Is Mary God?

[Daniel Marsh]

Someone here claims that when he/she was Catholic, they believed Mary to be a god.

I do not remember any official catholic documents making such claims.

There are unofficial catholic authors who go overboard on who Mary is, and are not recognized as being orthodox doctrine.

 

[Jim Langston]

Not more than anyone who is a son of God.

Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

I believe what that is saying that a child of God is a god.

Brings new light as to what eternity will hold for us.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

How does that compare to Later Day Saints? This is text, I have heard many interpretations of.

 

[JackRT]

No educated Catholic would ever say that Mary was a "god". However, having said that, in some cultures the veneration of Mary is carried to such an extreme that it does verge on idolatry. This is called Mariolatry. We see something similar in some Protestant groups where the veneration of the Bible is so extreme that it becomes Bibliolatry.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Thank You, I think is their personal interpretations that becomes the idol, not the Biblical Text itself.
daniel

 

[Albion]

No educated Catholic would ever say that Mary was a "god". However, having said that, in some cultures the veneration of Mary is carried to such an extreme that it does verge on idolatry. This is called Mariolatry. We see something similar in some Protestant groups where the veneration of the Bible is so extreme that it becomes Bibliolatry.

I agree with what you say here--in general. However, I think that the "Bibilolatry" thing is more of a cherished insult used by some people.

To think the Bible deserves high respect as the revealed word of God and that a copy of the Bible should be treated with care, etc. is not equivalent to what you correctly referred to in the case of Mariolatry.

There, we have actual devotions, acts, and prayers directed to a spirit, and powers attributed to her that, in the case of some people, do appear to be the equivalent of conferring on her powers that only a god can have. The religious services, sodalities, holidays dedicated to her, rosaries, and so on goes well beyond the respect some people are said to direct to the Bible.

 

[Jim Langston]

In the end it comes down to, why does it matter? God tells us to worship Him and Him alone. God has spoken many times against "worshipping the created and not the creator" which would include Mary and all the "saints". Jesus said pray like this, "Our father who art in heaven..." We are to pray direct to God, no one else, not angels, saints, the dead, other gods, etc...

If Mary is a god we are not to pray to her. She is created, not the creator.

Now, what it means to be the children of God, that could be an interesting conversation.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Mary is rarely treated as God (i.e. a fourth person of the Triune God) but is often treated as a demi-God by man who, as Albion has observed, have attributed to her divine powers very much verging on divinity. Even in the most extreme Protestant sects the Bible is never allocated these attributes.

 

[Church2u2]

No. Mary is not God. She was Jesus's mother. She didn't die for our sins and as far as I know she didn't perform one miraculous thing or raise the dead or cast out demons . She may have been specially blessed to give birth to the son of the most high God but that was probably about it.Worshipping the mother of God's son was not commanded by God.

 

[Major1]

Not more than anyone who is a son of God.

Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

I believe what that is saying that a child of God is a god.

Brings new light as to what eternity will hold for us.

Agreed!

Mary needed to be saved just as much as all of the rest of us.

 

[Major1]

No. Mary is not God. She was Jesus's mother. She didn't die for our sins and as far as I know she didn't perform one miraculous thing or raise the dead or cast out demons . She may have been specially blessed to give birth to the son of the most high God but that was probably about it.Worshipping the mother of God's son was not commanded by God.

Agreed. The Bible says that Mary was blessed "AMONG" women. not ABOVE all women.

 

[Major1]

Mary is rarely treated as God (i.e. a fourth person of the Triune God) but is often treated as a demi-God by man who, as Albion has observed, have attributed to her divine powers very much verging on divinity. Even in the most extreme Protestant sects the Bible is never allocated these attributes.

Isn't it true that the Vatican has in recent times referred to Mary as the "CO-Mediatrix," ???

 

[Cappadocious]

This is text, I have heard many interpretations of.

What's yours?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Isn't it true that the Vatican has in recent times referred to Mary as the "CO-Mediatrix," ???

The Vatican itself has not done so, but there are many in the ultra-conservative wing of Catholicism who have pushing long and hard for a fifth Marian dogma to that effect. It seems that the major impediment to doing so is the collateral damage it might have in ecumenical relations.

 

[Panevino]

Agreed!

Mary needed to be saved just as much as all of the rest of us.

Correct, however she was in a unique way taught by the Catholic Church

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION
491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:



The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.

 

[Panevino]

Thi

Agreed. The Bible says that Mary was blessed "AMONG" women. not ABOVE all women.

Perhaps, think about this a bit more.
What is the context of the verse?(rhetorical)
Something unique is occurring(i.e. God incarnate)
An angel is talking... And she is "troubled" by the manner of salutation.

It should not concern anyone (i.e. Protestants) that she was considered blessed in a unique way.
Think about the need for arguing this point.

 

[Major1]

Thi

Perhaps, think about this a bit more.
What is the context of the verse?(rhetorical)
Something unique is occurring(i.e. God incarnate)
An angel is talking... And she is "troubled" by the manner of salutation.

It should not concern anyone (i.e. Protestants) that she was considered blessed in a unique way.
Think about the need for arguing this point.

I have done more than think my friend. I have written on it and spoken to it for almost 50 years.

The WORDS are that MAry was "Blessed AMONG women". That does not place her ABOVE all other women.

Yes it is unique. But we must remember that "God is not a respecter of persons" according to His own words. That mean no one is above anyone else.

The plain fact is that Mary was a sinner and the baby she gave birth to was the one she had to believe in as her Saviour in order for her to be saved.

Mary was not saved because she was the mother of the Messiah. She was saved because she accepted His death, and resurrection.

 

[Major1]

Correct, however she was in a unique way taught by the Catholic Church

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION
491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:



The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.

That is Catholic dogma and is NOT Bible truth. There is not one single verse in the Scriptures which say that Mary is in any way immune from sin. NOT ONE!

If you choose to believe the Catholic teaching over the Word of God, that my friend is certainly your choice.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Concerning the problem text in Psalms, I think the "gods" are corrupt judges who die like other people. In John 10, I think Jesus is using a Jewish argument, known as from the lesser to greater to demonstrate his Divine God Nature.

Phrases applied to Mary are also applied to other Christians.

"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14).

"And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people." (Acts 6:8).

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 5487 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
caritoo from (5485)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Charitoo 9:372,1298
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
khar-ee-to'-o Verb
Definition
to make graceful
charming, lovely, agreeable
to peruse with grace, compass with favour
to honour with blessings
NAS Word Usage - Total: 2
favored 1, freely bestowed 1
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/charitoo.html

Luke 1:28 NAS
28 And coming in, he said to her, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you."

Ephesians 1:6 NAS

6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

 

[Panevino]

I have done more than think my friend. I have written on it and spoken to it for almost 50 years.

The WORDS are that MAry was "Blessed AMONG women". That does not place her ABOVE all other women.

It places her and in particular her blessings as unique among women.(I still don't understand why you feel the need to dispute that).

consider Elisabeth also says the same thing a little later in luke1:42 Elisabeth sees something unique in mary and expresses a sense of honor in the visit, when she says .."..And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?..." Why? Because of who the son is

Yes it is unique. But we must remember that "God is not a respecter of persons" according to His own words. That mean no one is above anyone else.

I think I understand what your concerned about but acknowledgement of uniqueness and a special role is ok.
see Luke 7:28

For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

Your concerns about her being "above" seems to suggest a kind of misunderstanding of Catholic thought about Mary. Or a fear of conceding uniqueness in blessing for fear that it automatically results in a kind of mariolatry?
But you don't need to, it's just simply saying she was uniquely blessed, it's undeniable, isn't it?
This uniqueness does not detract from Jesus. It's the exact opposite, she is unique because of her son and it's beautiful to not be constrained by fear in having comfort to be like Elizabeth and be honored by the mother of our lord.(this is why her title mother of God is so important, the goal is to declare the nature of the Son and profess his incarnation)

The plain fact is that Mary was a sinner and the baby she gave birth to was the one she had to believe in as her Saviour in order for her to be saved.

Mary was not saved because she was the mother of the Messiah. She was saved because she accepted His death, and resurrection.

See how you used the word messiah. This is the same intent the early council had when they declared Mary "Theotokos"

She believed at her fiat
Luke 1:38
And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.


All the best