Is Masturbation a sin?

Kathryn Jensen said:

We truly are NOT under law.
We truly are not under the Mosaic Law. Not being under the Mosaic Law does not mean that we are not required to obey God and His 'commandments.'

I John 5:1-3 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of GOd; and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments."

I John 12:3 And by this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments."

3:22...and whatever we ask of Him we receive from Him because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
3:24 and the one who keeps His commandments abides in Him..."

Romans 5:32 And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.
Romans 2:6;
I Cor 6: 9- written to the believers at Corinth lists quite a few lifestyle actions that will cause eternal separation.

The majority of Scriptures that were written regarding the Law was referring to the Mosaic Law. One of the biggest obstacles the early church faced was Messianic Jews who struggled with being led by the Holy Spirit in obedience to God rather The Law given specifically to the Jews at Mount Sinai. Some of the major players were actually telling newly saved Jews and the Gentiles, that they had to be circumcised to be saved or refraining from foods sacrificed to idols, etc. All Mosaic Law biggies. It was causing so much confusion that the counsel had to gather and make some decisions on what to tell the new Jewish and Gentile believers.

Acts 15, for example deals with decisions made regarding Gentiles: "but that we write to them that they should abstain from thing contaminated from idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood...For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things you will do well.

Could those believers have said that they were under grace and therefore were going to disregard the Holy Spirit and "eat things contaminated from idols and fornicate and eat things strangled? Sure. Would it have been disobedience, and thus sin?

There is never a time when we aren't obeying some commands from God for various reasons. Further, there is still sin; it just isn't disobeying The Mosaic Law. Jesus didn't set us free TO sin/disobey God. He enables us to NOT sin and to obey God. He gave us the power to be obedient. "if you love me you will obey my commandments." It's not that a truly saved person is free to sin. A truly saved person can not live a lifestyle of sin.

"There is no temptation but such as is common to man but God is faithful who will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able but with the temptation will make a way of escape." No excuse.

As God says, the law is fulfilled when you love Him and love people...because when you love people you won't lie to them; you won't cheat them, you won't steal from them; you aren't committing adultery with their spouse. "go and sin no more."
When you love God, then whatever He tells you to do, you will do (obey) it. This is not the Mosaic Law, this is down to something as simple as, "Give that homeless man some money." If you don't do it, this is disobedience. If God says,"This movie is inappropriate for you," but you say, "Oh, that must be Satan trying to put me back into the bondage of legalism," that's wrong. Well, that's ignorance...lol But once you realize it is God and disobey, that's sin.

There is a saying, "Freedom isn't free."

Adam and Eve had a commandment...obey God
The Children of Israel had 613 lol in The Mosaic Law "written in stone" (obviously to govern the nation)
Christians obey the commands "written on their hearts" (being led by the Spirit).
And the New Jerusalem will certainly not be a free for all...

Can you live a lifestyle of sin and be saved?


The law is good, if we use it correctly. But, we are not intended to be under subjection to it any longer; only to the law of Christ. And HIS burden, is light.

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But, in the context of the subject of this thread, it is a sin to call something a sin that is not a sin. And it is a sin to go about seeking to find excuses to make innocent activities seem to be sinful.

the And it is a sin to go about seeking to find excuses to make innocent activities seem to be sinful.

I don't seek to find excuses for innocent activities. I was responding to a question regarding a potentially dangerous activity.

Reeniee said:

I'm not disagreeing with you on that, but out of curiosity would that argument not also allow adultery? Is fidelity in marriage not an example of the partners having 'authority' over each other's bodys, to some extent?

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It's a promise made voluntarily. I choose not to have sex with others because I choose not to. You make it sound like I want to and my husband is stopping me.

I know there are some men who get into a cycle of porn and masturbation and ignore their wife, more than just sexually.
But I really believe most healthy guys can masturbates and then his wife start flirting with him that he will be ready to go. I know I'd be ready and always was.

So this argument only applies to a limited group of men and has limited weigh in my few to say masturbation is wrong.

But, in the context of the subject of this thread, it is a sin to call something a sin that is not a sin. And it is a sin to go about seeking to find excuses to make innocent activities seem to be sinful.

Hello Paul, I was responding to you yesterday from my phone while engaged in something, and then forgot to ask you my question...When you touch do you look at porn?

I agree that its a sin to to make something sinful when its not sinful ... church has been doing that its whole history from my read of church history.
But I love that your saying this and pointing it out, Kathryn.

I don't know why people in the church seem to put so much pressure on each other and themselves about this topic. It is so sad. There is so much guilt involved and it literally destroys people.
We were created as sexual beings for crying out loud. Masturbation is not a sin. It is a way to relieve sexual tension and relax. Stop making people feel guilty for being human. We live in world full of things to feel guilty about and this is not one of them.
I'm so glad my parents taught me that it's a normal, healthy human desire and it is not a sin.

Jennae said:

I don't know why people in the church seem to put so much pressure on each other and themselves about this topic. It is so sad. There is so much guilt involved and it literally destroys people.
We were created as sexual beings for crying out loud. Masturbation is not a sin. It is a way to relieve sexual tension and relax. Stop making people feel guilty for being human. We live in world full of things to feel guilty about and this is not one of them.
I'm so glad my parents taught me that it's a normal, healthy human desire and it is not a sin.

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Jennae - you should consider yourself very fortunate. Kudos to your parents.

I do not know how old you are but those growing up in my generation were either told nothing about this subject at all (like myself) or were given VERY NEGATIVE messages about it (like my wife).

Having seen first hand the damage done to my wife from that stance, it is not something I will ever keep quiet on.


Edited to add:

When I started doing some serious bible study and surveying christian literature on this subject back in the 1980s, what I found VERY upsetting was that, to a man, every person who condemned "M" for single teens was married and much older. (50s, 60s, 70s) So they were presumably having their sexual needs met fairly regularly and were decades removed from the kind of frustration an absolute ban on "M" causes in our younger believers. For me that almost completely disqualified them to speak to it at all.

What finally cemented it for me was in 2 books by Dr Cliff Penner and his wife Joyce. (RN) In their book "The Gift of Sex" the section on M was prefaced by a quote from Song of Solomon 5:5: "my hands dripped with myrrh, And my fingers with liquid myrrh." (Shulamite masturbating) and an anecdote from their follow up book "A Gift for All Ages." (renamed now) They told a story about a 12 year old girl they knew who comitted suicide because of M. In her note she said she could not understand why God would make her with such strong desires and then condemn her for responding to them. Suicide was her only hope of stopping.

Jesus/Yeshua said you will know them by their fruit.
What kind of fruit is suicide? Not good.

To me, it is unconsionable to lay that heavy a guilt trip on an immature believer.

I agree that its a sin to to make something sinful when its not sinful ... church has been doing that its whole history from my read of church history.
But I love that your saying this and pointing it out, Kathryn.

I'd like to speak to this is I may. I apologize if it gets lengthy. Articulating my thoughts on this topic is difficult.

I was "raised," if you will, Baptist. Unfortunately, this particular sect of Baptist was extremely legalistic. They taught rules rather than relationship. Moreover, they taught (as Scriptural) "personal convictions' as sin. In other words, at that particular time, for example, they taught that women wearing pants, men having long hair, attending movies, listening to secular music, etc., was a sin. I was a child so my focus is more from a child's view point, hence the list. In the end, when tragedy struck my life, I didn't know God in a personal way, nor knew how to turn to him relationally. I walked away from that religion when I was 18.

I don't have a problem with a Shepherd teaching his flock that not all things are profitable to our relationship with the Lord, and the growth thereof, and that we need to "be in the world, not of it," and "be holy for I am Holy," ect. Obviously, I want to guard against the enemy gaining any kind of foothold into my life (and all that entails). I want to nurture my relationship with the Lord not nurture my relationship with the world. However, we simply cannot teach "from the pulpit" that that which is a personal conviction is Scripturally sin.

I wll say that every person is in a different place, and God requires different lifestles, behaviors, actions, whatever, from people. What is wrong to one isn't necessarily wrong to another. I know many worship leaders who God requires they refrain from listening to secular music on a regular basis (I don't mean they can never hear or listen to a secular song). However, this worship pastor cannot turn around and teach that it is a sin for everyone to listen to secular music. Many pastors are called from God to abstain from drinking alcohol. That pastor simply cannot then teach his flock that drinking (in moderation) is a sin. If anything, that it sin!!! However, as you say, throughout church history, it was common practice.

What was the root of it: fear, and thus control.

I am no longer Baptist. I spent several years running from anything that hinted at legalisism ~ prob swung too far the other way. However, as God called me back to Him; and revealed Himself to me as a personal God, I began to refrain from certain actions/behaviors because of the relationship not as a means of obtaining it. I am referring to personal convictions. There is sin that is universal to all of God's children and a lifestyle of them will keep one from "entering the kingdom of heaven." Today, I absolutely monitor what I view as entertainment. I absolutely monitor the lyrics of songs. I absolutely drink in moderation, and do not drink to get drunk. I absolutely listen to the Holy Spirit and refrain from actions He requires of me ~ most of the time. I am not perfect, by any means ~ Out of love and nurturing of my relationship with God, not legalism.

I John: "If you love me, you will obey my commandments." This is not referring to the Mosaic Law, as we are not under that law. This is referring to the laws that God will write on our hearts, as we are each personally guided and directed by the Holy Spirit.

As far a masturbation is concerned. I don't consider myself legalistic. There may be reasons why single people touch. I certainly would never tell a single person that masturbation is sin. If it becomes an addiction, then that's a different story, and topic. However, if there is one entity/institution that the enemy wants to attack and destroy, it is marriage!!! And Godly marriages, for sure.

Having said that, as Christians, we must guard our hearts, guard our lives, guard our marriages. My spouse and I didn't guard ours, and we no longer have one. : ( We cannot compromise in any way when it comes to the world's way of doing things. We can't give the enemy one area of our lives. We can't afford to. And especially, the spiritual head of the household, the man, can't afford to. Marriage and sex is extremely important, and I don't need to get into that now. Masturbation (self sex) is about self and God ordained sex to be about giving to a partner (and not just about procreation...sigh) It's the one thing that separates us from other relationships (friends). It's God's gift to His creation, in the confines of marriage. It can be a problem in marriage...because the enemy WANTS it to be.

But what concerns me more than anything is the statistics of masturbation to porn. The majority of men who touch look at porn. And that is where the sin comes into play. And an alarming percentage of Christian men are looking at porn.
And porn is a type of adultery, adultery is sin.

The End...lol
not gonna proofread...lol

FanofGod1992 said:

But my real question is, is it a sin if you do it and not look at porn. Because I do touch but I don't don't look at other women.

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I dont believe it is... scripture is pretty clear about what is sin regarding sex and masturbation is not listed.

People will cite Yeshua saying: but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Lets deconstruct this and ask some simple questions. First off, the bible makes a distinction between fornication and adultery. Adultery can ONLY happen when one or both of the 2 people involved is MARRIED.

this verse is speaking to men looking at a woman. One has to understand that a girl in puberty was almost certainly married. It is widely believed that Mary was probably around 12-13 when she was betrothed to Joseph.

For men there are strong medical reasons for [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Studies show that men who frequently have an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] have a GREATLY reduced risk of prostate cancer. The sex drive in a man is only behind the need for air, water and food. From the onset of puberty the average male has an intensely strong sex drive that often does not wane until later in life (50+)

BukiRob said:

For men there are strong medical reasons for [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Studies show that men who frequently have an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] have a GREATLY reduced risk of prostate cancer. The sex drive in a man is only behind the need for air, water and food. From the onset of puberty the average male has an intensely strong sex drive that often does not wane until later in life (50+)

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All well and true, but one sided.

Dr Ed Wheat (a christian ob/gyn) who has written a few books said in one of them that one of the main reason he has seen for women needing hysterectomies is cell damage done by an ongoing cycle of natural arousal (with accompanying venous congestion) but no [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] to flush the excess blood. Eventually it causes enough tissue damage that the organ has to be removed. It is the same problem (only stretched out) that the ED pill commercials warn about: "an erection lasting over 4 hours..."

So I see it as medically necessary for the ladies as it is for the guys.

Kathryn Jensen said:

But what concerns me more than anything is the statistics of masturbation to porn. The majority of men who touch look at porn.

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Agreed that it is very disturbing. But IMO it goes back to the whole concept of making "M" sinful to begin with. So it is easy for the devil to come in and since you are sinning anyway, why not enhance the experience? And once you have done that a few times, the brain gets wired to need that additional visual stimulus. And now you are hooked.

BTW - the numbers of women using porn for solo enjoyment is growing by leaps and bounds. It will be equal to men in a few years.

For men there are strong medical reasons for [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

Maybe in addition to "Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses." I Tim 5:23, God should have said "No longer just use the natural function of the vagina but add masturbation for your prostate infirmities."

<I say with as little sarcasm as possible>

For men there are strong medical reasons for [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Studies show that men who frequently have an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] have a GREATLY reduced risk of prostate cancer.

Where I may not believe that masturbation is a sin (I believe Orthodox Jews do believe it to be) in certain circumstances. I don't know if I buy the whole "for medical reasons" theory.

If I can find one study that contradicts your theory (even just in the age group) then I can find more. Who knows who conducted the study, how many people participated in it (how many men agreed to touch over a period of their lives for research)? You'd have to have thousands of participants over the course of their lives before anyone could medically say that it lowers anything...

http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/news/20090127/masturbation-and-prostate-cancer-risk

Kathryn Jensen said:

For men there are strong medical reasons for [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

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Maybe in addition to "Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses." I Tim 5:23, God should have said "No longer just use the natural function of the vagina but add masturbation for your prostate infirmities."

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That does not work on 2 levels:

1 - average age of marriage in the first century Jewish community was about 13-14. It was slightly higher in the Greek culture but still in the teens. So M among single young people was not the issue it is today with marriage age being in the 20s or even the 30s.

2 - Scripture (with VERY few exceptions) is more interested in the fulfillment of female sexuality than male sexuality. Culturally, women were considered to be the ones with the higher drives and husbands were CONTRACTUALLY required to give their wives satisfaction according to a predetermined frequency depending on his vocation. For many occupations it was DAILY. Not much oppotunity for prostate issues with that situation.

To me the reason to touch is to enjoy the pleasure and then thank God for how wonderfully He made us.
All these other reasons a 2ndary.

Back in my single days I did it for one reason only: to relieve the urge so I could get my mind on other things. (or go to sleep)

That does not work on 2 levels:

It was a joke!!!! I was being sarcasticISH. I thought I had said enough on the dangers of masturbation and porn that I could safely make an independent joke without clarification. My bad!

NO, I don't think God should have added that Scripture!!!!!!!

First, I was COMPLETELY making a sarcastic joke. I thought I had said enough about the dangers of masturbation that I could safety make that joke without clarifying. My bad.

On another note, where sex is important to the Jewish marriage, there are limited days when they can actually have sex due to the prohibition of sex during her menstrual cycle (niddah) and 7 days after and until mikveh (ritual bath). And I can tell you that masturbation is not permitted because it is expected that the desire for the wife will build during that time and they look forward to joining together in sexual unity.

DaveW-Ohev said:

Back in my single days I did it for one reason only: to relieve the urge so I could get my mind on other things. (or go to sleep)

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Right, back in the single day...emphasis on single. ; )