Is my brother going to Hell?

[MyLordMySavior]

My brother believes in evolution, he believes the Bible is figurative[including Genesis, probably Noah's Ark, and Moses] and that it is really about taking a way a message then taking it literal. We debated and he his determining argument was that since monkeys and humans share 99.9% of DNA that that is proof that we share a common ancestor. He started screaming that he wins and no one can disprove that etc etc though I had plenty of arguments to put forth to refute it. He screamed, "Thats why 99.9% of scientists believe in Evolution! Because it's true!" And he started swimming and going under water (we were in the pool) while I screamed all my arguments at him using everything I could think of, evidence from scripture and also just science, but he wouldn't listen! I started crying because I was really upset that he'd believe this, so I asked him if he believes that Jesus Christ resurrected and he said, "I believe that He died on the cross, there! Bottom line!" So, now does he not just believe in Evolution, take the Bible figuratively, and now I'm not sure if he even believes that Jesus Christ rose from the dead I'm so angry! I'm angry at his stubbornness and ignorance to not listen to me and also at Satan for corrupting his mind like this!! I don't even know if He can go to Heaven! I believes in God, and he always prays to Him at the dinner table but how can he believe in God without believing the Word of God? I'm so upset! I don't know how to get through to him!!!!


It because of His school I'm sure! He goes to "Christian" Brothers that teaches Evolution and one of his teachers taught that the Flood of Noah's Ark couldn't have possible happened!


Is he going to Hell? I don't even know if he has ever repented. I'm so upset! All these false teachings are ruining minds! Help!

 

[God's Word]

I'm so upset! I don't know how to get through to him!!!!

MLMS:

As Christians, we can only plant (the seed of God's Word) and water...God alone can give the increase (I Corinthians 3:6-9). Live the life of a Christian before your brother. In so doing, you will be a living "epistle, known and read of all men" (II Corinthians 3:2-3). Whatever your brother decides to do is ultimately up to him and the worst thing that you can do is to try to "force" his conversion. Share the Word of God with him when you have the opportunity to do so and then pray for your brother that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, strives with him in order to hopefully lead him to genuine repentance and salvation.

 

[Strong in Him]

My brother believes in evolution, he believes the Bible is figurative[including Genesis, probably Noah's Ark, and Moses] and that it is really about taking a way a message then taking it literal. We debated and he his determining argument was that since monkeys and humans share 99.9% of DNA that that is proof that we share a common ancestor. He started screaming that he wins and no one can disprove that etc etc though I had plenty of arguments to put forth to refute it. He screamed, "Thats why 99.9% of scientists believe in Evolution! Because it's true!" And he started swimming and going under water (we were in the pool) while I screamed all my arguments at him using everything I could think of, evidence from scripture and also just science, but he wouldn't listen! I started crying because I was really upset that he'd believe this, so I asked him if he believes that Jesus Christ resurrected and he said, "I believe that He died on the cross, there! Bottom line!" So, now does he not just believe in Evolution, take the Bible figuratively, and now I'm not sure if he even believes that Jesus Christ rose from the dead I'm so angry! I'm angry at his stubbornness and ignorance to not listen to me and also at Satan for corrupting his mind like this!! I don't even know if He can go to Heaven! I believes in God, and he always prays to Him at the dinner table but how can he believe in God without believing the Word of God? I'm so upset! I don't know how to get through to him!!!

Maybe by not arguing - far less, screaming - about these things.

Now I can understand that some people want to know; it's good to ask questions and to know what we believe. But at the end of the day, this is not a salvation issue. The most important question that he, and anyone else, has to answer is the one that Jesus asked his disciples; "who do you say that I am?"

Jesus himself said that no one can come to the Father except through him, he said that his blood would be shed for the forgiveness of sins, theat he had come that we should have life and is the giver of eternal life. Peter said that there is no other name by which we can be saved (only Jesus' name.) If your brother believes this, has confessed his sins and has faith that Jesus has forgiven him and reconciled him to God, and been born again, he HAS eternal life - whether he believes in evolution or a literal 6 day creation.
It is possible to believe the whole of the Bible literally, (though I'm not sure it is meant to be taken that way), STILL not have a relationship with God and believe that good works are enough to get you to heaven. They aren't. It is Jesus alone who saves; not Jesus + a correct view of the creation stories/Noah's ark etc etc.

Is he going to Hell? I don't even know if he has ever repented. I'm so upset! All these false teachings are ruining minds! Help!

I don't know. I don't know his heart, if he has really heard and understood the Good News, what he believes about God and who he believes Jesus to be.

Personally I would say that it is almost guaranteed that you WON'T "get through to him" by screaming your views and trying to hammer them home. Ask him what he believes about Jesus. Listen, pray for him, let him know that he can ask questions and have a sensible discussion rather than a screaming match, pray for him some more, keep listening and the lines of communication open. Once he knows, and wants to accept, Jesus; once he believes that he is a sinner in the sight of God, that nothing he can do will put him right with God and realises that God loves him to bits and wants him to be his child sooo much that he gave the life of his own Son; once he has been born again and filled with the Spirit - i.e he believes and accepts all the important stuff, THEN you can start investigating, talking about and debating other apsects of the Bible. He may even find that knowing Jesus is so amazing that he is not too bothered about the things that are harder to understand. Not that it's wrong to study and find out about them - by no means! He may end up being a gifted Bible teacher.
But people are saved through Jesus, not by arguing about Noah's ark.

 

[MyLordMySavior]

Thanks! You are right about the screaming match. Before we decided to talk about Evolution we agreed on ground rules. We said no interrupting, screaming, just sensible talk and listen and acknowledge each other's arguments. I kept my end of the bargain trying to always keep the "debate" in control until he does what he usually does, screams to the sky he is right then runs away before anyone else can say anything. And since I was so upset, I let the emotions get the best of me and started yelling my arguments while he was underwater. But you are right. I'm never going to try to discuss this with him again since he is so stubborn, there is no hope in that aspect. I just hope that he can figure it out on his own.

And also, I just think that if he believes in evolution, then doesn't believe in Noah's Ark, Moses, and etc etc then it will eventually lead to him not believing in the ressurection of Jesus Christ and then losing faith completely. He even said that their is no evidence of the bible at all which is completely wrong, I know.


Thank you!

 

[hedrick]

My brother believes in evolution, he believes the Bible is figurative[including Genesis, probably Noah's Ark, and Moses] and that it is really about taking a way a message then taking it literal.
....
Is he going to Hell? I don't even know if he has ever repented. I'm so upset! All these false teachings are ruining minds! Help!

I'm a bit concerned that this is going to be harsher than I intend. I realize that you are probably just dealing with things the way you were taught. But you're concentrating on things that don't matter. I accept those things you list, but I also accept that Christ died and was raised for us. It is not necessary to convince people to reject science and critical scholarship to preach the Gospel.

It sounds like he is also rejecting at least some key parts of the Gospel, though you don't actually give us much information about that. if so, it's a problem. But it's likely that the only people who can help him with that are people who share with him the basic commitment to follow evidence. I'm not saying that no one has ever turned his back on critical thought to accept conservative Christianity. It's certainly happened. But from what you say I think it's unlikely. At some point you may need to decide whether you care more about literal interpretation of Scripture or salvation.

 

[God's Word]

It is not necessary to convince people to reject science and critical scholarship to preach the Gospel.

AND it's not necessary for you to infer that the Biblical account of Noah's flood has been disproven by science...because it hasn't. Incidentally, does "science" disprove Christ's resurrection from the dead? Jesus Christ is indeed risen....regardless of what "science" claims to the contrary.

 

[MyLordMySavior]

Of course Salvation is number one on my list. Loving Jesus Christ and making Him happy is the most important thing in the entire world. Without God, I'm nothing. I love Him so much I can't even describe it!!! But, Scripture is of course important too. I mean, the Bible is the Word of God!!! I take the Word of God literally. I don't understand why God would have made it all figurative. If anything, Loving God and following His Will for my life is the paramount aspect in everything I do.

 

[LantanaAnna]

He will have to use his own intellect to reach the conclusions of his beliefs in his life.
And these are decisions that are his to make. My advice: Pray for him, be kind and understanding,love him with all your heart.

 

[God's Word]

If anything, Loving God and following His Will for my life is the paramount aspect in everything I do.

Good for you. Just work on the "screaming" part and you should be okay. It's great to be zealous for God, but we can never force salvation upon anyone. Even God doesn't do that...contrary to the erroneous opinions of some. From my perspective, there are basically three different variables involved in our witnessing:

1. The sower.
2. The seed.
3. The soil.

You have control over the first two, but absolutely no control whatsoever over the third. IOW, as "the sower" of the seed of God's Word, you can "walk the walk" yourself and not just "talk the talk". Set a good example before your brother and be a "living epistle" before him. Whether he openly admits it or not, he will be watching you to see if what you profess is genuine and produces good fruit.

In relation to "the seed" of God's Word, don't ever compromise it. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth and He will never bear witness to error. As such, keep your doctrine pure...for your own sake and for the sakes of those to whom you witness.

As far as "the soil" is concerned, you ultimately have no control over the hearts (the soil) of those to whom you witness. The choice to either respond to or to reject the gospel lies totally within the heart the hearer...but God will certainly strive with such, via His Spirit, if you present them with the truth.

 

[sniperelite7]

Speaking as someone who went through and left behind all the creationist gibberish. A literal belief in Genesis is unnecessary and even harmful to the image of christianity. A literal reading of the OT would have us believing that the planets revolve around the earth and that its flat. The bible is not a science book, it was written by ancient men describing spiritual truths with what they had and knew.

The best thing you can do is show your brother the love of Christ, instead of hysteria over erroneous doctrinal issues.

 

[Radagast]

It sounds like he is also rejecting at least some key parts of the Gospel, though you don't actually give us much information about that. if so, it's a problem.

Yes; compared to the very important issue of the Resurrection, evolution really doesn't matter.

 

[God's Word]

Yes; compared to the very important issue of the Resurrection, evolution really doesn't matter.

I'm not about to get into a Creation vs. Evolution debate here (I've spent many years debating it with atheists already), but it DOES matter. If what is written in relation to "the first Adam" is false (and it isn't), then why should anyone believe what is written in relation to "the last Adam", Jesus Christ?

Speaking as someone who went through and left behind all the creationist gibberish. A literal belief in Genesis is unnecessary and even harmful to the image of christianity. A literal reading of the OT would have us believing that the planets revolve around the earth and that its flat. The bible is not a science book, it was written by ancient men describing spiritual truths with what they had and knew.

The best thing you can do is show your brother the love of Christ, instead of hysteria over erroneous doctrinal issues.

What's truly "harmful to the image of Christianity" is error filled statements like the one that you just made. God help us...

 

[Radagast]

By forcing people to choose between 144-hour creation and atheism, many Christians have been driven out of the Church. I think that is sad -- "He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth." (Luke 11:23)

However, doctrines like the Resurrection really are fundamental, and must be defended at all costs -- "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain." (1 Cor 15:14)

 

[AgapeBible]

I watched the Genesis Code, and I understand science and the Bible actually match up, there is a "biological time clock", that runs with God's time being different from ours, instead of being slower God actually moves at the speed of light, faster than us, our lives are like the blink of an eye, the big bang theory matches up with Genesis in how god created the world, with the whole "Let there be light", God's creation of light, the six days in God's time to several million years in our time. As for us being related to monkeys, perhaps a relationship, but no ancestry, people can become beasts without God's love, we evolve backwards, the closer we get to God the better we evolve/become, the further away from God the worse we evolve/become.

A screaming match is definitely not good. It sounds like both you and your brother need to calm down and gain some maturity. I understand your great love for your brother and how you are very afraid of him ending up in hell, it is heart breaking to think of someone you love going there. Pray for him constantly, the Lord will eventually answer your prayer. I kow what you are going through, I dealt with a rebellious, mentally ill sister who hated our family. I was worried for my sister's salvation too. The Lord has finally reached her heart. The idea of our friends and loved ones going to hell is painful and frightening. We can only encourage them to accept Christ as their savior, we cannot force them to believe and follow Jesus. I beleive God is more merciful than for what we give him credit for.

 

[God's Word]

However, doctrines like the Resurrection really are fundamental, and must be defended at all costs -- "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain." (1 Cor 15:14)

Keep reading:

I Corinthians 15:21-22

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

And, again:

I Corinthians 15:45-49

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

Again, if what is written in relation to "the first man Adam" is false, then everything that is written in relation to "the last Adam", JESUS CHRIST, is rendered meaningless. If sin and death didn't enter into the world through the offense of one, the first man Adam, who was the figure of Him (Christ) that was to come (Romans 5:12-14), then Christ's atonement for sin and resurrection from the dead are meaningless and the Bible is nothing but a book of fairy tales. Thankfully, the accounts in relation to BOTH "Adams" are true...whether or not many professing Christians are equipped to defend such.

By forcing people to choose between 144-hour creation and atheism, many Christians have been driven out of the Church. I think that is sad -- "He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth." (Luke 11:23)

Again, what is truly "sad" is that many professing Christians are unequipped to defend their faith. We're called to "be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you" and NEVER are we called to compromise truth to keep people within the church walls.

...the big bang theory matches up with Genesis in how god created the world, with the whole "Let there be light", God's creation of light, the six days in God's time to several million years in our time.

Really?!?

God created the fruit bearing trees and plants on the third day (Genesis 1:11-13) and He didn't create the Sun until the fourth day (Genesis 1:14-19). Would you be so kind as to explain to us how the trees and plants survived without the Sun FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS with your "God's day = millions of years matching up" theory?

Like I said, God help us...

 

[Harry3142]

www.theologywebsite.com/etext/egypt/creation.shtml

This creation epic is what those to whom Genesis was written already had been taught during their time in Egypt. Note that in it the celestial objects, and even the atmosphere itself, were gods and goddesses. There were over 40 different gods and goddesses in the egyptian pantheon, with every one of them portrayed by either a celestial object, such as the sun, a portion of the planet's surface, such as its atmosphere, or an animal or combination of two or more animals.

If we put this creation epic next to Genesis 1:1-2:3, we see what the author of Genesis was attempting to accomplish. He methodically stripped every celestial object of its divine attributes; he stripped the planet's surface, its atmosphere, and the 'heavens' above its atmosphere of their divine attributes; and he stripped every other specie of animal, both land and aquatic, of their divine attributes. By the time that he was through the sun, moon and stars were nothing more than objects in the sky which gave us light; the planet was merely an object which we lived on, with a surface, an atmosphere, and an area beyond the atmosphere known as 'the heavens'; and the other species of animals were merely other species of animals, rather than representations of gods and goddesses. The only Being that was to be seen as divine was also to be seen as seperate from all that he had created, as well as beyond man's capability to describe through painting him on a wall or sculpting him out of stone.

Even the second creation story (Genesis 2:4-25) was a demythologization of egyptian myth. Note that in their creation epic they described mankind and all the other animals as being formed on the last day of creation, and then 'dumped' on the planet. But as told in Genesis, man's creation was to be seen as unique. Alone of all the species of animals he could converse with God. God gave him the authority to name all the other species of animals, a symbol of authority over them even though many other species were much stronger than man was. God also set aside a special place where man could live comfortably, namely, The Garden of Eden. He even made for him a helpmate (Eve) in a special manner. Mankind was to be seen as seperate from all other species of animals, a position we have held ever since for better or worse.

God also made man capable of disobeying God himself, a capability no other specie of animal has even today. Only mankind could attain the knowledge of good and evil, rather than living innocently as all the other species lived. He could continue to live in this state of innocence, or he could choose to 'partake of the fruit' and thus obtain the knowledge that only God had up to this point.

He chose to 'partake of the fruit' and by so doing attained a knowledge that no other specie had. Alone of all the animals he could recognize certain actions as being good and other actions as being evil. He had lost his innocence, and he would never recover it. The way in which the author of Genesis described this loss would have been instantly recognized by those to whom it was written, because it was blatant plagiarism of yet another egyptian myth. It was the retelling of the battle between Ra the sun god and Sebau the serpent-fiend, in which Ra defeated Sebau, hacked off his front legs, and bound his hind legs together, thus forcing him to crawl on his belly.

The purpose of the story wasn't to say that Eve ate both herself and Adam out of house and home. It was to say that mankind at one time was as innocent as all the other species of animals, but at a certain point in time he acquired the knowledge of good and evil. But far from making his life better, this knowledge has made his life worse because of his being all too willing to follow the dictates of evil rather than the dictates of good.

 

[sniperelite7]

Careful Harry, such analysis are harmful to Christianity.


"God's Word"- Really now? The obsession that christians have over evolution is what has done great harm to the faith. This dogmatic adherence to a literalist interpretation has intellectually stunted many christians, and served to do nothing but hand more ammunition to our faith's detractors.

 

[God's Word]

"Obsession"?

"Intellectually stunted"?

"Ammunition"?

I fully expected some sort of dramatic diversionary tactic and you didn't disappoint. Why not just come right out and say that you don't believe the scriptures? Even Jesus taught "creationism". Are you wiser than Jesus? Incidentally, I spent about 6 solid years debating hard-core, God-hating atheists on the topic of evolution and they've got nothing but BLANKS, so spare me talk of "ammunition", okay?

Anyhow, as I noted in my earlier posts on this thread, I'll leave the attempted giving of the increase to God.

 

[1Em1Esseswife]

Careful Harry, such analysis are harmful to Christianity.


"God's Word"- Really now? The obsession that christians have over evolution is what has done great harm to the faith. This dogmatic adherence to a literalist interpretation has intellectually stunted many christians, and served to do nothing but hand more ammunition to our faith's detractors.

The creation account was not written to convince the children of Abraham, that the Egyptian religion was wrong.
This is just a natural consequence that happens to falsehood when the truth is spoken.
These people knew they were the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
They even knew thier lineage and from which of the twelve sons of Jacob they came from.
They also knew when Moses was supposed to show up.
Joseph even gave orders as to his bones when they left.

The truth of creation merely points out the deceptive lies of Satan.

You two would do well to stop giving place to Satan in your "faith?"
Genesis 18:19 KJV

For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

 

[sniperelite7]

I fully expected some sort of dramatic diversionary tactic and you didn't disappoint. Why not just come right out and say that you don't believe the scriptures? Even Jesus taught "creationism". Are you wiser than Jesus? Incidentally, I spent about 6 solid years debating hard-core, God-hating atheists on the topic of evolution and they've got nothing but BLANKS, so spare me talk of "ammunition", okay?

Creationism is a fundamentalist theological abortion that was conceived fairly recently in historical terms. Show me where Jesus takes Genesis to be literal? The early church fathers, and historically most of Christianity has taken the creation story as symbolic.

Believe in scripture? I believe in Christ. I analyze scripture and take from it while fully aware of how man's thought and interpretation of it has changed throughout history. See my previous blab about the early church.

I see no creationists defending flat earthism and geocentricism. Despite all consensus that that is what the ancient Hebrews believe and the picture that the old testament explains.