Is it worth it?

KCKID · May 28, 2008

ChaliceThunder said:
I don't think I've changed anybody's mind/heart on the issue. Sadly, there have been days here at CF when my own heart has been even more hardened against those who hold opinions different than mine. It's why I don't come here very often anymore. I pray that my heart will be more open to those who disagree with me.

I love Jesus. Jesus knows I love and serve Him. He's fine with my being gay, and has blessed me with a wonderful man so that we might share our lives together and give glory to Him in the Church and in the World through that loving relationship.

There will be those who disagree - that's fine. Their words and misinterpretation of several Scripture verses have no affect on our relationship with God and with each other - thank God!

I've only stayed here to try and help people see that they needn't be bound by judgmental attitudes. As is plain to tell, there has been little to no change.

But thanks be to God anyway; for His infinite patience, love and mercy will bring us all into the Kingdom.

Don't sell yourself short, CT. Your very post above may very well cause some to at least ponder on the issue. It certainly made an impression on me. Well done.

Miracle Storm · May 28, 2008

I am stealing a bit of bamboo Chicken's signature as it brought tears to my eyes and makes all the sense in the world...
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the little voice at the end of the day that says "I'll try again tomorrow".
~Mary Anne Radmacher"

Certainly all those who come in here and say "Yeah, it's worth it to fight for someone else" Even when seemingly no progress is being made, but they do it day after day after day and keep trying..wow.
You know before I started this thread I was thinking to myself what is the point in all this debating..I didn't think it was worth it.

And when I started the poll my line of thinking was "Is it changing anyone's mind"

But to those lovely people that don't come here to change someone's mind, instead to STAND for someone else makes it worth it!

doh is not just here for those who want to condem others or declare their self righteousness, but for those who come to defend in Jesus' name!

keep the faith

2 corinthians 6 said:
3We put no stumbling block in anyone's path, so that our ministry will not be discredited. 4Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses; 5in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger; 6in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; 7in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left; 8through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as impostors; 9known, yet regarded as unknown; dying, and yet we live on; beaten, and yet not killed; 10sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything.
11We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians, and opened wide our hearts to you. 12We are not withholding our affection from you, but you are withholding yours from us. 13As a fair exchange—I speak as to my children—open wide your hearts also

Love

1 corinthians 13 said:
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Texas Lynn · May 28, 2008

lincolngreen50 said:
[FONT=&quot]I have been very congenial in my posts which did not warrant this aggression from you. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Bullying and calling people names is obviously not going to get you the response you were looking for.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So if I appear curt and short it is because of your accusations and your finger pointing.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]You falsely accusing people of harming other people. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You show me what harm have I OR OTHERS done except quote scripture.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This is a CHRISTIAN debate board. It is called choice: to debate or leave.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]You falsely accuse people of hatred. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Did I say I hated anyone?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Those are your words and not mine. Why are you putting words into my mouth that I did not say. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You will not find any words that insinuated hatred towards anyone from my posts. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]By insinuating that we would tattoo people's arms for identification, I assume you are comparing us to the Nazi's????Six million Jews died at the hands of Hitler so where do you see gays or lesbians dying from the hands of Christians?????[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The only Hitler or Nazi in this scene happens to be one that can kill anyone but is prevalent especially in the gay and lesbian community it is called AIDS.....but I am sure we somehow be accuse us of giving AIDS to them, too... since we are being accused of stealing Jesus from people. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Our bible says what it says. Either some believe or they don't. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I do not know the mind of God except what is written in my bible AND NEITHER DO YOU KNOW THE MIND OF GOD.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I just state what is in his word. It doesn't mean you have to like it. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As long as there are those who come on a Christian forum trying to tell others how to worship God and how to interpret their bibles, you will not be able to silence their voices. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is called Freedom of Speech. The one law that is giving your the right to have your say and the one law that is giving me my right to have my say. ,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Up until now you have appeared to have been a congenial. person.You appeared at first, to have respected other people's views despite our differences...but I was wrong. [/FONT]

Advocating those with whom you disagree be silenced is not to support them. Your religious affiliation is not my concern. You certainly have a right to your opinion but when you identify it as "the Christian opinion" that will be challenged. Deal with it.

Apollo Celestio · May 28, 2008

I don't know if I have changed anyone's views, I'm mostly here to stop people from saying Christians who think same sex sex is sin (because it is in the scriptures) are bigots, hate mongers, and akin to nazis. I hope that I've helped some see at least that. On the topic overall, I don't think I can convict anyone.

Texas Lynn · May 28, 2008

Ishida said:
I don't know if I have changed anyone's views, I'm mostly here to stop people from saying Christians who think same sex sex is sin (because it is in the scriptures) are bigots, hate mongers, and akin to nazis. I hope that I've helped some see at least that. On the topic overall, I don't think I can convict anyone.

Let's compare it to another theological dispute, that of Sunday Sabbath advocates (most Christians) and advocates of a Saturday Sabbath (Seventh-Day Adventists, some Pentecostals, etc.). While the latter are fervent in their belief, their primary concern is that they and their fellows not be subjected to job discrimination for refusal to work on Saturdays. Most Christians of the mainstream type acknowledge this as a legitimate concern.

Not so with this issue. The Religius Right seeks to harm LGBTs in every way possible including fighting against health insurance for LGBT couples and their children. That may not be naziism, but it is hatred and bigotry and there is no denying that.

Apollo Celestio · May 28, 2008

I guess I have to differentiate this religious right from servants of the Lord? I won't deny what it is, but my post was a little more personal, about me and maybe others who post on this forum.

Bamboo_Chicken · May 29, 2008

Texas Lynn said:
That may not be naziism, but it is hatred and bigotry and there is no denying that.

Sorry to only quote this part, but can I ask, is it hatred and bigotry, or fear, or faith, or a mixture of them all?

When people started to find out that my partner and I were dating, the pastor at her church was somehow also informed. He called her one day to tell her that we were both evil, but that it was ok because he was going to do all he could to save us. I have seen many similar stances to different topics here on CF and in other areas of life, yet I often find it difficult to believe that it is simply hatred that fuels these. Everybody in here believes they're right, or that, at the very least, they know some version of the truth. We all fight for what we believe in - the danger and hurt seems to come when what we believe in becomes who we are. We lose our securities and anything contrary to our own beliefs becomes a threat to the very core of who we are. We fear the things we don't understand and cling to our faith to get us through.

I believe that members of the LGBT community should have equal rights - I'd love to have the chance to marry my partner one day, but in Australia that would involve changing our entire consitution. I believe that I should be able to walk down the street holding her hand without people staring. Luckily we haven't been subjected to hate crimes like other couples have. Provided it doesn't lead to violence though, I can't really fault those who have different stances to mine. If someone beliefs that my relationship with my partner is evil, I wouldn't ask them to promote it.

Ave Maria · May 29, 2008

I voted 1-3. The reason I believe I have affected 1-3 people is because the truth, just like scripture, will not return void.

Texas Lynn · May 29, 2008

Ishida said:
I guess I have to differentiate this religious right from servants of the Lord? I won't deny what it is, but my post was a little more personal, about me and maybe others who post on this forum.

I hear this sort of thing somewhat often. People who post religious right views on message boards claim no responsibility for what the religious right does, but they enable them with the posting of the views they post. Your words support the religious right's activities and hence the hatred and violence against LGBTs they advocate.

Texas Lynn · May 29, 2008

Bamboo_Chicken said:
is it hatred and bigotry, or fear, or faith, or a mixture of them all?

Throw in ignorance and you've about got it covered.

stumpjumper · May 29, 2008

MOD HAT POST:

I think we can address the issue and respond to the OP without insulting other people or groups of people.

From the forum guidelines:
Loaded words like "hater," "bigot," "pervert," "homo," etc. are strictly forbidden.

Also, if your post has been deleted, do not repost it.

Thank you.

Apollo Celestio · May 29, 2008

Texas Lynn said:
I hear this sort of thing somewhat often. People who post religious right views on message boards claim no responsibility for what the religious right does, but they enable them with the posting of the views they post. Your words support the religious right's activities and hence the hatred and violence against LGBTs they advocate.

..It's scriptural, nothing to do with this "religious right". One, I'm for gay adoption and rights and benefits since they are citizens, and neutral on gay marriage, because what man thinks won't change what God thinks. I'd like to think of myself as my own person..

It's like telling an atheist they support the bible because they think well of "Treat others as you would like to be treated.."

Texas Lynn · May 29, 2008

Ishida said:
..It's scriptural, nothing to do with this "religious right".

"Scriptural" is meaningless to non-Fundamentalists. It has everything to do with the religious right or else you would not be addressing their favorite topic.

One, I'm for gay adoption and rights and benefits since they are citizens, and neutral on gay marriage, because what man thinks won't change what God thinks. I'd like to think of myself as my own person..

Wonderful, wonderful.

It's like telling an atheist they support the bible because they think well of "Treat others as you would like to be treated.."

Lost me there, sport.

Apollo Celestio · May 29, 2008

Texas Lynn said:
"Scriptural" is meaningless to non-Fundamentalists. It has everything to do with the religious right or else you would not be addressing their favorite topic.

I don't believe that.
The resurrection is "scriptural", you know..

Lost me there, sport.

Just because I have an opinion doesn't mean I have some card for the religious right and associate with them.

Texas Lynn · May 29, 2008

Ishida said:
I don't believe that.
The resurrection is "scriptural", you know..

When you put it that way, I agree.

John Wesley said, "In essentials, unity; in nonessentials, liberty; in all things, love."

Certainly the resurrection is generally considered in that regard an "essential" while matters of political correctness would be "nonessentials".

Just because I have an opinion doesn't mean I have some card for the religious right and associate with them.

I hear that from time to time. There's also validity to the idea that "if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then..."

Apollo Celestio · May 29, 2008

Because it offends people, and it's false witness usually. Bearing false witness against someone else is a sin.

Texas Lynn · May 30, 2008

Better yet, why are all of the examples one-sided? It appears to give a net advantage to those prejudiced against LGBTs.

Texas Lynn · May 30, 2008

Ishida said:
Because it offends people, and it's false witness usually. Bearing false witness against someone else is a sin.

False witness would be things like LGBTs are depraved and degenerate, care only about sex, have a "gay lifestyle", have diseases, etc. When people seek to harm others and their families it is not false witness to state so. Things like seeking to deny LGBT families health insurance is an act of pure unadulterated hatred and there are no two ways of looking at that.

Phinehas2 · May 30, 2008

Dear onemessiah,
I think we should be focusiing on the issues themselves not our opinions about others positions on the issues. Otherwise we may end up merely with contradictions with one position prejudiced and bigoted against gays and the other prejudiced and bigoted against God's purposes.

Phinehas2 · May 30, 2008

Dear Texas Lynn,
The problem is many see 'LGBT families' is an oxymoron, two people of the same sex cannot conceive children so to many there is no such thing as it goes against nature.
Your position seems to be implying one must accept your position or one is being hateful. I personally cannot accpet your position whether you think it is bigoted hateful prejudice or whatever, but if you are implying one shouldnt be allowed to be expressing views you personally feel are bigoted, prejudice and hateful, I would suggest that is an example of being bigoted, prejudice and hateful.

I wouldnt like to see the thread closed just because we end up throwing accusations at each other, in the end we may just have to agree to disagree as fellow forum posters.

Is it worth it?

How many people do you believe you have affected positively in DOH?

Absolutely none.

1-3

4-6

7-9

10 or more

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Deal with it.

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Ave Maria Gratia Plena

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Left the river, made it to the sea

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