Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?

[reddogs]

Here is a excellent excerpt from a sermon on the issue:

"..Jesus answers this for us: "And behold, one came and said unto Him, 'Good Master, what good thing shall I do that I may eternal life?' And He said unto him, 'Why callest thou Me good? there is none good but One, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.'4

Was Jesus telling the rich young ruler to do something meritorious when He told him to keep the commandments? Obviously not, for salvation is "not of works, lest any man should boast." But was Jesus telling this man plainly what the condition of salvation was? If we will enter into life, is it not necessary that we obey God? Is it not necessary that we keep His commandments?

We could discuss any number of Scripture passages that would echo the teaching of Jesus in the above incident, but let's focus just a bit more on this one. What does the Holy Spirit tell us through the writings of Ellen White?

Commenting on this very incident, Mrs. White writes "In reply to this question [what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?] Jesus told him that obedience to the commandments of God was necessary if he would obtain eternal life . . . . All should consider what it means to desire heaven, and yet to turn away because of the conditions laid down."5

White's language is helpful here....She freely uses words like "necessary" and "condition" when she speaks of salvation, yet nowhere in her writings can we find the idea that by fulfilling conditions one achieves merit, a share in their own salvation. A sampling of White's remarks regarding this illustrate the language that she felt very comfortable in using on this point:

• "Under the new covenant, perfect obedience is the condition of life."6
• "Could there be an excuse for disobedience, it would prove our heavenly Father unjust, in that He had given us conditions of salvation with which we could not comply."7
• "God works; but man must cooperate with Him in the great plan of salvation. The condition of eternal life is not merely to believe, but to do the words of God."8
• "Self-denial is the condition of salvation."9
• "Implicit obedience is the condition of salvation."10
• "You cannot enjoy His blessing without any action on your part."11
• "Obedience brings salvation, disobedience, ruin."12
• "The terms of salvation for every son and daughter of Adam are here outlined. It is plainly stated that the condition of gaining eternal life is obedience to the commandments of God."13
• "The great gift of salvation is freely offered to us, through Jesus Christ, on condition that we obey the law of God; and individually we are to accept the terms of life with the deepest humiliation and gratitude."14
• "In the gift of His only begotten Son He has ensured to us eternal life upon condition of our faith and obedience."15
• "Entire obedience to the law of God is the condition of salvation."16
• "The atonement of Christ has been made to save all the sons and daughters of Adam from the penalty of the violated law, on condition that they repent of their transgressions, and are converted through the exercise of faith in Christ."17
• "He does not save us by law, neither will He save us in disobedience to law."18

Friends, when a person believes in Jesus for salvation, they are choosing to obey. The gospel "is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth."23 At the close of his gospel, John states that these things are written "that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through His name."24 If we believe, we obey in the same act. If we obey we meet the condition. If we meet the condition, we have life through His name. I like how Ellen White puts it: "In the very act of duty, God speaks and gives His blessing."25

This is something that falls into what I call the "un-difficult" category. It is not hard to understand. It is not after the act of duty, God gives obedience; it is not before the act of duty, God gives obedience; but it is "in the very act of duty" that God speaks and gives His blessing. When we reach out, willing to obey, He reaches back, enabling us to obey. It is a simultaneous occurrence....."excerpts from sermon of same name by Larry Kirkpatrick.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Red--this is such a touchy subject. And frankly, a tough one. From the very beginning of the story of Adam and Eve, we find that their eternal life (given to them freely at their creation) was contingent on their OBEDIENCE to God's commands. God made it quite clear to them that if they should sin, that that wold be the day they would begin to die.

Then we have Jesus Himself reiterating this theme when He tells the young man in order to have eternal life, he must OBEY the commandments. He also tells us that IF we love Him, we WILL want to keep His commandments.

And then John tells us in Revelation that ONLY those who are going into the New Jerusalem are those who have kept God's commandments.

So it looks to me that eternal life, just as with all of God's other covenants, is conditional. After all, why would God grant eternal life to someone who would then use that life to continue to sin? The bible tells us that the 'offense' will NOT rise a second time. How can He make such a proclamation? Well, I think it's because those who have been given life, have already decided that obedience to God IS LOVE and they had set their renewed minds to the task. But we must always remember that it is NOT our efforts that causes the change in us. It is impossible for us to be anything but evil in our own strength. It is the POWER of God IN us, both to will and to do HIS good pleasure. What then is our part? FAITH AND WILLINGNESS.

We must labor to enter into that rest and strive to enter the straight gate. This is NOT earning the free gift of eternal life as some will surely argue. It is meeting the terms of the agreement to love and obey God. Just as is was in the beginning.

 

[ricker]

Red--this is such a touchy subject. And frankly, a tough one. From the very beginning of the story of Adam and Eve, we find that their eternal life (given to them freely at their creation) was contingent on their OBEDIENCE to God's commands. God made it quite clear to them that if they should sin, that that wold be the day they would begin to die.

Then we have Jesus Himself reiterating this theme when He tells the young man in order to have eternal life, he must OBEY the commandments. He also tells us that IF we love Him, we WILL want to keep His commandments.

And then John tells us in Revelation that ONLY those who are going into the New Jerusalem are those who have kept God's commandments.

So it looks to me that eternal life, just as with all of God's other covenants, is conditional. After all, why would God grant eternal life to someone who would then use that life to continue to sin? The bible tells us that the 'offense' will NOT rise a second time. How can He make such a proclamation? Well, I think it's because those who have been given life, have already decided that obedience to God IS LOVE and they had set their renewed minds to the task. But we must always remember that it is NOT our efforts that causes the change in us. It is impossible for us to be anything but evil in our own strength. It is the POWER of God IN us, both to will and to do HIS good pleasure. What then is our part? FAITH AND WILLINGNESS.

We must labor to enter into that rest and strive to enter the straight gate. This is NOT earning the free gift of eternal life as some will surely argue. It is meeting the terms of the agreement to love and obey God. Just as is was in the beginning.

I basically agree. The question that comes to my mind is, what is enough when it comes to keeping these commands. Remember that our righteousness is as filthy rags. I don't know of any Bible verses saying as long as we try hard not to sin and trust in Jesus we will be OK.
I'm not trying to argue, just would like an opinion to clear things up in my own mind.
God bless! Ricker

 

[Jon0388g]

I basically agree. The question that comes to my mind is, what is enough when it comes to keeping these commands. Remember that our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Ricker,

When you quote "our righteousness is as filthy rags" what is your understanding of that text?

Bearing in mind that those of us who advocate perfect obedience do not endorse self-righteousness in any way.

I don't know of any Bible verses saying as long as we try hard not to sin and trust in Jesus we will be OK.

How about this one?

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." 1 Corinthians 10:13


Hope that hasn't been taken out of context



Jon

 

[digdeep]

Obeidience IS the condition. PERFECT OBEDIENCE!! You must have sinless perfection!!!.
BUT NOW.....
JESUS HAS FULFILLED THE CONDITIONS FOR US!!! Praise God!! It's a gift of Grace to you.

"Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:3-5). Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness, and this the sinner owes to the law; but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way in which he can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ, and the Lord places the obedience of His Son to the sinner's account. Christ's righteousness is accepted in place of man's failure, and God receives, pardons, justifies, the repentant, believing soul, treats him as though he were righteous, and loves him as He loves His Son. This is how faith is accounted righteousness; and the pardoned soul goes on from grace to grace, from light to a greater light. He can say with rejoicing, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:5-7). {FW 101.1}



DD

 

[ricker]

Ricker,

When you quote "our righteousness is as filthy rags" what is your understanding of that text?

Bearing in mind that those of us who advocate perfect obedience do not endorse self-righteousness in any way.

Thanks!

How about this one?

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." 1 Corinthians 10:13


Hope that hasn't been taken out of context



Jon

Not out of context at all. This is a promise of help when we are tempted to sin. I don't see anything saying "trying hard" is enough. Is our effort in trying not to sin taken into consideration?
God bless! Ricker

 

[ricker]

Obeidience IS the condition. PERFECT OBEDIENCE!! You must have sinless perfection!!!.
BUT NOW.....
JESUS HAS FULFILLED THE CONDITIONS FOR US!!! Praise God!! It's a gift of Grace to you.

"Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:3-5). Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness, and this the sinner owes to the law; but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way in which he can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ, and the Lord places the obedience of His Son to the sinner's account. Christ's righteousness is accepted in place of man's failure, and God receives, pardons, justifies, the repentant, believing soul, treats him as though he were righteous, and loves him as He loves His Son. This is how faith is accounted righteousness; and the pardoned soul goes on from grace to grace, from light to a greater light. He can say with rejoicing, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:5-7). {FW 101.1}

DD

You have a firm grasp on the truths of salvation! Sinless perfection is commanded of us. Anything less would not stand before God. This is excellent!
God bless! Ricker

 

[sentipente]

You have a firm grasp on the truths of salvation! Sinless perfection is commanded of us. Anything less would not stand before God. This is excellent!
God bless! Ricker

By your definition does God possess sinless perfection, considering all the confusion that has arisen in the universe as a result of what He did in the beginning?

 

[ricker]

By your definition does God possess sinless perfection, considering all the confusion that has arisen in the universe as a result of what He did in the beginning?

I'm sure this question is open for debate mostly in agnostic and atheiistic circles. I myself don't presume to judge God. I trust His word.
A couple of books I have read you might like would be "Mere Christianity" by C S Lewis, and "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel.
God bless! Ricker

 

[sentipente]

I'm sure this question is open for debate mostly in agnostic and atheiistic circles. I myself don't presume to judge God. I trust His word.

You had best be certain that what you call His word actually is His word.

 

[Loveaboveall]

Some interesting verses I have been pondering lately...

Rev 19:7-8 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

John 3:19-20 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Do these verses have any bearing on the discussion?

 

[Jon0388g]

Not out of context at all. This is a promise of help when we are tempted to sin. I don't see anything saying "trying hard" is enough. Is our effort in trying not to sin taken into consideration?
God bless! Ricker

The text says "that ye may be able to bear it". You do not have to use effort to bear temptation? Or is it a walk in the park?

If so, I wish I was you. Sometimes I find amazingly hard to resist.



Jon



PS: "All our righteousness is but filthy rags" - didn't see your explanation of that text?

 

[ricker]

The text says "that ye may be able to bear it". You do not have to use effort to bear temptation? Or is it a walk in the park?

If so, I wish I was you. Sometimes I find amazingly hard to resist.



Jon



PS: "All our righteousness is but filthy rags" - didn't see your explanation of that text?

My understanding of the "filthy rags' statement is we will never be able to stand before God on our own. By taking the Gift of salvation offered by Jesus, we will be perfect through Him.

You have a point on the "bear it" point. We are told to flee from sin. Living a Christian life is not always easy and not always popular. You are right about this.

This being said, I will leave you with a couple of Bible verses that speak directly about our effort.
Romans 9

16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Galations 3

3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

I don't believe we are judged by how much effort we use, but by Jesus' righteousness imputed to us. As Christians we are instructed not to sin and to bear good fruit. Anyone led by the Spirit will indeed grow in grace and display these fruits, but they don't save him or her. We are not judged by our fruits
God bless! ricker

 

[digdeep]

Some interesting verses I have been pondering lately...

Rev 19:7-8 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

John 3:19-20 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Do these verses have any bearing on the discussion?

Yes, the fine linen was granted, meaning it's a gift.

"I will rejoice greatly in the LORD, My soul will exult in my God; For He has clothed me with garments of salvation, He has wrapped me with a robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with a garland, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels." Isa 61:10


The light that has come into the world is Jesus. To DO the truth is the BELIEVE in Him. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:16

now I will quote from Adventist Review the February 2008 World addition. The article is titled "Awesome Deimensions of Love". This quote is an explanation of john 3:16. "God's integrity is at stake. It's a contract. It does not come with complications and legalese. Rather, it's a simple, straightforward, declarative sentence: 'Whoever believes in Him...' It does not say 'Whoever believes and promises never to sin again.' Or, 'Whoever believes and lives the kind of life a good Christian should.' No, Jesus simply says, 'WHOEVER.' This means anybody---anybody and everybody who believes on Him."

That's Gospel. That's Good News.

Continuing with the quote: "Is this cheap grace? NO. We don't have a permission slip to live whatever life we please. The statement in John 3:16 is a statement of cause, a statement of process. We're saved through faith, by our belief - our trust - in Jesus Christ. PERIOD! Additions to this statement are unacceptable. Amendments to it are overruled. We must take it as it is: God loved the world and its creatures so much that He chose to give HIs Son so that anyone who makes the choice to believe will have everlasting life."

DD

 

[Jon0388g]

My understanding of the "filthy rags' statement is we will never be able to stand before God on our own. By taking the Gift of salvation offered by Jesus, we will be perfect through Him.

Indeed. The Bible says Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, to them that believe.

What I really had an issue with is using the text about our righteousness being "filthy rags" in order to detract from the necessity of obedience. That text does not negate our duty to press toward a righteous character and to "learn obedience", it simply repeats the well-known fact that of ourselves, our righteousness is filth.

You have a point on the "bear it" point. We are told to flee from sin. Living a Christian life is not always easy and not always popular. You are right about this.

This being said, I will leave you with a couple of Bible verses that speak directly about our effort.
Romans 9

You quoted Romans 9:16 - I thought you didn't like it when I pulled passages out of context????

If you read Romans 9:1-15, you will see that vs 16 is not referring to our efforts in striving against sin. It in fact refers to the Almighty who has "mercy on whom he has mercy", regardless of him that runneth, or him that willeth. Try again Rick

Galations 3

You quoted Galatians 3:3, from a strange translation I might add. The KJV translates:

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Galatians 3:3

Again. Context. Read the verse before:

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" Galatians 3:2

The works of the law will never attain to righteousness, otherwise, Christ died in vain (Galations 2:21). Paul is saying you cannot recieve the Spirit by works, never ever. Does Paul ever say we will not have to strive and persist in our fight against sin, in the verse you quoted, or anywhere else in Scripture?


Carefully consider this passage.

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider Him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin....If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?" Hebrews 12:1-7

The whole of Hebrews 11-12 exhorts us to run the race in striving against sin. If we did not have to be trained in obedience, then what would be the point of temptations? Why would satan bother us with trials if we have no bearing on salvation? The master deceiver knows that one sin cherished and unrepented is enough to close us from the kingdom of God.

I don't believe we are judged by how much effort we use, but by Jesus' righteousness imputed to us. As Christians we are instructed not to sin and to bear good fruit. Anyone led by the Spirit will indeed grow in grace and display these fruits, but they don't save him or her. We are not judged by our fruits
God bless! ricker

There is a lot here I disagree with.


Firstly, the righteousness of Christ is not only imputed to us, but is imparted also. This is the essence of the Gospel missing from the popular message - justification without the sanctification. The Sanctuary illustrates this without question. How can we wear the robe of Christ's righteousness if we are still rotten on the inside? We will not be changed from the inside out without our constant consent, constant faith. The vision of Joshua and the Angel in Zechariah illustrates this point.


Secondly, you say "we are not judged by our fruits." Whereas, Christ said "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." And many more passages prove otherwise. It is our works we are judged by. The books of record will show whether we have washed our robes in the blood of the Lamb, whether we are "accounted worthy". But, I don't really expect you to agree with me here. The Biblical evidence is there if you wish.


Jon

 

[RND]

Indeed. The Bible says Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, to them that believe.

What I really had an issue with is using the text about our righteousness being "filthy rags" in order to detract from the necessity of obedience. That text does not negate our duty to press toward a righteous character and to "learn obedience", it simply repeats the well-known fact that of ourselves, our righteousness is filth.




You quoted Romans 9:16 - I thought you didn't like it when I pulled passages out of context????

If you read Romans 9:1-15, you will see that vs 16 is not referring to our efforts in striving against sin. It in fact refers to the Almighty who has "mercy on whom he has mercy", regardless of him that runneth, or him that willeth. Try again Rick



You quoted Galatians 3:3, from a strange translation I might add. The KJV translates:

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Galatians 3:3

Again. Context. Read the verse before:

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" Galatians 3:2

The works of the law will never attain to righteousness, otherwise, Christ died in vain (Galations 2:21). Paul is saying you cannot recieve the Spirit by works, never ever. Does Paul ever say we will not have to strive and persist in our fight against sin, in the verse you quoted, or anywhere else in Scripture?


Carefully consider this passage.

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider Him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin....If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?" Hebrews 12:1-7

The whole of Hebrews 11-12 exhorts us to run the race in striving against sin. If we did not have to be trained in obedience, then what would be the point of temptations? Why would satan bother us with trials if we have no bearing on salvation? The master deceiver knows that one sin cherished and unrepented is enough to close us from the kingdom of God.





There is a lot here I disagree with.


Firstly, the righteousness of Christ is not only imputed to us, but is imparted also. This is the essence of the Gospel missing from the popular message - justification without the sanctification. The Sanctuary illustrates this without question. How can we wear the robe of Christ's righteousness if we are still rotten on the inside? We will not be changed from the inside out without our constant consent, constant faith. The vision of Joshua and the Angel in Zechariah illustrates this point.


Secondly, you say "we are not judged by our fruits." Whereas, Christ said "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." And many more passages prove otherwise. It is our works we are judged by. The books of record will show whether we have washed our robes in the blood of the Lamb, whether we are "accounted worthy". But, I don't really expect you to agree with me here. The Biblical evidence is there if you wish.


Jon

Nice! Jon, you sure you're only 19?

 

[Jon0388g]

Nice! Jon, you sure you're only 19?

Almost 20, actually


Jon

 

[RND]

Almost 20, actually


Jon

Wow! I am certainly impressed! Praise the Lord.

 

[ricker]

Indeed. The Bible says Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, to them that believe.

What I really had an issue with is using the text about our righteousness being "filthy rags" in order to detract from the necessity of obedience. That text does not negate our duty to press toward a righteous character and to "learn obedience", it simply repeats the well-known fact that of ourselves, our righteousness is filth.




You quoted Romans 9:16 - I thought you didn't like it when I pulled passages out of context????

If you read Romans 9:1-15, you will see that vs 16 is not referring to our efforts in striving against sin. It in fact refers to the Almighty who has "mercy on whom he has mercy", regardless of him that runneth, or him that willeth. Try again Rick



You quoted Galatians 3:3, from a strange translation I might add. The KJV translates:

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Galatians 3:3

Again. Context. Read the verse before:

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" Galatians 3:2

The works of the law will never attain to righteousness, otherwise, Christ died in vain (Galations 2:21). Paul is saying you cannot recieve the Spirit by works, never ever. Does Paul ever say we will not have to strive and persist in our fight against sin, in the verse you quoted, or anywhere else in Scripture?


Carefully consider this passage.

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider Him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin....If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?" Hebrews 12:1-7

The whole of Hebrews 11-12 exhorts us to run the race in striving against sin. If we did not have to be trained in obedience, then what would be the point of temptations? Why would satan bother us with trials if we have no bearing on salvation? The master deceiver knows that one sin cherished and unrepented is enough to close us from the kingdom of God.





There is a lot here I disagree with.


Firstly, the righteousness of Christ is not only imputed to us, but is imparted also. This is the essence of the Gospel missing from the popular message - justification without the sanctification. The Sanctuary illustrates this without question. How can we wear the robe of Christ's righteousness if we are still rotten on the inside? We will not be changed from the inside out without our constant consent, constant faith. The vision of Joshua and the Angel in Zechariah illustrates this point.


Secondly, you say "we are not judged by our fruits." Whereas, Christ said "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." And many more passages prove otherwise. It is our works we are judged by. The books of record will show whether we have washed our robes in the blood of the Lamb, whether we are "accounted worthy". But, I don't really expect you to agree with me here. The Biblical evidence is there if you wish.


Jon

Wow, enjoy your salvation by works. I myself will trust Jesus for salvation and let Him lead my life.

28Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

God bless! Ricker

 

[capnator]

If obedience was not necessary then why would repentance be a requirement? Why would God tell us to turn away from sin and then tell us we do not have to then live a life free from sin. We repent from all sin, so we are to live apart from all sin.

Saved from sin to live in sin? I think NOT.

Eph 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Salvation from our past sin is from faith and as has already been quoted our efforts to be free from sin is as filthy rags, also Jer 17:9The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

We don't have any strength to obey and yet there are many verses that say to love God is to obey him. Here's one Jhn 14:15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

How can we obey? When we are saved (Justification) our sins are removed by grace through faith, this is impossible for us to do and is a gift. The same thing happens in our walk (sanctification) we live in obedience and that is also a gift through faith.

Jam 2:20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jhn 15:4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Jhn 15:5I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

The fruits come from the vine, but there must be fruit or else

Jhn 15:2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

Salvation is necessary and is accomplished only through faith.

True works and obedience are necessary and are accomplished only through faith.