Is it time to leave?

[commonlaw]

This is my first time posting here, and I fear it will be a long post so bear with me. I have been with my girlfriend for about 4 1/2 years. We began dating while we were both in college. Early on in our relationship, I disclosed that I had struggled with pornography before, although did not say to what extent. Things were going well then, although she was always somewhat touchy about the pornography subject. When I graduated and moved away to law school we maintained a long distance relationship. Within a few months of moving away, I fell back into pornography. Not only this, but I began browsing and responding "Casual Encounter" ads on Craigslist. I talked with other woman in chat rooms and had cybersex. While I never had any intention of meeting any of these woman in the real world, I full acknowledge that what I did was adultery.
This story is common enough that you know how it goes: she eventually discovered my emails, and the truth came out. I was not strong enough at first to come out with the whole truth, so it slowly came out over the period of weeks and months. We had fights over the phone several times a day. Needless to say, this just about destroyed her and me. She had been cheated on (in the real life way) by two boyfriends in the past. I installed adult content-blocking software on my computer, and I began seeing a therapist at my school's counseling center. We made it through this together, although looking back I am not sure if it was because she believed I could change or if neither of us were strong enough to leave the other.
Flash forward to about nine months later. She came to live with me at law school. While it seemed like we repaired a lot of the damage, there were still a lot of outbursts at me. She would often question me about the details of the events that took place, and I would often find her going through my internet history. 90% of the time things were great, but another 10% of the time I felt like I was living with someone who hated me. Occasionally, our fights would get bad enough that she would become violent with me. I am a big dude and used to play football, so I was never "knocked out" or anything like that, but she did sometime leave me with marks on the skin.
From then to the present things have gotten better, but we have never fully recovered. I have had a couple relapses (looked at pictures of girls on Facebook, etc.), but nothing that rose to the level of what I did before. But the trust has never fully come back. I have, however, learned a lot more about myself and gained a lot of self-esteem back from the incident. I have come to realize that I will always be tempted by the image of the opposite sex, but that its my behavior that matters. I cant always choose what I see, but I can choose not to stare, or not to click one link further on my computer, etc. I discussed this with her today, as what happened 2 1/2 years ago came up again. She became so enraged at me that she struck out at me again. She says that I am a pervert, and that she can never trust me.
I really do love this girl, but I don't know if things are ever going to get better. I desperately want her to trust me again, but I don't know if either of us believes she ever will. Moreover, I don't want to be in a household where violence is used in disputes. I am nearly 26, and I am about to graduate from law school. I have a great job lined up in a major city, and up until now I have thought we were in this together. But after today, the doubts are really strong. We had discussed marriage recently, but after today it makes that seem so far away.
I'll leave it there. What should I do?

 

[Grace51]

This is my first time posting here, and I fear it will be a long post so bear with me. I have been with my girlfriend for about 4 1/2 years. We began dating while we were both in college. Early on in our relationship, I disclosed that I had struggled with pornography before, although did not say to what extent. Things were going well then, although she was always somewhat touchy about the pornography subject. When I graduated and moved away to law school we maintained a long distance relationship. Within a few months of moving away, I fell back into pornography. Not only this, but I began browsing and responding "Casual Encounter" ads on Craigslist. I talked with other woman in chat rooms and had cybersex. While I never had any intention of meeting any of these woman in the real world, I full acknowledge that what I did was adultery.
This story is common enough that you know how it goes: she eventually discovered my emails, and the truth came out. I was not strong enough at first to come out with the whole truth, so it slowly came out over the period of weeks and months. We had fights over the phone several times a day. Needless to say, this just about destroyed her and me. She had been cheated on (in the real life way) by two boyfriends in the past. I installed adult content-blocking software on my computer, and I began seeing a therapist at my school's counseling center. We made it through this together, although looking back I am not sure if it was because she believed I could change or if neither of us were strong enough to leave the other.
Flash forward to about nine months later. She came to live with me at law school. While it seemed like we repaired a lot of the damage, there were still a lot of outbursts at me. She would often question me about the details of the events that took place, and I would often find her going through my internet history. 90% of the time things were great, but another 10% of the time I felt like I was living with someone who hated me. Occasionally, our fights would get bad enough that she would become violent with me. I am a big dude and used to play football, so I was never "knocked out" or anything like that, but she did sometime leave me with marks on the skin.
From then to the present things have gotten better, but we have never fully recovered. I have had a couple relapses (looked at pictures of girls on Facebook, etc.), but nothing that rose to the level of what I did before. But the trust has never fully come back. I have, however, learned a lot more about myself and gained a lot of self-esteem back from the incident. I have come to realize that I will always be tempted by the image of the opposite sex, but that its my behavior that matters. I cant always choose what I see, but I can choose not to stare, or not to click one link further on my computer, etc. I discussed this with her today, as what happened 2 1/2 years ago came up again. She became so enraged at me that she struck out at me again. She says that I am a pervert, and that she can never trust me.
I really do love this girl, but I don't know if things are ever going to get better. I desperately want her to trust me again, but I don't know if either of us believes she ever will. Moreover, I don't want to be in a household where violence is used in disputes. I am nearly 26, and I am about to graduate from law school. I have a great job lined up in a major city, and up until now I have thought we were in this together. But after today, the doubts are really strong. We had discussed marriage recently, but after today it makes that seem so far away.
I'll leave it there. What should I do?

well, you say you love her. but you also know you two are not in healthy relationship right now.

unless she is willing to acknowledge that and start to work on those issues with you, as well as her issues of distrust. You two may end up stuck in the relationship pattern you have now. Which is not going to be good for either of you.

maybe you can talk with her again. before you start the talk, reassure her that you love her very much and that is why it is so imp for you for your relationship to work ( just so she know you are coming from a good place). and then tell her those concerns you have just shared with us. And tell her you would like you two to work those issues out together with a counselor etc.

tell her you suggesting this for the long term future of your relationship.

Also she might get defensive and accuse your relapse as part of the problem. if she does ( and i think she will), you need to remember that while you did not do it on purpose, you still hurted her quite deeply, and it was a betrayl of her trust. my point is, do not become defensive when she says this. instead acknowledge you have a part to play also, and apologise to her again and reassure her you will everything you can to deal with your issue. Getting defensive on either side will not solve a thing at all. rather taking resp will.

but i get the feeling you already know that continuing the way you two are now is not a good long term solution.

also sometimes when both parties have issues they struggle with. take some time off relationship may not be such a bad idea. it give both parties room to cool off, and reevaluate things objectively. But you will have to decide with your gf whether that might be the way for you to go.

also your icon says you are Catholic. but are you a born again christian. if you are, beside everything you are doing right now ( which i think is great). you also need to leave it in prayer with the Lord and ask Him to guide you and your gf.

 

[vortigen84]

This is my first time posting here, and I fear it will be a long post so bear with me. I have been with my girlfriend for about 4 1/2 years. We began dating while we were both in college. Early on in our relationship, I disclosed that I had struggled with pornography before, although did not say to what extent. Things were going well then, although she was always somewhat touchy about the pornography subject. When I graduated and moved away to law school we maintained a long distance relationship. Within a few months of moving away, I fell back into pornography. Not only this, but I began browsing and responding "Casual Encounter" ads on Craigslist. I talked with other woman in chat rooms and had cybersex. While I never had any intention of meeting any of these woman in the real world, I full acknowledge that what I did was adultery.
This story is common enough that you know how it goes: she eventually discovered my emails, and the truth came out. I was not strong enough at first to come out with the whole truth, so it slowly came out over the period of weeks and months. We had fights over the phone several times a day. Needless to say, this just about destroyed her and me. She had been cheated on (in the real life way) by two boyfriends in the past. I installed adult content-blocking software on my computer, and I began seeing a therapist at my school's counseling center. We made it through this together, although looking back I am not sure if it was because she believed I could change or if neither of us were strong enough to leave the other.
Flash forward to about nine months later. She came to live with me at law school. While it seemed like we repaired a lot of the damage, there were still a lot of outbursts at me. She would often question me about the details of the events that took place, and I would often find her going through my internet history. 90% of the time things were great, but another 10% of the time I felt like I was living with someone who hated me. Occasionally, our fights would get bad enough that she would become violent with me. I am a big dude and used to play football, so I was never "knocked out" or anything like that, but she did sometime leave me with marks on the skin.
From then to the present things have gotten better, but we have never fully recovered. I have had a couple relapses (looked at pictures of girls on Facebook, etc.), but nothing that rose to the level of what I did before. But the trust has never fully come back. I have, however, learned a lot more about myself and gained a lot of self-esteem back from the incident. I have come to realize that I will always be tempted by the image of the opposite sex, but that its my behavior that matters. I cant always choose what I see, but I can choose not to stare, or not to click one link further on my computer, etc. I discussed this with her today, as what happened 2 1/2 years ago came up again. She became so enraged at me that she struck out at me again. She says that I am a pervert, and that she can never trust me.
I really do love this girl, but I don't know if things are ever going to get better. I desperately want her to trust me again, but I don't know if either of us believes she ever will. Moreover, I don't want to be in a household where violence is used in disputes. I am nearly 26, and I am about to graduate from law school. I have a great job lined up in a major city, and up until now I have thought we were in this together. But after today, the doubts are really strong. We had discussed marriage recently, but after today it makes that seem so far away.
I'll leave it there. What should I do?

Well you've been dating over 4 years. Do you want her or not? Why aren't you married yet?

You need to be decisive, know what you want, and stop mucking her about.

Propose to her, if you want her.

If she says no, move on.

If she says maybe, move on.

If she says yes, then act like a husband with a wife, not a foolish boy with a "girlfriend." She's not a girl anyway, she's a woman.

Who do you want to have sex with? Her, or someone else? If her, then why aren't you married already? This will probably be on her mind. She doesn't want to be screwed around, you know? Intimacy requires vulnerability, and you have already violated her trust in a sexual way:

Matthew 5:27-28

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.​

She sounds to me like she is jealous for you, and is highly frustrated at your behaviour. This is understandable.

So, take her for a wife, or cease fooling with her and move on.

Be decisive.

 

[NiobiumTragedy]

I'll be blatantly honest... your relationship is not going to end well on this track. She needs counseling and help much like you do. While you made mistakes, it's still no reason or excuse for her trust issues. Going through your internet history, all the questions about things in the past... she needs to get over them if they are truly in the past and she truly forgave you because her actions are not healthy for herself or for the relationship.

At this point, I would give her a stipulation: she gets help for her problems or it's over.

I can guarantee that if you marry this girl without her working these issues out, you'll be the lawyer for your own divorce case not before long.

 

[The Nihilist]

This is my first time posting here, and I fear it will be a long post so bear with me. I have been with my girlfriend for about 4 1/2 years. We began dating while we were both in college. Early on in our relationship, I disclosed that I had struggled with pornography before, although did not say to what extent. Things were going well then, although she was always somewhat touchy about the pornography subject. When I graduated and moved away to law school we maintained a long distance relationship. Within a few months of moving away, I fell back into pornography. Not only this, but I began browsing and responding "Casual Encounter" ads on Craigslist. I talked with other woman in chat rooms and had cybersex. While I never had any intention of meeting any of these woman in the real world, I full acknowledge that what I did was adultery.
This story is common enough that you know how it goes: she eventually discovered my emails, and the truth came out. I was not strong enough at first to come out with the whole truth, so it slowly came out over the period of weeks and months. We had fights over the phone several times a day. Needless to say, this just about destroyed her and me. She had been cheated on (in the real life way) by two boyfriends in the past. I installed adult content-blocking software on my computer, and I began seeing a therapist at my school's counseling center. We made it through this together, although looking back I am not sure if it was because she believed I could change or if neither of us were strong enough to leave the other.
Flash forward to about nine months later. She came to live with me at law school. While it seemed like we repaired a lot of the damage, there were still a lot of outbursts at me. She would often question me about the details of the events that took place, and I would often find her going through my internet history. 90% of the time things were great, but another 10% of the time I felt like I was living with someone who hated me. Occasionally, our fights would get bad enough that she would become violent with me. I am a big dude and used to play football, so I was never "knocked out" or anything like that, but she did sometime leave me with marks on the skin.
From then to the present things have gotten better, but we have never fully recovered. I have had a couple relapses (looked at pictures of girls on Facebook, etc.), but nothing that rose to the level of what I did before. But the trust has never fully come back. I have, however, learned a lot more about myself and gained a lot of self-esteem back from the incident. I have come to realize that I will always be tempted by the image of the opposite sex, but that its my behavior that matters. I cant always choose what I see, but I can choose not to stare, or not to click one link further on my computer, etc. I discussed this with her today, as what happened 2 1/2 years ago came up again. She became so enraged at me that she struck out at me again. She says that I am a pervert, and that she can never trust me.
I really do love this girl, but I don't know if things are ever going to get better. I desperately want her to trust me again, but I don't know if either of us believes she ever will. Moreover, I don't want to be in a household where violence is used in disputes. I am nearly 26, and I am about to graduate from law school. I have a great job lined up in a major city, and up until now I have thought we were in this together. But after today, the doubts are really strong. We had discussed marriage recently, but after today it makes that seem so far away.
I'll leave it there. What should I do?

Don't stay with someone who's violent. No matter what you've done, you don't deserve that.

 

[The Nihilist]

Well you've been dating over 4 years. Do you want her or not? Why aren't you married yet?

You need to be decisive, know what you want, and stop mucking her about.

Propose to her, if you want her.

If she says no, move on.

If she says maybe, move on.

If she says yes, then act like a husband with a wife, not a foolish boy with a "girlfriend." She's not a girl anyway, she's a woman.

Who do you want to have sex with? Her, or someone else? If her, then why aren't you married already? This will probably be on her mind. She doesn't want to be screwed around, you know? Intimacy requires vulnerability, and you have already violated her trust in a sexual way:

Matthew 5:27-28

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.​

She sounds to me like she is jealous for you, and is highly frustrated at your behaviour. This is understandable.

So, take her for a wife, or cease fooling with her and move on.

Be decisive.

Don't be stupid. This man should not stay with someone who is violent.

 

[vortigen84]

Don't be stupid. This man should not stay with someone who is violent.

Fair enough, seeing as she's not really his wife anyway.

Over 4 years dating is still ridiculous though.

 

[nursered]

My advice would be, to both of you, not to continue this relationship out of habit. Sometimes when people put in several years of dating, they are comfortable and don't want to start over. It seems like there are plenty of warning signs here for both of you to go your separate ways, but that decision is ultimately yours. If you "love" someone, you don't treat them the way you have and are treating each other.
Good luck to you both. Not everyone finds their match by the time they are 25 years old, so don't rush to fit someone into a slot they aren't met to fit.

 

[Melethiel]

Don't stay with someone who's violent. No matter what you've done, you don't deserve that.

This.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

Don't stay with someone who's violent. No matter what you've done, you don't deserve that.

Agreed. Get out of that relationship asap.

 

[LinkH]

A woman hitting her husband is not consistent with the Biblical teaching for a wife to submit to her husband and reverence him. She's not your wife, though. Do you think the dynamic between you will instantly change if you marry her? Probably not. Not unless she repents over the violence issue. If I were you, I wouldn't marry her unless she repented over this and there were a real change and commitment on her part not to be violent toward you. She also shouldn't be yelling at you, chewing you out, etc. You should be talking to each other in a respectful manner if you are going to get married. You don't need a woman who frequently hits you. Some domestic violence cases where the police get involved are cases where the woman often hits the man, and then the man, in a one off case, hits her back, the police are called, and he goes to jail. There is some research on this that shows that this happens in a significant number of cases. She might not be able to hurt you badly easily, but you don't need the constant temptation.

Yes, you messed up. You sinned. You have admitted your sin. I can understand why trust is an issue with her, but she has to forgive and get past it if you are to move on with your relationship. If she doesn't have some minimal level of trust and respect for you, I don't see why you should marry. On the other hand, if you are both believers, and you had taken her virginity--especially with an understanding that you would marry, I might say something different. But you say you are waiting for marriage. If you haven't taken anything from her but time and attention, I wouldn't feel obligated to marry her if I were you. Have you promised marriage? That's another issue.

I agree with the poster who said 4 and a half years is way too long to date a girl before getting marriage. In your case, I can understand if you both wanted you to finish college and law school before marrying-- especially if you don't believe in birth control in marriage. It sounds like she has spent 4+ years of her life waiting for you to get out. On the one hand, you have taken up a lot of each other's time and emotional investment. On the other, if the dynamic doesn't change, marriage could mean a lot of suffering for the both of you. Is it more loving to cut her loose and let her find someone she can start over with and trust, or to marry her? If you two can work things out where she has forgiven you, loves you, trusts you, treats you with respect, submissiveness, and honor as she should-- and you can love her like Christ loves the church and be faithful to her-- why wouldn't you marry?

If you are going to cut her loose, don't keep dragging it out. If I were you, I'd sit down and have a conversation with her. I'd tell her I'd been thinking this was leading to marriage for years, acknowledge my mistakes, and then tell her all about the bad dynamics of the relationship. I'd mention that I was wondering if it would be healthy to take all these problems into a marriage or terminate the dating relationship. I'd also point out some changes that she would need to make if the relationship were to continue and turn into something more. If I were you, I'd also lay some very firm ground rules that she is not allowed to hit you, and go through the scripture with her about husbands and wives and explain why this is a big no-no in marriage. If she isn't willing to take steps to change on her part (especially regarding the violence), I might break it off with her, or just give it a few days for both of you to think and pray about it and then break it off. Pray with her during this process and ask for the Lord's guidance. Pray for her attitude toward you with her. Confess yours sins to one another and pray one for another. Should could deal with some bitterness issue toward you, which could clear you to move forward.

 

[K9_Trainer]

Her hitting you and having violent outbursts is outright abuse. It doesn't matter that she's a woman and you're a man, or that it's not physically hurting you, or that she's doing it in response to your blunders. Abuse is abuse and you shouldn't tolerate it, it's never ok.

If you really want to salvage the relationship, you need to get yourself and her into couples counseling. Don't even think about marrying her right now.

 

[peckaboo]

A woman hitting her husband is not consistent with the Biblical teaching for a wife to submit to her husband and reverence him. She's not your wife, though. Do you think the dynamic between you will instantly change if you marry her? Probably not. Not unless she repents over the violence issue. If I were you, I wouldn't marry her unless she repented over this and there were a real change and commitment on her part not to be violent toward you.

This.

From the point of view of a woman who's only just learning, aged 27, not to resolve arguments with violence, that dynamic doesn't change just because you have a ring on your finger. It takes a lot of hard work, and self-control, and prayer, and a conscious decision on her part to change the way that she thinks, not just the way that she acts. Our actions are borne of our thoughts, and I'll tell you from experience that if she doesn't commit to addressing her thought life, probably through counselling, her behaviour won't change either.

 

[tacha]

This may be a little blunt but I think some of the "get out now" advice is kind of ignorant and immature. My boyfriend and I have been dating for over four years. We have talked about marriage for over 3 years but because of our age, me being in college and he in the military we have been waiting (we've been long distance with the exception of summer/christmas breaks for about 3 years). We plan to be engaged within the year. Back in December he came home for Christmas and I discovered some texts in his phone (he wasn't cheating). We had to deal with some MAJOR hurt and distrust in our relationship. I found out he had been lying to me about some things so that I would not get angry and these things brought a few other major issues to surface. Wrapped up in my emotions I felt like I had been lied to for years, I was hurt beyond anything I had ever felt, and I was even unsure of how deeply he truly loved me. It's so easy for someone on the outside of a relationship to say "dump him." I think some people forget to take into consideration the years of memories and the intimate friendship you build over years of dating when you truly love someone. In my emotions I felt like I would never be able to trust him again and that there wasn't any way that things would ever get better. We had been talking about marriage on this same trip home just a day before the texts were discovered. Today we are happier and more in love than other and I trust what he tells me. Some days it is harder for me than others because I think back to December and remind myself of mistakes me had made. It's hard to understand how someone can love you and then do something so stupid that would cause you so much pain. That's probably how she feels about your past. Even though it's far in the past maybe she has not handed laid it down. I had to make a very conscious decision to forgive him and give it to God. I believe God is the only One who can heal a heart that broken and untrusting. My boyfriend has done everything in his power to rebuild the trust and to express how much more he loves me than the things he was lying to me about. It sounds like you are also definitely trying to rebuild the trust with the blocking software and counseling. My boyfriend offers me information that I don't even ask for sometimes just to be considerate and to show me that he is being intentional about building trust. If I ask him something because my heart is still weary of trust sometimes he doesn't accuse me of doubting him or not trusting him. He is understanding of the time it will take and is patient in being completely open. Of course, I am learning to be more trusting and not questioning everything too. It wouldn't be healthy if I never showed him that I do have faith in his decisions and honesty. It just takes understanding on both sides.

I say all this just to try to give you a little hope. Also, to advise you to slow down if you are feeling completely hopeless. Simply from my experience...if I had made a decision in those moments of hopelessness I would not be dating my best friend and God would still be picking up the pieces to 2 broken hearts. Some practical advice...What really helped me to think clearly was to write. Every time we tried to talk about the issues I would start crying and he would shut down emotionally and become silent. The conversation that really began to bring hope and healing back happened over email. Maybe this doesn't help with everyone but I've discovered written words have helped tremendously in our relationship. Maybe you could write her a very honest letter. Reaffirm your love for her, how much you desire and need her trust in you, how hard you are willing to work to build that trust...and then maybe in the same letter/maybe in a different, be honest about your concerns over the physical fighting. Maybe you could suggest counseling together? Since December we have also been very deliberate about growing spiritually together. It's amazing what God can do. It's a lot easier to trust my boyfriend when we are reading the Bible together every night (skype) and praying with each other - for eachother, for our relationship, and about our downfalls. When you know that you are seeking God together in your relationship the walls of anger, bitterness, distrust and doubting seem to fall away as God blesses your relationship with the love He wants for your relationship.

I just don't think the advice to leave now because of her issues is very wise advice. I am not saying this to bring back your past in an accusing way like "you suck" just to maybe put things in perspective. You made mistakes years ago that hurt her emotionally. Emotional hurt can take a long time to heal. You had to own up to your mistakes, to repent, and to take actions to show her that your sin would not define you and that you were not going fall into those temptations. She will have to do the same thing. I am not in any way saying that her pain justifies her actions. I'm saying to give her time, to be honest with her about it, and to forgive and do what you ask her to do - hand it over to God and let it go.

When I read your post I felt so sad for you guys. The hopelessness sounds so familiar. I hope you can find some hope in our recent experience. God can heal any heart and He can change attitudes. He can bring peace. I'm praying God will do that for you two together.

 

[Melethiel]

We're not saying he should leave because there's issues; we're saying he should leave because there's violence.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

We're not saying he should leave because there's issues; we're saying he should leave because there's violence.

Exactly.

Having issues as opposed to having issues coupled with violence are two totally separate things. He needs to break up with her and keep this experience in mind for future reference as he continues to look for a potential mate: stay away from women who are prone to violence.

 

[K9_Trainer]

Yes.

Nobody would EVER suggest that a woman stay with a man who is abusive (especially physically) and try to "work it out". We all understand very well the dangers of controlling, abusive men. To treat this situation differently and more mildly because the abuser is a woman and the victim is a man is outright sexist.

She's a danger to him, both physically and mentally. "Being a man" does not entail putting up with abuse from a woman, it's not right. She may just hit him now, and it may not leave a mark. But abuse can escalate. What if she comes at him with a knife next time? Or a blunt object? This is serious and he should not stay with her.

Like I said, if they really want to work it out, they need to get to couples therapy ASAP.