is masturbation wrong? need answers for a mens meeting.

[mr maph]

tell me your opinion is masturbation wrong?

 

[Stealth001]

I vote no. The Song of Solomon has some heaving insinuations of self arousal and fantansy. There is a difference between fantasy and lust.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

It can lead to lust or sexual things but the act in and of itself is not a sin if you avoid lusting and so on. Of course alot of men have porn addictions so naturally they understand how one can mb without some sort of sexual stimuli. But it is possible.

 

[jehoiakim]

Christ said if you lust after a woman in your heart you have already committed adultery with her, so the thoughts are not acceptable either... if it was done over say your wife if she were unavailable that I think would be okay. or if you could dome how perform the act without thinking of any person or any form of that person perhaps it would be ok, but in general I think the more you perform that act the more lust your heart will be filled with and it is certainly not an easy thing to refrain from.

As for Song of Solomon the narritive is about a man and his bride so it was within marriage wasn't it? So I don't think that fits the majority of situations

 

[Brother_Joey_Gowdy]

Yes, sexual self-pleasure it is a sin... read:

"Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:" - Colossians 3 : 2 & 5 KJV

"Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart." 2 Timothy 2:22 KJV

http://www.scionofzion.com/masturbation.htm

Saying that it is not a sin... is quite deceitful, it is clearly said:

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." - 1 Corinthains 6 : 18-20 KJV

 

[Kol]

Wow. Another masturbation-is-wrong thread.

Christ said if you lust after a woman in your heart you have already committed adultery with her...

With the implication that it is a married woman:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."​

The topic is adultery. You can't commit adultery with someone who isn't married. By definition, that's not adultery. Actually, it was never a sin for two unmarried people to sleep together. Never the ideal, but never a sin either. And "fornication" doesn't apply either, because Paul is always talking about other things when he uses that word, most times temple harlots.

Yes, sexual self-pleasure it is a sin... read:

Colossians 3 : 2 & 5

I don't see it, captain.

Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.​

Lust is far too general of a term for it to mean masturbation, when there has never been any previous mention of its supposed sinfulness. Lust for food? Lust for wealth? Lust for sleep? I'll buy any of those, since scripture makes mention of them plenty of times.

2 Timothy 2:22

Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.​

A little vague. Sorry, no win there.

 

[Brother_Joey_Gowdy]

Wow. Another masturbation-is-wrong thread.

I don't see it, captain.

That's because your sins have blinded you to the spirit of truth.

"therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." - John 12 : 39 - 40 KJV

 

[CounselorForChrist]

That's because your sins have blinded you to the spirit of truth.

This is sort of a general statement and not directed at you really but to many I know use that line when they believe they are right. Couldn't it be used on yourself also? How do you know what you think is truth is actually not truth?

Fact is there are a few grey areas of the bible where no one knows the exact answer. MB is one of those areas. All to often people stretch some verse to fit what they think it means, what they think is truth. There is nothing that comes close to addressing MB in the bible. We tend to fall back on the word lust to assume MB is wrong. And yes, if you lust while MB then it is wrong. But if you do not lust then how can it be wrong?

Lust means many things such as:
-pleasure or delight
Well in that case wouldn't most things in life be a sin since we take pleasure or delight in them? What about loving your spouse? That brings pleasure does it not?

-a strong drive
This could be applied to most things we do also. Such as planning things or "wanting" something such as wanting a new car. Does this mean wanting is a sin?

-a strong desire for sexual gratification/a strong sex drive
What about when your married and want sex because of your sex drive? Does that means its a sin to have sex with your spouse even though the bible says its ok?

Hopefully you see what I am getting at. Lust means many things and if you want to be legalistic you can turn use the sin of lust to fit whatever subject your talking about. However I will admit the word strong can also be replaced with the word idol which is a sin. So if MB is something you do many times a day then technically its become your idol and is a sin.

I won't even get into the fact that science has show MB is healthy. And if thats true then wouldn't that mean God lets us MB to keep ourselves healthy? He designed us after all. My own christian doctor that deals with problem in the genital region even said that because I have pain in my testicles that MB is a good way to keep the pain under control because it releases old build ups of fluids.

When it comes down to it we are to go by the bible itself, not anyone else. And as stated already the bible does not address MB, unless your willing to stretch on it and assume it means other things. If I am wrong, God won't send me to hell. Although according to vegans I will go to hell because I eat meat (despite the verses that say you can eat meat).

---EDIT---
I forgot to add the example of singles. I've seen many singles say that married people are blind to the truth that we are to remain single for many reasons. And yet theres nothing really that says single are better nor that God wants us to be single. Although with that topic there are at least some verses that hint about it, such as going forth and multiplying. I am not willing to tell someone whats a sin unless I can back it up with a verse that shows it us or at least mostly show it is.

Last example is years ago an older woman who was at an event yelled at me for stepping on some ants that were eating spilled ice cream at a fair. She told me the bible says we should not kill, which includes insects and bacteria...etc. I then told her our own bodies have things that kill things such as colds so how can we not kill things in our bodies when God designed us that way? I also pointed out the bile she had was made from a killed tree. It made her stop and think and realize maybe she was stretching to much on the killing thing.

Sometimes we want to be so perfect as christians we take things to an extreme. Which really is fine as long as we don't tell others to live like how we do. Being home schooled I met many christian families that were beyond extreme to the point of their kids had to dress a certain way. They couldn't leave the house. They would get punishment for simply saying "Oh poop!" when something went wrong. They had no computer, no television not even a phone. Yes its probably for the best to not have a computer or television. But at the same time its an extreme.

 

[Kol]

That's because your sins have blinded you to the spirit of truth.

"therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." - John 12 : 39 - 40 KJV

I think I see pretty well. And yes, the same cloud-like verse could be applied to you as well.

The fact is, He never seems as concerned over sexual sins as everybody else is. Jesus was notoriously easy on them. Methinks Queen Victoria has a lot to answer for.

 

[Brother_Joey_Gowdy]

"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?" - Galatians 3:1

"And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled [it] on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother." - Genesis 38:9-10

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." - Matthew 5:28

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body." - 1 Corinthians 6:18

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness," - Galatians 5:19-21

"Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:" - Colossians 3:5

"For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:" - 1 Thessalonians 4:3-5

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." - James 1:13-15

"Dearly beloved, I beseech [you] as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;" 1 Peter 2:11

Worth a read... http://www.ucg.org/bible-faq/masturbation-right-or-wrong

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it]." - 1 Corinthians 10:13

 

[Kol]

"And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled [it] on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother." - Genesis 38:9-10

Onan's sin was that he didn't want to fulfill the law of giving offspring to his brother's family. That fits with the idea/context of the greater story; it simply isn't a story about masturbation.

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." - Matthew 5:28

Again, Jesus is giving a lesson on adultery. Adultery is a sin of married men & women. The only way an unmarried person can commit "adultery" is to sleep with a married person. Again, there's nothing to suggest masturbation here.

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body." - 1 Corinthians 6:18

The subject is prostitutes, as is stated in vs 15 & 16. Paul defines what he means when he's talking about "fornication," which is here having intercourse with a temple girl. That's why there's the contrast to the body being the temple of God in vs 19. There's no mention of masturbation.

All the rest of the verses you supplied about fornication and sexual sins are vague and cover a slew of topics (homosexuality, adultery orgies, etc), which have already been defined in other passages , none of which mention masturbation.

 

[Brother_Joey_Gowdy]

“And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the Lord: wherefore He slew him also.” - Genesis 38: 9-10

Early readers of the KJV believed that Onan had masturbated, so they sometimes called it “Onanism” and condemned it as sinful because God had killed Onan for doing it.



“Woe to them that devise iniquity, and work evil upon their beds! When the morning is light, they practice it, because it is in the power of their hand.” - Micah 2:1

People who masturbated with their hands in bed in the morning probably projected what they were doing into the particular wording of the KJV. Therefore, masturbation was evil.



"And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off , and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish , and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." - Matthew 5:30

Many fundamentalist speculate this was a reference to jacking off / masturbating.



"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." - James 4:17

Just a reminder of what the true explanation of sin is.

 

[Kol]

“And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the Lord: wherefore He slew him also.” - Genesis 38: 9-10

Early readers of the KJV believed that Onan had masturbated, so they sometimes called it “Onanism” and condemned it as sinful because God had killed Onan for doing it.

Defend the verse based on its merits, not on popular opinion. Onan didn't want the child to be conceived, because he knew it wouldn't be his. That was his sin.

Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his sperm on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death also.​

It wasn't the only death the Lord caused in this situation. There is a bigger reason and lesson to what God was doing; Onan was fulfilling the Law only technically.

 

[gypsygirl]

I chose to delete my posting as I found it inappropriate and unedifying. Sorry for any damage I did.

 

[Brother_Joey_Gowdy]

I chose to delete my posting as I found it inappropriate and unedifying. Sorry for any damage I did.

Apologies, been away on a mission trip, didn't get a chance to read it - mind sending it in a PM ?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Hi,

I think regardless of whether it is wrong or not there are a lot of people who struggle with it. I had times in my life where I did not MB and times when I did. For me there were many desires that were unfulfilled when I was not married, and I often fell into MB. I never felt really good about it, but I never considered it a terrible sin.

God did not stop working in my life as a young man because of it, I experienced many miracles in my life, and my life was 100% dedicated to God in all other areas. From my experience I can't condemn anyone who struggles, or I would be a hypercryte.

If I would give any advice it would be encourage people to not do it, but don't judge them if they do.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

I find to many things that show not MB is dangerous for your health. Such as if you don't use it, you lose it. Or that it prevents prostate cancer, more so when it runs in your family. I think if it was a sin then God would have mentioned it. I think he assumes that we know it isn't wrong as long as it isn't our idol and aw long as we don't lust whole doing it.

With that said I do it less and less. I don't really care if I do it all. After losing my virginity, MB just is boring in comparison lol.

 

[Purge187]

With that said I do it less and less. I don't really care if I do it all. After losing my virginity, MB just is boring in comparison lol.

Therein lies the problem for some Christians. I'm still a V, and because of my choice to not have kids, I may never get married and therefore won't have the proper "outlet" for intimacy as God prescribes it. If I could snap my fingers and put my sex drive on ice, I certainly would.

As has been stated before, Onan's sin was disobedience, not "playing Solitaire". The fact is, the Bible doesn't specifically mention masturbation. IMO, the perfect place for it to have been addressed would be the section where Paul gives advice to fellow single Christians. Paul was a straight-shooter, which is why I think he was chosen to write most of the post-Ascension scriptures. But even he didn't bring it up.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Most people who think MB is ok will say even if you don't do it, you seem to build up sexual urges. Which is why sometimes people start looking at porn or lusting. So its almost as if you don't MB, your problems get worse sin wise.

So even though I say I MB less. I still have to about once a week or more or else I feel like the devil himself is pulling me towards sinful things to make me MB. Within the last 5 days I've MB twice without lusting or anything and I feel relieved. I don't even care about the pleasure of it at this point. Its sex relief for me lol. Granted my libido seems to build up knowing in less then 2 months I will be on my honeymoon. Kind of hard not to think about.

Its why I agree with the bible that says better to marry then to live in sin. I concur. If I were still single, MB would have just keep leading me down the path of porn and lust. Just to be open though I am not marrying my fiance just for sex. Many go get married to be sin free, but you should only marry someone when you actually like them.

Sex defiantly helped me care less about MB though. Obviously don't go have it before marriage though.

 

[mandelduke]

It will make you go blind!