Is obeying the Law a sin?

[reddogs]

If we love Jesus Christ and keep his commandments which come from his eternal moral law, are we wrong to obey God's Law because we love him and want to follow what he wants for us. I am free to do whatever I want, so is it a sin or wrong if I choose to follow what Jesus taught by keeping his commandments, not because I am forced to do it, but because I love him and want to.

Many people say that after the law has accomplished its purpose of defining sin and pointing the sinner to Christ for His Grace and the Holy Spirits cleansing, it will no longer be needed in the experience of the believer. Is that true, once we are saved by grace we can never turn away? Or will we always have the freewill God gave us.

Will we always need the watchdog of the law to reveal when we stumble or sin and to point us back to Jesus to get back on track. Or are we perfect after getting grace and can sin no more, so no longer have need of the Law. Will there ever be a time when that mirror of correction, the Law of love and Gods precepts that they will not be needed in the spiritual growth experience and journey of the Christian.

The law points out sin, and grace saves from sin and its wages. The law is the will of God, and grace is the power to do the will of God. We do not obey the law in order to be saved but because by faith in Christ and His grace we are saved. Why would Jesus say to keep the commandments if we weren't given a way to do it.

Revelation 14:12. "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

The transformation of a christian happens with the help of the Holy Spirit, it allows us to follow the will of God and Jesus Christ testimonies. This is why they faith and the resulting fruits are necessary in the experience of a true believer. "Faith without works is dead." James 2:20. Jesus said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21.

Words and lip service are not the evidence of a transformation, and the fruits of the Holy Spirit are the evidence. The true evidence of the fruit or transformation is doing Gods will, and how does he commicate that will to us. Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15. And that is exactly what most people don't want to do, they want to say they love Christ but not do what He asks.


"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4.

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:3.

 

[Eila]

If we love Jesus Christ and keep his commandments which come from his eternal moral law, are we wrong to obey God's Law because we love him and want to follow what he wants for us. I am free to do whatever I want, so is it a sin or wrong if I choose to follow what Jesus taught by keeping his commandments, not because I am forced to do it, but because I love him and want to.

If you want to keep the customs of the Jews because you want to that is fine. If you feel you need to then it is wrong.

Many people say that after the law has accomplished its purpose of defining sin and pointing the sinner to Christ for His Grace and the Holy Spirits cleansing, it will no longer be needed in the experience of the believer. Is that true, once we are saved by grace we can never turn away? Or will we always have the freewill God gave us.

I believe we will always have free will to reject Christ.

Will we always need the watchdog of the law to reveal when we stumble or sin and to point us back to Jesus to get back on track.

The law was the tudor to point us to Christ. We are no longer under a tudor. We have the Holy Spirit living in us now.

Or are we perfect after getting grace and can sin no more, so no longer have need of the Law. Will there ever be a time when that mirror of correction, the Law of love and Gods precepts that they will not be needed in the spiritual growth experience and journey of the Christian.

Our spirits are perfect, but our actions slowly change as we mature. It is not that we no longer have need of the law - the law is inferior to having the Holy Spirit living in you. The mirror is now the Spirit. 2 Corinthians 3
"7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord."

The law points out sin, and grace saves from sin and its wages. The law is the will of God, and grace is the power to do the will of God. We do not obey the law in order to be saved but because by faith in Christ and His grace we are saved. Why would Jesus say to keep the commandments if we weren't given a way to do it.

The commandments you are referring to are the old covenant. We are able to keep the command in the new covenant to love because the love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts. Romans 5:5 " Such hope never disappoints or deludes or shames us, for God's love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit Who has been given to us."

Revelation 14:12. "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

The commandments here are not the 10 commandments. The guy who wrote Revelation is the same guy who wrote 1 John. The commandments are defined in 1 John 3 "23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment."

The transformation of a christian happens with the help of the Holy Spirit, it allows us to follow the will of God and Jesus Christ testimonies. This is why they faith and the resulting fruits are necessary in the experience of a true believer. "Faith without works is dead." James 2:20. Jesus said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21.

And what is his will?

1 John 3 "23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment."

Words and lip service are not the evidence of a transformation, and the fruits of the Holy Spirit are the evidence. The true evidence of the fruit or transformation is doing Gods will, and how does he commicate that will to us. Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15. And that is exactly what most people don't want to do, they want to say they love Christ but not do what He asks.

The fruit of the Spirit are not the 10 commandments.

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4.

Later in 1 John it defines those commandments: "23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment."

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:3.

Also in 1 John it defines the commands again in 1 John 4 "21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also."

1 John is not about the 10 commandments at all.

 

[reddogs]

His commandments from creation are to love God and to love your fellow man, the Law is a laying out and definging of what love is, and when you reject them, you reject Jesus Christ invitation to show love by following His Law which was from creation.

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Exodus 15:26
And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 2:3
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22
And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.


1 John 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.


1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Is there any doubt of the importance of loving God and loving man is it is the very embodiment of God and the Law he gives us....

 

[Eila]

His commandments from creation are to love God and to love your fellow man, the Law is a laying out and definging of what love is, and when you reject them, you reject Jesus Christ invitation to show love by following His Law which was from creation.

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Exodus 15:26
And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 2:3
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22
And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.


1 John 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.


1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Is there any doubt of the importance of loving God and loving man is it is the very embodiment of God and the Law he gives us....

Because you see the word "commandments" does not mean they are the 10 commandments. If those texts said 10 commandments instead of "commandments" then I would agree with you. A bulk of your quotes are from 1 John and 1 John defines the commandments as loving one another and believing in Jesus. He comes right out and says what the commandments are in his book.

 

[reddogs]

His love is where all the commandments come from, they all point to the same thing, Love God and Love your fellowman..........

 

[Eila]

His love is where all the commandments come from, they all point to the same thing, Love God and Love your fellowman..........

Where is the new covenant believer commanded to love God?

 

[reddogs]

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mark 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Luke 10:27
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Romans 8:39
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Eila]

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mark 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Luke 10:27
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

I agree these are all commands to love God, but this is not the new covenant yet. This was before the new covenant.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Yes, God's love is placed within us by the Holy Spirit, but this is not a command to love God.

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

This talks about people loving God, but it is not a command to love God.

Romans 8:39
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This is not a command to love God, but is talking about God's love for us.

There IS no command for the new covenant believer to love God. We have entered into a new relationship. Love does not need to be commanded. We love Him because He first loved us. Now we call Him "Daddy".

 

[freeindeed2]

I agree these are all commands to love God, but this is not the new covenant yet. This was before the new covenant.

Yes, God's love is placed within us by the Holy Spirit, but this is not a command to love God.

This talks about people loving God, but it is not a command to love God.

This is not a command to love God, but is talking about God's love for us.

There IS no command for the new covenant believer to love God. We have entered into a new relationship. Love does not need to be commanded. We love Him because He first loved us. Now we call Him "Daddy".

Thank you for that. I hadn't thought of it that way before. But it makes sense, especially when you said 'we love Him because He first loved us.' God is love and he lives in our innermost parts. We are only able to love (agape) because HE lives in us. Cool!

 

[reddogs]

If we love Jesus we love God, they are one and the same, if you dont love God there is a disconnect in the understanding of what Jesus is telling you........

 

[freeindeed2]

If we love Jesus we love God, they are one and the same, if you dont love God there is a disconnect in the understanding of what Jesus is telling you........

The Holy Spirit is FULLY GOD and he lives in the believer, producing HIS good fruit. Guess what the first fruit is (and most important)? LOVE! We love because he loved us first. Love is a fruit of the Spirit. No Spirit=No Love!

 

[reddogs]

So you point is by excluding God from our love we are rejecting Jesus and also the Holy Spirit...

 

[freeindeed2]

So you point is by excluding God from our love we are rejecting Jesus and also the Holy Spirit...

No, my point is that you CANNOT love (agape) God, or your neighbor, unless the Spirit lives in you.

 

[Sleaker]

Back to the OP, no it's not a sin to try and follow the Law as long as you do it knowing that it doesn't make you more Righteous, more holy, or more 'saved.' The Law doesn't make someone these things because our holiness, our Righteousness and us being saved is not based on us following the Law.

But.... and a very large But. One should not simply throw out the commandments, because God did make them, and it is them that point to Christ. I can say that attempting to follow the Law as a means to draw closer to God is prefectly alright. If following the Law allows you to hear the Holy Spirit more then by all means follow the Law.

Remember the first commandment begins with "Hear O Israel..." without hearing God you can't obey, without obedience you get Hebrews 4 and 1 Corinthians 10.

 

[Eila]

Back to the OP, no it's not a sin to try and follow the Law as long as you do it knowing that it doesn't make you more Righteous, more holy, or more 'saved.' The Law doesn't make someone these things because our holiness, our Righteousness and us being saved is not based on us following the Law.

I agree that it is not a sin to follow the law unless in so following the law your trust is in yourself. If you do the things in the law because you want to and not because you think they are required or because you expect to get credit for them then that is fine. I think though that many who do follow the law do so because they believe it is required and they want others to follow the law. A person who is following the law soley because they want to will not care if their Christian brother or sister is keeping parts of the law. When it comes right down to it the only righteousness we have when we stand before the Father is Jesus'. Law-keeping means nothing regarding salvation.

But.... and a very large But. One should not simply throw out the commandments, because God did make them, and it is them that point to Christ. I can say that attempting to follow the Law as a means to draw closer to God is prefectly alright. If following the Law allows you to hear the Holy Spirit more then by all means follow the Law.

The old covenant commands are not for us. Because we are under the new covenant doesn't mean we throw out the commands to the Israelites, but those commands are helpful to look at in how they shadow the reality. Personally, I don't see any rational to follow the shadow to draw near to God. The shadows were all about external rules. Following those rules do nothing of themselves. Now, if the new covenant believer celebrates Passover thinking about the reality of Our Passover Lamb then it is a different story.

 

[Sleaker]

Have you ever followed the Law as a means to hear God more clearly? or to draw closer to him?

Also, Pauls states that he will Follow the Law to be able to bring the Gospel to those under the law.. This is quite an important thing to remember. If you want to be able to show those still under the Law that it is not completely necessary you must come to their place and love them in it. You can't sit on the outside and say well you don't need the Law anymore..

 

[Eila]

Have you ever followed the Law as a means to hear God more clearly? or to draw closer to him?

Following rules do nothing towards hearing God more clearly. It is the heart that is open toward God that matters. Whether you do works along side of that or not is not what matters, because it is all based on the heart open to God.

Also, Pauls states that he will Follow the Law to be able to bring the Gospel to those under the law.. This is quite an important thing to remember. If you want to be able to show those still under the Law that it is not completely necessary you must come to their place and love them in it. You can't sit on the outside and say well you don't need the Law anymore..

I think we have a different understanding of those texts. Paul was very clear on our relationship to the law. He was clear that we are dead to the law. Culturally he did Jewish things when around Jews and things of the law when around those who kept the law. But he was always clear of the position of the law. You cannot be married to the law and it's requirements and the Gospel at the same time.

When around SDAs on the Sabbath I aim to not do things around them that they would be offended by. When eating with SDAs I make sure that meat is either not served or at a separate place away from the rest of the food that is being dished up. You get the idea. There are plenty of things we can do to not offend those who believe they are under the law. However, we cannot compromise on the Gospel.

Romans 7 " 4Likewise, my brethren, you have undergone death as to the Law through the [crucified] body of Christ, so that now you may belong to Another, to Him Who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God."

 

[Sleaker]

Following rules do nothing towards hearing God more clearly. It is the heart that is open toward God that matters. Whether you do works along side of that or not is not what matters, because it is all based on the heart open to God.

But see, if I desire in my freedom to follow the Laws god had set out because they are Holy and as a means to get to know God more clearly then I am seeking in my heart to be closer to God. Which is exactly what you are referring to. Following the Law can be a way to give up your life for God.

I think we have a different understanding of those texts. Paul was very clear on our relationship to the law. He was clear that we are dead to the law. Culturally he did Jewish things when around Jews and things of the law when around those who kept the law. But he was always clear of the position of the law. You cannot be married to the law and it's requirements and the Gospel at the same time.

When around SDAs on the Sabbath I aim to not do things around them that they would be offended by. When eating with SDAs I make sure that meat is either not served or at a separate place away from the rest of the food that is being dished up. You get the idea. There are plenty of things we can do to not offend those who believe they are under the law. However, we cannot compromise on the Gospel.

Romans 7 " 4Likewise, my brethren, you have undergone death as to the Law through the [crucified] body of Christ, so that now you may belong to Another, to Him Who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God."

There's a big distinction here that I believe you are blurring. You can be free from the law and still follow the Law. Jesus stated that Loving your neighbor and Loving God was the fulfillment of the Law. We are dead to the Law in as much as we are no longer bound to it. Being bound to the Law means that if we don't follow the Law we die, but if we do we live. And we all know that we cannot keep the whole Law in ourselves.

This does not compromise the Gospel at all. and I don't think Paul would have only accomodated the people of the other groups. I think he actually lived with them and took on their way of life. And I believe this because Paul refers to himself with a very simple word: Slave. Would a slave follow something other than his master? No it would be forbidden in the household. Similarly I see Paul living under the authority of those he wishes to reach, which means in a Jewish setting, following their laws and customs.

The Law is Holy, there is nothing wrong with the Law, why then would it be a sin to follow the Law once we are free to do God's will? Isn't God's will written in the Law? Don't we Do the Law as we Love God?

If God wrote it and said it was Holy, why then must we distance ourselves from it, cut ourselves off like it's some alien thing that God hates because we are now "under grace." I'm not saying you need to keep every letter of the Law, I'm stating that the Law can help you see God more clearly, or why else did God give it in the beginning? Didn't Jesus say that all of scripture was given to testify of him, including the commandments and laws?

 

[Eila]

But see, if I desire in my freedom to follow the Laws god had set out because they are Holy and as a means to get to know God more clearly then I am seeking in my heart to be closer to God. Which is exactly what you are referring to. Following the Law can be a way to give up your life for God.

No, it isn't about following the law, but the heart. Someone's heart may be open to God while they are following the law though.

There's a big distinction here that I believe you are blurring. You can be free from the law and still follow the Law. Jesus stated that Loving your neighbor and Loving God was the fulfillment of the Law. We are dead to the Law in as much as we are no longer bound to it. Being bound to the Law means that if we don't follow the Law we die, but if we do we live. And we all know that we cannot keep the whole Law in ourselves.

We don't live because we keep the law. We live because He kept the law and lived a perfect life and died for us.

Romans 7 summarizes my view "6But now we are discharged from the Law and have terminated all intercourse with it, having died to what once restrained and held us captive. So now we serve not under [obedience to] the old code of written regulations, but [under obedience to the promptings] of the Spirit in newness [of life]."

This does not compromise the Gospel at all. and I don't think Paul would have only accomodated the people of the other groups. I think he actually lived with them and took on their way of life. And I believe this because Paul refers to himself with a very simple word: Slave. Would a slave follow something other than his master? No it would be forbidden in the household. Similarly I see Paul living under the authority of those he wishes to reach, which means in a Jewish setting, following their laws and customs.

Telling someone that they are under the Jewish law does compromise the Gospel. I don't see Paul ever telling anyone that they should obey the Jewish law. However, he took on the culture of those around them as he lived among them and shared the Gospel with them.

The Law is Holy, there is nothing wrong with the Law, why then would it be a sin to follow the Law once we are free to do God's will? Isn't God's will written in the Law? Don't we Do the Law as we Love God?

We were not set free from the law to go right back to it. What we have is so much better. We have the Spirit living in us guiding us.

If God wrote it and said it was Holy, why then must we distance ourselves from it, cut ourselves off like it's some alien thing that God hates because we are now "under grace." I'm not saying you need to keep every letter of the Law, I'm stating that the Law can help you see God more clearly, or why else did God give it in the beginning? Didn't Jesus say that all of scripture was given to testify of him, including the commandments and laws?

The law was given to point out sin. It was not given so we could see God more clearly. Jesus came to show us the Father.

2 Corinthians 3 describes the law as the ministry of death. Death came from the law. Yes, the law was glorious, but it is nothing compared to the glory we now have being led by the Spirit.

"7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord."

The light of the Gospel is veiled in the old covenant. It cannot be seen clearly unless that veil is stripped away. Only in Christ is the veil taken away.

 

[Sleaker]

No, it isn't about following the law, but the heart. Someone's heart may be open to God while they are following the law though.

I just said this... You're just repeating what I said in your own words..

We don't live because we keep the law. We live because He kept the law and lived a perfect life and died for us.

Romans 7 summarizes my view "6But now we are discharged from the Law and have terminated all intercourse with it, having died to what once restrained and held us captive. So now we serve not under [obedience to] the old code of written regulations, but [under obedience to the promptings] of the Spirit in newness [of life]."

Again I just said this. We don't live because of the Law we live because of Christ.

Telling someone that they are under the Jewish law does compromise the Gospel. I don't see Paul ever telling anyone that they should obey the Jewish law. However, he took on the culture of those around them as he lived among them and shared the Gospel with them.

We were not set free from the law to go right back to it. What we have is so much better. We have the Spirit living in us guiding us.



The law was given to point out sin. It was not given so we could see God more clearly. Jesus came to show us the Father.

2 Corinthians 3 describes the law as the ministry of death. Death came from the law. Yes, the law was glorious, but it is nothing compared to the glory we now have being led by the Spirit.

"7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord."

The light of the Gospel is veiled in the old covenant. It cannot be seen clearly unless that veil is stripped away. Only in Christ is the veil taken away.

I'm not talking about coming to a saving grace of God, I'm talking about walking in obedience to the Spirit. Why I show Paul as an example is not to point and show him as one who says we need to follow the Law, or that he preaches we must follow the Law. On the contrary. I show Paul as a slave to the Jew as he states in 1 Corinthians, because if he wants to persuade a Jew and be accepted by them he must first come to their level which includes taking on their Law. If you want to preach to a SDA about how they are free, first be as an SDA, you must take on their life.

Look Christ didn't make you free so you could be free to do anything you wanted. He made you free so you could choose whether you wanted to Obey or Disobey him. The Children of Israel were still set free from Egypt, but they disobeyed in the Wilderness and because of it they did not enter the Promised Land.

Yes it's about obeying the Spirit, but in obeying the Spirit there is nothing wrong with obeying Law. You're still free to obey the Law just like you are free to obey the Spirit. Obeying the Law does not bring death, attempting to gain salvation by obeying the Law only shows death. There is a huge difference between the two.

are you suggesting that it's ok to Murder someone because we are no longer under the Law?