Is lying to protect someone from death a sin

[honeyb13]

I thought about this recently. I know this is something most people won't ever have to deal with this, but would you go to hell if you lied to save someone and died before you could repent?

I looked up this on Google, and I found yes and no answers. One answer though would be kind of nauseatingly cold to anyone who isn't really religious. They rebutted a scenario about hiding Jews from the Nazis with "you would probably die and the Nazis would probably find them anyways, so you should not lie because it's sin"

And what about Victoria Soto from Sandy Hook? The teacher who tried to save 1st graders by shoving them in the closets and lying to Lanza?

I'm not sure what to think about this issue.

 

[Starcrystal]

Rahab, Joshua 2, who Hebrews 11 also says was justified by faith for hiding them..

And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot's house, named Rahab, and lodged there.

2 And it was told the king of Jericho, saying, Behold, there came men in hither to night of the children of Israel to search out the country.

3 And the king of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying, Bring forth the men that are come to thee, which are entered into thine house: for they be come to search out all the country.

4 And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were:

5 And it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out: whither the men went I wot not: pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them.

6 But she had brought them up to the roof of the house, and hid them with the stalks of flax, which she had laid in order upon the roof.

7 And the men pursued after them the way to Jordan unto the fords: and as soon as they which pursued after them were gone out, they shut the gate.

8 And before they were laid down, she came up unto them upon the roof;

9 And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you.

10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.

11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.

12 Now therefore, I pray you, swear unto me by the LORD, since I have shewed you kindness, that ye will also shew kindness unto my father's house, and give me a true token:

13 And that ye will save alive my father, and my mother, and my brethren, and my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death.

 

[Sunshine Locket]

It's not a hard question for me. I'd lie to save a life.

Better to ask forgiveness than live with the guilt of having thought more of telling the truth to a potential murderer, than saving the innocent they were looking to kill.

I thought about this recently. I know this is something most people won't ever have to deal with this, but would you go to hell if you lied to save someone and died before you could repent?

I looked up this on Google, and I found yes and no answers. One answer though would be kind of nauseatingly cold to anyone who isn't really religious. They rebutted a scenario about hiding Jews from the Nazis with "you would probably die and the Nazis would probably find them anyways, so you should not lie because it's sin"

And what about Victoria Soto from Sandy Hook? The teacher who tried to save 1st graders by shoving them in the closets and lying to Lanza?

I'm not sure what to think about this issue.

 

[pyramid33]

All lying is a sin.

Don't be fearful. All lies come from being afraid of the enemy of God.






The devil is the father of lies.




Whoever lies, I have good news. I already defeated you.

 

[Sunshine Locket]

Murder is a sin.

 

[Starcrystal]

All lying is a sin.

Don't be fearful. All lies come from being afraid of the enemy of God.






The devil is the father of lies.




Whoever lies, I have good news. I already defeated you.

Can you explain Rahab then? She told the men of her own country she didnt know where the Hebrew spies were, then said they had left and they should go chase them and catch them...

But she knew full well where they were because she hid them up on her roof and went right to them after her own countries people left.

 

[tremble]

Can you explain Rahab then? She told the men of her own country she didnt know where the Hebrew spies were, then said they had left and they should go chase them and catch them...

Thanks for posting that example, star.

"All lying is a sin" seems to be more like legalism to me. God isn't stupid; he's able to understand the motives of the heart much better than we are and I think God is more interested in the reasons for a deception.

There is the famous example of Jesus' brothers telling him to go to the feast and make a spectacle of himself so that everyone would believe in him. He told them he was not ready to go yet and they should go ahead of him. (John 7:8-10)

Then, he puts on a disguise and goes to the feast secretly, where he later reveals himself halfway through the feast.

Did Jesus lie to his brothers? Well, yeah, he did. He told them he wasn't ready to go and then he goes anyway, and in disguise. But who cares? He had a good reason to be discreet; people were trying to kill him.

By the time he revealed himself at the feast, he'd already had a huge crowd gathered around him to listen to him preach and so it was more difficult for the leaders to arrest him. If he'd not gone in secret ahead of time to gather that crowd he probably would have been taken immediately.

 

[pyramid33]

Don't fool yourself.
Lies aren't of God.

Ttus 1:2
Inhttp://www.christianforums.com/#fn-descriptionAnchor-a hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

1 John 2:21
I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

 

[pyramid33]

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Omena]

Hey! I just read John 7 this morning (that same thing happened yesterday!)

Anyway, I was going to raise the same point that Tremble raised. I think that sometimes we can see lying as almost as bad a sin as murder (which, Pyramid, it seems you do think that).

If we look at the spirit behind the command to not bear false witness, it's pretty clear that God does not want us lying to cover up our OWN sins, or to lead people to believe that we're better than we really are. Situations where lying could save a person's life would obviously be an exception. Can anybody honestly say that they would tell the shooter where the 1st graders are, and then say "well, those deaths are on that man's head, I'm going to heaven!" Get real, you'd be just as guilty of murder, because the murder wouldn't have happened without you.

 

[pyramid33]

Hey! I just read John 7 this morning (that same thing happened yesterday!)

Anyway, I was going to raise the same point that Tremble raised. I think that sometimes we can see lying as almost as bad a sin as murder (which, Pyramid, it seems you do think that).

If we look at the spirit behind the command to not bear false witness, it's pretty clear that God does not want us lying to cover up our OWN sins, or to lead people to believe that we're better than we really are. Situations where lying could save a person's life would obviously be an exception. Can anybody honestly say that they would tell the shooter where the 1st graders are, and then say "well, those deaths are on that man's head, I'm going to heaven!" Get real, you'd be just as guilty of murder, because the murder wouldn't have happened without you.

Not condemning any, that is Gods job, just saying, I dont like lying and don't like those who think it is normal.

I find no exception to lying, considering the devil is it's maker.

To each it's own I suppose.


Truth be told, lying isn't ever good. I'm sure that is only for the weak and rejected by the world crowd.

 

[Omena]

I find no exception to lying, considering the devil is it's maker.

So, Pyramid, if a man with gun came into your 1st grade classroom and asked you where the kids were (which you were hiding), you would just point him in the right direction?

 

[ForJesusChrist]

I would. Would you rather tell a lie, or watch someone's innocent life be taken? Jesus died so all sins are put away, you will be forgiven by Jesus, and you will be preventing a bigger sin.

Just my opinion.

God Bless

 

[tremble]

Hey! I just read John 7 this morning (that same thing happened yesterday!)

Anyway, I was going to raise the same point that Tremble raised. I think that sometimes we can see lying as almost as bad a sin as murder (which, Pyramid, it seems you do think that).

If we look at the spirit behind the command to not bear false witness, it's pretty clear that God does not want us lying to cover up our OWN sins, or to lead people to believe that we're better than we really are. Situations where lying could save a person's life would obviously be an exception. Can anybody honestly say that they would tell the shooter where the 1st graders are, and then say "well, those deaths are on that man's head, I'm going to heaven!" Get real, you'd be just as guilty of murder, because the murder wouldn't have happened without you.

I think you've got a good point about responsibility. I am reminded of Pilot saying "I wash my hands" when sentencing Jesus to execution. Did he really absolve himself of responsibility by saying that? Maybe he really believed he did. Despite all our protestations about lying and deception, often times the person we lie most to is ourselves.

 

[tremble]

I think you've got a good point about responsibility. I am reminded of Pilot saying "I wash my hands" when sentencing Jesus to execution. Did he really absolve himself of responsibility by saying that? Maybe he really believed he did. Despite all our protestations about lying and deception, often times the person we lie most to is ourselves.

Pyrimid, did you see the example that starcrystal posted about Rahab and how she was justified for lying to save the lives of people serving God? Can you comment on this example?

Rahab, Joshua 2, who Hebrews 11 also says was justified by faith for hiding them..

And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot's house, named Rahab, and lodged there.

2 And it was told the king of Jericho, saying, Behold, there came men in hither to night of the children of Israel to search out the country.

3 And the king of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying, Bring forth the men that are come to thee, which are entered into thine house: for they be come to search out all the country.

4 And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were:

5 And it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out: whither the men went I wot not: pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them.

6 But she had brought them up to the roof of the house, and hid them with the stalks of flax, which she had laid in order upon the roof.

7 And the men pursued after them the way to Jordan unto the fords: and as soon as they which pursued after them were gone out, they shut the gate.

8 And before they were laid down, she came up unto them upon the roof;

9 And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you.

10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.

11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.

12 Now therefore, I pray you, swear unto me by the LORD, since I have shewed you kindness, that ye will also shew kindness unto my father's house, and give me a true token:

13 And that ye will save alive my father, and my mother, and my brethren, and my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death.

 

[pyramid33]

Pyrimid, did you see the example that starcrystal posted about Rahab and how she was justified for lying to save the lives of people serving God? Can you comment on this example?

If your suggesting an angel needed protection from man, a single angel is able to delete the world with Gods command.

 

[pyramid33]

So, Pyramid, if a man with gun came into your 1st grade classroom and asked you where the kids were (which you were hiding), you would just point him in the right direction?

Lying isn't ever necessary.

 

[Omena]

If your suggesting an angel needed protection from man, a single angel is able to delete the world with Gods command.

Except in reality God often uses US to be that angel, rather than sending down an actual being from heaven to intervene. I'm not saying that's impossible, but I still think you're sidestepping the issue. It's a bit of a dangerous area, IMO, because the way you're wording it seems to be suggesting that you would have grounds for blaming God for what happened, in a situation where you could have stopped a person from being killed.

 

[Omena]

Lying isn't ever necessary.

Well, there you have it. I feel sad that you would choose to completely ignore the points that others are making, in preference for your own belief. This rigid way of thinking is what we as Christians need to overcome.

Anyway, I don't feel we need to discuss any more.

 

[tremble]

If your suggesting an angel needed protection from man, a single angel is able to delete the world with Gods command.

No, I never suggested anything about angels.

I asked for your thoughts on a Biblical story where a prostitute was justified for lying to protect the lives of people serving God.

What do you think of that example? Was God wrong for justifying her?