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Is my pastor's behavior appropriate?

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arunma

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Filly, everything you wrote suggests that this isn't really a big deal. I think your pastor is a bit foolish, because in today's sexually perverse society, everything is looked upon with suspicion. But it seems to me that he was only trying to be friendly.

As for the OCD issue, just remember that it isn't your pastor who saves you, it's God. If you are saved while at this church, and then notice that the church is ungodly, then that seems to me like sure evidence that you are saved. After all, Martin Luther was also saved while attending the then-ungodly Catholic Church. Does that negate his salvation?

And of course, part of being a Baptist is acknowledging that baptism does nothing to save us. Only God can save us.
 
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filly

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Stefan Davidovich said:
Would he kiss your wife on the cheek in front of you?

It strikes me as odd that this first occurred away from your presence...but of course I don't know nearly enough to really comment.

I don't know...this is the first time he's done it. Also, why do you think he leaves almost immediately after service is over? His house is about 100 yards from the church, and a couple of times (we've only been there 3 or 4 times) he's walking home before we've even left the parking lot. Just seems a little odd. Of course, there's only 30-40 people there, but I don't know...

Absolutely! I would also encourage you to talk further with Pastor George.

Welcome to the Baptist forum!! You will be in my prayers as you continue on your journey.

Who's Pastor George? And thanks for the welcome.
 
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filly

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Thanks, daveleau. There are two reasons I am not saved yet. The first is that I have a problem with "Believe in God and you will be saved." I don't think that I have enough belief to be saved. I am a very rational, methodical, analytical person, and these traits seem to be my undoing when it comes to believing in God. I simply can't get over the Genesis account and the Bible's timeline for our existence in this world compared to that of the scientific view of millions or billions of years. Honestly, this is the only thing holding me back (aside from the second reason which I don't have time at this moment to get into). If the Bible is without error, then the two timelines don't match up...at all. Am I just supposed to turn a blind eye and brush off all the scientific data? If I do so, then I don't feel I truly believe. And I can't ask Christ to save me if I have any reservations or doubts.
 
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arunma

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Perhaps you should check this website:

http://www.godandscience.org/

It's written by a Christian who's also a biologist, and he does a good job of harmonizing the creation account with science (he also believes that the earth is 4 billion years old).

Also, have you considered theistic evolution? Many blood-washed Christians believe in evolution. I personally don't believe in evolution, but it is possible to take the creation account figuratively and still have a saving faith in Jesus Christ. Of all the miracles in the Bible, the only one you have to believe is that Christ Jesus died on the cross to redeem you, and that God resurrected him on the third day.

By the way, I'm very glad to hear that despite some unbelief, you're still open to the Gospel. Please don't give up on Jesus!
 
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filly

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Give up? Oh, no, that couldn't be further from the truth.
 
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desert_island_1

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I have a very huggy pastor at my church. I really like him and he has been my pastor the whole time I have been going to his church (9 years this month) He only recently started hugging me because he feels he should know a person very well before he starts to hug them. I still do not get very good vibes from your pastor doing this just because you haven't known him very long.
 
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filly

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So I can be a Christian and still have questions/doubts about a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation? I believe God exists. I want to live my life in accordance with Him. I just don't know if I believe in the 6 days of creation. Scientific evidence refutes it, so I have a problem. This is one reason I feel I can't be saved. What are the "early man" fossils? I don't want to believe that we came from them. What are the other options? Are they totally different species, such as birds, fish, etc., but they just happen to very closely resemble human beings?
 
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jusluvm

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The church you have described sounds just like my church! Mostly "senior citizens" and everyone is really very familiar with each other. We truly are like family. Very blessed, indeed! I've been there for 25 years and we've had about 5 different pastors---most of them in their elder years---and I know I've been kissed by at least a couple of them.

I really feel that this kiss could have been just a reflexive thing from your pastor. If you haven't gotten any other bad signals, I'd forget it. If it was just reflex, it'll probably never happen again---or at least not for a long while. If it's actually a habit of his to do this, it'll probably happen regularly!

However, if you have gotten or do get any other signals that make you uncomfortable, that would be the time for concern. I'm just really sorry that this has even had to be an issue for you at your new church.

In the meantime, beware---us southern folk do like our huggin' and kissin'!
 
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Ginny

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filly said:
So I can be a Christian and still have questions/doubts about a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation?

filly....I love all of your questions....Jesus loves us when we come to Him "like a child"...I think your heart is very soft right now and you are a hair away from belonging to God and joining us all in Heaven one day.

We are always going to have questions, and we are always going to have doubts. The cause ... (his name is Satan, by the way). In fact, during this time you are going to have the most doubt and most questions. Satan knows you are so close to salvation and he does not want another person to become a threat to him and his goal of turning people away from Christ.


I realize that you are wanting science to match up with God b/c of the characteristics that you possess. I suggest that you ask God whole heartedly to speak to you and ask that He keep Satan away from you while you search for Jesus. He is standing at the door waiting to hear your knock.
Jesus is right there waiting for you.

Matthew 7:7
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

I have heard one pray....Jesus, I am looking for concrete evidence that you exist. I need to know that you are real. I believe you are but I need proof. I feel you are here and wanting me to accept you. Please help my unbelief and doubt. I want to know you but I do not know how. Will you show me? I know I need you as my Lord and Saviour.

I suggest you go and find a quiet place with no distractions. Ask God to clear your mind so that He can speak to you and you would hear Him. I beg you to do this. Your posting here was meant to be, I feel. Go to God...don't delay. Turn off your computer. He promises that He will come to you if you seek Him. I really feel burdened for you right now. Go to God and He will give you the answers you need. We can help direct you in the right direction, but only through Him will he assist in opening your heart for Him to come in.

 
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rural_preacher

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Psalm 46:10

"Be still, and know that I am God."

James 1:5

"If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him."



--
 
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arunma

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Filly, you can be a Christian and believe anything you want about the creation account. Heck, you don't need to believe in any part of the Old Testament, except that it points to Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us that whoever believes in Christ crucified and resurrected will be saved. The Gospel doesn't come with any strings. Faith in Jesus Christ is the gift of God, and it doesn't come from any works of the Law. Just believe in the Lord Jesus, and show your love for him by obeying his commandments.

Now, I personally believe that evolution is a false doctrine. But it certainly isn't a salvation issue. If I were to say that you had to believe in a specific doctrine, I would be guilty of legalism. Recieve Jesus, and you will be saved.
 
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novcncy

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Hi Filly. I think you already believe in God. Your rational, methodiacl, analytical approach to life has told you there is NO way that the universe can exist out of nothing. SOMEONE had to make it. I'll talk more on it in a miunute, but believing in God is simply agreeing to a fact, like the earth is round, ....it doesn't actually have anything to do with salvation. The devils also believe, and tremble.

A little bit on resolving the apparent discrepancies between "science" and the Bible. First, and most importantly, is figuring out who God is. If you believe He is a fallible, bumbling, incomptent, profane diety like Zeus or Jupiter or some other god, then you do indeed have a dilemma. On the other hand, if He is an omnipotent, omnipresence, omniscient God, then He can do anything He wants to. Our understanding does not limit God. So if He says something is a certain way, it is that way, whether or not we can understand it. I hear so many people when confronted with who God is, make a statement like "Well, I don't believe that is so, " etc. etc. Our belief does not shape reality. It reminds me of the general population of the "civilized" world in 1491. The science of the time supported the general consensus that the earth was flat. But science, and popular opinion, did not change the FACT that the world was round. Now science has indeed come a LONG LONG way since then, but it is still an example of how science is not infallible. We can improve it, but we will NEVER know all that there is to know. (Which, in itself, points to a creator!)

Secondly, once you realize that God can do whatever He deems necessary, whether or not we undertand it, I think you need to think about the possibility that God could have created the Earth with an apperance of age. The problem with "science" is that it is built on a premise that is impossible to prove, that the globe was originally featureless. Also, by discounting the Genesis account of a worldwide flood, no consideration is given to the impacts made on geology, fossils, etc, by the flood. Also, no consideration is given to the Genesis record that "God seperated the dry land from the seas". What exactly is that? What effect could the divine hand of God have on the geologic "record"! I wholeheartedly agree that had the earth started out perfectly flat, and had the flood never occured, then it would have taken millions and millions of years for things like mountains, canyons, etc. etc. to form. All I'm suggesting to you, is that perhaps that is how God created them. Look at Adam...God created Him as an adult, a fully matured human being. Why would He not have created the earth in a similar fashion?

So I've tried to show you how faith that God is who He says He is, is far more important that understanding WHY God is who He says He is. Somethings, you just have to believe, whether or not you understand them. A good example is when you fly on an airplane. You buy your ticket, show up to the airport, get on the plain, and wholeheartedly expect to land in Hawaii, or wherever it is you were headed. But do you understand exactly how the jet engines on a 747 work? Unless you're jet mechanic or aerospace engineer, I doubt you know how they work. Do you understand the mathematics and the physics involved in getting a machine weighing hundreds of thousands of pounds to climb tens of thousands of feet and transport you thousands of miles with precise accuracy? Probalby you do not understand all of these factors in intimate detail. But you have faith that the airplane will fly and that you will get where you're going, because the FAA or someone SAYS it will do those things. I could use lots of examples, but I hope that's sufficent to show you that you place your faith in fallible men every day. Yet you have difficulty placing your faith in a PERFECT, INFALLIBLE, ALL POWERFUL God? In fact, until you realize this, I don't know if you can actually be saved. I know that's pretty shocking, but follow me. Can anyone ever understand salvation? The atonement on the cross? The why of it all, why God would even consider redeeming man in the first place? Much less, the way it actually works? Why Jesus had to shed His blood? How that can actually pay for your sins? I promise you that you will NEVER understand all of these things, at least as long as you're here in your mortal body. But God says that is how it works, so you have to believe Him. That is part of what Paul is talking about when he says in 1 Corinthians 1:23 - but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block and unto the Greeks foolishness; The Greeks were a very intellectual culture, and because they couldn't logically resolve faith in Christ, it was foolishness. Don't fall into the same trap that has condemned billions, starting with Adam and Eve not understanding WHY God forbid them to eat the fruit. Realize that you need to be saved as soon as possible, and that salvation is based on you believing, having the faith, that God will do what He says He will do, and that His promise is not conditional on your comprehension. 2 Corinthians 6:2 - behold, now [is] the accepted time; behold, now [is] the day of salvation.

So to answer your question, yes, you should turn a blind eye to the "scientific" data, because as overwhelming as it may seem, it is still fallible, and it is built on fallible premises. God is infallible, and perfectly able to do exactly has He has said. You have accurately seen that if you can't trust that God is unable to make a mistake, then you can't trust Him to save you, and we are all doomed. I will pray for you. I think you are almost there, and I am very burdened to see you cast yourself and your future, lock, stock, and barrel, into the loving arms of your Saviour. He has promised that He will catch you, but do you believe Him?
 
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