[Uber Genius]

Here is a helpful book that examines four different views:

https://www.amazon.com/Predestination-Free-Will-Sovereignty-Freedom/dp/0877845670

The Bible is filled with passages that require free will on the part of the audience.

Secondly the determinism required by Calvinism seems to make no account of the 1000s of accounts of free will. Thirdly, although it can state that "God is not the author of sin, on Calvinism it is hard to how see how God's sovereignty as a function of his might and control can allow for sin. Either it is God's will or it is not. We see a world filled with things that God abhors, so both inductively and abductively we find strong determinism found in Calvin to be incoherent.

Molinism seems to explain how God could create a world with free agents and also know that that world would result in accomplishing God's plan.

Predestination is a function of human free will accepting the truth of the gospel and freely choosing to follow the influence of the Holy Spirit. But God predestines worlds on this view. Once God actualizes (creates) a world then everything he's a free agents do will come to pass.

God's knowledge is prior to the events as a function of his omniscience but logically caused by the free choices of humans.

 

[Thomas Bagley]

I don't think any Christian denomination that calls the Bible the inerrant Word of God can deny predestination. It is plainly taught. The Bible goes into great detail of explanation of it in by St. Paul in Romans and Ephesians.

 

[Hawkins]

Predestination is an ancient Jewish concept. The Essenes believe in absolution predestination with no freewill. The Sadducees believe in absolute freewill but no predestination. The Pharisees believe in partial freewill and partial predestination.

To me it all boils down to whether humans possess a correct conception about what predestination is which I don't think so.

I think that predestination is not about how God dictates our fate. It's about that He already knew who we are from the very beginning before the creation. However it's not legitimate to bring us to Heaven simply because God knows who we are. A fair final judgment is needed for each of us to be deemed righteous and for God to bring us to Heaven legitimately. In effect, we are all saved in a way how God knew before hand, that's what predestination is to humans.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Well you just quoted scripture so that makes it biblical...lol....do you mean is it a mistranslation?

You get to choose yourself.

(Scripture never violates God's Gift of free will, not even with predest......)

 

[Dave L]

You get to choose yourself.

(Scripture never violates God's Gift of free will, not even with predest......)

Did you ever consider we freely choose what we want and therefore incur responsibility for our sins. But God controls the reasons we base our choices on. Our will always responds to the reasons God uses to control us according to what he planned.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Close, perhaps, but no cigar.

Did you ever consider we freely choose what we want and therefore incur responsibility for our sins. But God controls the reasons we base our choices on. Our will always responds to the reasons God uses to control us according to what he planned.

 

[Dave L]

Close, perhaps, but no cigar.

You freely chose to write that for a reason. God uses the reasons we base our free choices on to control us.

“In Christ we too have been claimed as God’s own possession, since we were predestined according to the one purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will” (Ephesians 1:11)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

to control us.

Sorry, no.

Either freely serve Him, or not at all.

 

[Dave L]

Sorry, no.

Either freely serve Him, or not at all.

“You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that remains, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you.” (John 15:16)

 

[Uber Genius]

You freely chose to write that for a reason. God uses the reasons we base our free choices on to control us.

“In Christ we too have been claimed as God’s own possession, since we were predestined according to the one purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will” (Ephesians 1:11)

Here again we seem to be marionettes where God uses "reasons," as strings to control the outcome.

Why represent that as free will?

In this view the only way God achieves his will is through his controlling human agents. So did God use reasons to manipulate Adam to sin or was Adam free to not sin?

If the former then God is the efficient cause of sin and Adam is further down the causal chain. If the latter then God doesn't get what he wants and God doesn't get what he wants, even with big things such as sin.

In ether case Ephesians seems to box us into an incoherence of logic or of counterdicting aspects of God's nature.

Or we could examine molinism which makes Ephesians 1:11 true and God not being the author of sin and makes sense of the thousands of passages that require the reader to have free will found throughout the Old and New Testaments alike!

 

[Dave L]

Here again we seem to be marionettes where God uses "reasons," as strings to control the outcome.

Why represent that as free will?

In this view the only way God achieves his will is through his controlling human agents. So did God use reasons to manipulate Adam to sin or was Adam free to not sin?

If the former then God is the efficient cause of sin and Adam is further down the causal chain. If the latter then God doesn't get what he wants and God doesn't get what he wants, even with big things such as sin.

In ether case Ephesians seems to box us into an incoherence of logic or of counterdicting aspects of God's nature.

Or we could examine molinism which makes Ephesians 1:11 true and God not being the author of sin and makes sense of the thousands of passages that require the reader to have free will found throughout the Old and New Testaments alike!

This is how free will works in view of God's sovereignty. You choose what you want but he provides the reason you made the choice. And you freely and willingly choose according to his predetermined plan for your life.

 

[narrowgateevangelist]

1 Peter 1:2, Ephesians 1:3-14, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 Biblically explains the election from God.

Isaiah 55:8-9 Touches on how much higher God's ways are above man's ways. With the limited capacities man possesses. It's objectively impossible for man to measure it. Each individual, as well as man collectively through discourse. Aren't equipped for comprehension. The addition of the sin nature scar. Rebellion and internal shame, cloud man's mind so much. The attempt without Him. Is a laughable farce.

James 1:17 Explains that Gods Eternal objective goodness will never change. Lamentations 3:23 Highlights Gods observable mercy.

The Gospel accounts describing God walking among men. Jesus Messiah of Nazareth objectively showed God's goodness in mind boggling ways.

So, recapping inside myself. I think of myself in relation to God. As if my hardware is a 286 computer. With malware imparted to me. Though still able to replicate. Jesus entered the world to fix the malware.

God unveiled though, is like a supercomputer. With unimaginable computational power, so before even the first computer came off His assembly line. He already computed every problem that would occur before it did. That in no way theoretically makes Him the programmer of the malware. My observations, God bless.

 

[Uber Genius]

This is how free will works in view of God's sovereignty. You choose what you want but he provides the reason you made the choice. And you freely and willingly choose according to his predetermined plan for your life.

You are just stating over and over again what you believe.

I'm looking for a reason to believe that God controls the reasons.

Specifically did God cause Adam to sin by controlling the reasons that Adam chose to sin?

This does accomplish sovereignty to be sure but takes causal responsibility for sin out of Adam's hand and puts in God's hand.

Secondly, it equivocates on the word "choice," as rationality, and obedience on our part to God's commands become moot. God produce our choice.

No need for humans to learn God's revealed tru and mature into obedience. Those are extraneous attributes to our choice.

Finally I would ask readers to examine all four views of predestination and sovereignty to compare how they explain the scriptural data.

 

[Uber Genius]

1 Peter 1:2, Ephesians 1:3-14, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 Biblically explains the election from God.

Isaiah 55:8-9 Touches on how much higher God's ways are above man's ways. With the limited capacities man possesses. It's objectively impossible for man to measure it. Each individual, as well as man collectively through discourse. Aren't equipped for comprehension. The addition of the sin nature scar. Rebellion and internal shame, cloud man's mind so much. The attempt without Him. Is a laughable farce.

James 1:17 Explains that Gods Eternal objective goodness will never change. Lamentations 3:23 Highlights Gods observable mercy.

The Gospel accounts describing God walking among men. Jesus Messiah of Nazareth objectively showed God's goodness in mind boggling ways.

So, recapping inside myself. I think of myself in relation to God. As if my hardware is a 286 computer. With malware imparted to me. Though still able to replicate. Jesus entered the world to fix the malware.

God unveiled though, is like a supercomputer. With unimaginable computational power, so before even the first computer came off His assembly line. He already computed every problem that would occur before it did. That in no way theoretically makes Him the programmer of the malware. My observations, God bless.

Help us understand how this post relates to the question of how God predestinates, and how he gets his sovereign will accomplished?

 

[narrowgateevangelist]

Help us understand how this post relates to the question of how God predestinates, and how he gets his sovereign will accomplished?

The technical method of predestination. Is impossible for me to surmise. I acknowledge my vast shortcomings in relation to God Omniscient.

Man still possesses free will individually. God states that He knows every action I will ever take. God states He knew it even before He created anything.

Some Biblical prophesies have been fulfilled. Within the collection of books that make up the Bible. So from witnessing within itself. I conclude that God's knowledge is beyond far beyond mine.

Hope this explanation helps.