Is it wrong to touch?

BrotherAtArms · Nov 29, 2005

XD well you can, but hey, we're all allowed out own opinions.

BrotherAtArms · Nov 29, 2005

ok, i'm makeing one last post here (I hope, ya'll won't leave me alone ><)

The definition of SEXUAL:

Of, relating to, involving, or characteristic of sex, sexuality, the sexes, or the sex organs and their functions.

So intercourse with another person and sexual intercourse with yourself is still... sexual.

Masturbation, sexually immoral.

Now leave me alone *Cries a river*

bertie · Nov 29, 2005

There are medical consequenses to a life without some form of sexual relief for men at least.When it comes to the old prostate ...The old adage use it or lose it,holds true....Some may get it but if you are under 50 or so i doubt it.Some kind of activity is far healthier and less painful/uncomfortable than none at all for long periods of time....The details are not hard to figure out,and prostate trouble is a good thing to avoid later in life.The fact remains anything taken to an extreme, good things included,,is a sin....I agree with the premise of Onans sin being unrelated to touching yourself per se.and more to do with procreational responsibility.

micknick · Nov 29, 2005

sally.b said:
Sorry mick, I should have quoted the verse, but i lost two long posts trying to get the links I needed for my post so i gave up with details by the end.

I'll use the AMP to expand it better ...

1 Corinthians 10:12-14 (Amplified Bible)

12Therefore let anyone who thinks he stands [who feels sure that he has a steadfast mind and is standing firm], take heed lest he fall [into sin].

13For no temptation (no trial regarded as enticing to sin), [no matter how it comes or where it leads] has overtaken you and laid hold on you that is not common to man [that is, no temptation or trial has come to you that is beyond human resistance and that is not adjusted and adapted and belonging to human experience, and such as man can bear]. But God is faithful [to His Word and to His compassionate nature], and He [can be trusted] not to let you be tempted and tried and assayed beyond your ability and strength of resistance and power to endure, but with the temptation He will [always] also provide the way out (the means of escape to a landing place), that you may be capable and strong and powerful to bear up under it patiently.

14Therefore, my dearly beloved, shun (keep clear away from, avoid by flight if need be) any sort of idolatry (of loving or venerating anything more than God).

Here it is in its context..... Ill use the NIV to keep it simple;

1 Corinthians 10

1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert.

6Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry." 8We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them didand in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9We should not test the Lord, as some of them didand were killed by snakes. 10And do not grumble, as some of them didand were killed by the destroying angel.

11These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. 12So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. <H5>Idol Feasts and the Lord's Supper </H5> 14Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. 15I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.

18Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? 19Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons. 22Are we trying to arouse the Lord's jealousy? Are we stronger than he? The Believer's Freedom 23"Everything is permissible"but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"but not everything is constructive. 24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

25Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."

27If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake 29the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience? 30If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for? 31So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God 33even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

i was wrong about that bit but the point remains the same- a celibate life is a valid way out and can be achieved through prayer

bertie · Nov 29, 2005

You may be absolutely right,what planet did you say you were from?
Maybe a few years of actual life experience will alter your views .Read up a bit on prostate cancer etc.we arent talking about something you can just shrug off.there are some things that you may not realize about the way the human body functions.You pay for every choice no matter which one you make......
If those scriptures about temptation are all you have against touching yourself, then i say it depends on your case is not real strong .What does paul say all things are permitted,but not all are beneficial or some such.
there is always the one about if your arm cause you to sin cut it off ,it is better to go through life with no arm than miss the chance for eternal life.....there, you have the full range of attitudes

BrotherAtArms · Nov 30, 2005

there is also another verse I like that comes from...

Collosians 3:5
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

and

1 Peter 4:2
As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.

Earthly desires not to be confused with needs.

Just adding in my last 2 cents

BTW Bertie, who are you talking to in your last post?

bertie · Nov 30, 2005

I was addressing miknikn on the celibacy for life plan,which i think is laudable but extremely rare.And has really nothing to do with it directly as i dont see celibacy as precluding the subject by some definition.Nor do i wish to debate , arguing potatoes and pumpkins is bound for oblivion.I think its probably better to :ohave no opinion than an honest one these days ....Wisdom is for the young,and hindsight for the old., - "every form of refuge has its price."..the eagles

micknick · Nov 30, 2005

bertie, the scriptures about temptation are also part of my argument, i also include the scriptures about sexual immorality/fornication. Contrary to what has been said the word translated as fornication actually meant the selling of girls into prostitution NOT any form of sexual intercourse. This means that not all forms of sexual sin are spelled out eg oral sex outside marriage, etc.. In the absence of direct teaching, I fall back on the principles of the Bible that no form of sexual activity is acceptable outside marriage, and only sex with your wife is permissible within marriage.

In relation to sally characters: the desire to be married does not grant exemption from the rules binding those who don't. The married man should be supportive of his wife and pray that through Jesus she will overcome her issues and see sex as a gift from God. As Stan said the standard righteousness is set by God not by the individuals needs/desires.

sally.b · Nov 30, 2005

In relation to sally characters: the desire to be married does not grant exemption from the rules binding those who don't. The married man should be supportive of his wife and pray that through Jesus she will overcome her issues and see sex as a gift from God. As Stan said the standard righteousness is set by God not by the individuals needs/desires.

I wasnt suggesting that they are exempt from Gods laws or are a law unto themselves. These are not characters but are real men i know that are struggling in two real circumstances and have been praying and seeking God. The scripture I quoted for their circumstance was that God does provide a way out for them in I Cor 10; 12-14.
I have been anti masturbation untill I read this thread and saw that the issue was not about the masturbation but how it was done. This is what is clear in scripture.

bliz · Nov 30, 2005

BrotherAtArms said:
Now leave me alone

How rude of us to come to your home and drag you over to the computer and force you to type responses to our posts! How dare we!

praying · Nov 30, 2005

bliz said:
How rude of us to come to your home and drag you over to the computer and force you to type responses to our posts! How dare we!

micknick · Nov 30, 2005

as someone who has and does struggle with masturbation: i do not desire masturbation in and of itself but as a release of sexual tension built up by lust or when it has become a habit. even if the act itself can be done without lustful thoughts (which i don't believe), there are still lustful thoughts preceding and following the act. masturbation cannot be separated from lust.

BrotherAtArms · Nov 30, 2005

sally.b said:
Well all i can say is I think BrotherAtArms is pretty rude when he comes in and says what he likes when he likes and then has the hide and audacity to tell everyone not to reply to him !!!
hmmph!! He doesnt get my post at all and then wades me down with a heap of scripture that is irrelevant to what I said, but I cant even debate that with him!
Why does he bother to come on a forum ????

How rude of you to not honor the fact that i've been talking about the RELLEVENT fact that God has shown in many scriptures that it's a sexual immorality and i'm tired of talking about it, if I say something (Which is actually what the Bible says) and you bash it down, yes, I'm going to defend it. You're arguing with the Bible, not me.

I think that's very rude that you should criticize someone for not wanting to continue talking about this, because no matter what I or anyone has said thus far, I have seen no one's mind being changed, how rude of you to criticize me for being tired of defending what I say. It's getting old and annoying after a week of doing it.

praying · Nov 30, 2005

BrotherAtArms said:
How rude of you to not honor the fact that i've been talking about the RELLEVENT fact that God has shown in many scriptures that it's a sexual immorality and i'm tired of talking about it, if I say something (Which is actually what the Bible says) and you bash it down, yes, I'm going to defend it. You're arguing with the Bible, not me.

I think that's very rude that you should criticize someone for not wanting to continue talking about this, because no matter what I or anyone has said thus far, I have seen no one's mind being changed, how rude of you to criticize me for being tired of defending what I say. It's getting old and annoying after a week of doing it.

No one has a problem with not discussing it anymore the problem arises from people posting and then stating now leave me alone, so they can get the last word in. If you don't want to post, don't but don't post and then say leave me alone, it's childish.

BrotherAtArms · Nov 30, 2005

It's childish to be tired of defending what I say? You could show a bit more maturity and ignore it, eh?

praying · Nov 30, 2005

BrotherAtArms said:
It's childish to be tired of defending what I say? You could show a bit more maturity and ignore it, eh?

Certainly not, there is nothing wrong with defending what you post but telling people to leave you alone is questionable. You can't post ona public message board and then say leave me alone.

ETA: Well you can but people won't.

Akathist · Nov 30, 2005

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Is it wrong to touch?

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