Is it possible for a christian to have worldly sorrow?

[Paz(peace)]

Can a christian have worldly sorrow or can a christian only produce godly sorrow?

8 For even if I made you grieve with my letter, I do not regret it-though I did regret it, for I see that that letter grieved you, though only for a while. 9 As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. 10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death. 11 For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves innocent in the matter. (2 Corinthians 7:8-11, ESV)

 

[Always in His Presence]

Define worldly sorrow.

 

[Hoping2]

Can a christian have worldly sorrow or can a christian only produce godly sorrow?

8 For even if I made you grieve with my letter, I do not regret it-though I did regret it, for I see that that letter grieved you, though only for a while. 9 As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. 10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death. 11 For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves innocent in the matter. (2 Corinthians 7:8-11, ESV)

A real Christian would have had Godly sorrow in order to become a Christian in the first place.
He would no longer be of this world, or its false sorrows.

 

[Mark Quayle]

A real Christian would have had Godly sorrow in order to become a Christian in the first place.
He would no longer be of this world, or its false sorrows.

The "old man" is still present in the redeemed regenerated believer. They are capable of less-than-Godly sorrow. To this I can personally attest, by my often less-than-substantive repentance.

 

[Hoping2]

The "old man" is still present in the redeemed regenerated believer. They are capable of less-than-Godly sorrow. To this I can personally attest, by my often less-than-substantive repentance.

Don't you believe in rebirth from God's seed ? (1 John 3:9)
Don't you believe 2 Cor 5:17 ? "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

 

[Mark Quayle]

Don't you believe in rebirth from God's seed ? (1 John 3:9)
Don't you believe 2 Cor 5:17 ? "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

I did not say that the "old man" is me. I said it is still present.

Don't you believe in 1 John 1? "8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

 

[Hoping2]

I did not say that the "old man" is me. I said it is still present.

Sounds like what I call the "bi-polar" doctrine.
You are one thing, but also another.

Don't you believe in 1 John 1? "8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

I do believe it, but realize that verses 6, 8, and 10, apply to those who walk in darkness (sin).
They do not apply to those who walk in the light (God).

 

[Mark Quayle]

Sounds like what I call the "bi-polar" doctrine.
You are one thing, but also another.

I do believe it, but realize that verses 6, 8, and 10, apply to those who walk in darkness (sin).
They do not apply to those who walk in the light (God).

Where's your evidence that it is applying to those who walk in darkness? The person in verse 9 is contextually the same person as in the other verses.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Sounds like what I call the "bi-polar" doctrine.
You are one thing, but also another.

I do believe it, but realize that verses 6, 8, and 10, apply to those who walk in darkness (sin).
They do not apply to those who walk in the light (God).

I doubt very much that you can truthfully claim to be without sin, to never stumble and fall, to never have to fight against the "old man" within you, and against the continual rebellion rising up within you against God. I have talked with and heard speak, several who claim to no longer sin. I told one that I would like to speak to his wife for a few minutes about that. He laughed, and said that he means he never consciously behaves in rebellion against God. As old John Owen said, we must be killing sin, or it will be killing us. But you seem to think that is no longer necessary.

 

[Aaron112]

Most christians are humans. Most non-christians also are humans.

Can a christian have worldly sorrow or can a christian only produce godly sorrow?

 

[Hoping2]

Where's your evidence that it is applying to those who walk in darkness? The person in verse 9 is contextually the same person as in the other verses.

My evidence is the other verses in 1 John 1 that only apply to those who walk in God-the light.
Man can't walk in both at the same time.
Verse 9's confession is the starting point to walking in God.
That confession is followed by verse 7's washing of past sins by the blood of Christ.

 

[Hoping2]

I doubt very much that you can truthfully claim to be without sin, to never stumble and fall, to never have to fight against the "old man" within you, and against the continual rebellion rising up within you against God.

Thankfully, your doubts have no influence on my walk in the light.

I have talked with and heard speak, several who claim to no longer sin. I told one that I would like to speak to his wife for a few minutes about that. He laughed, and said that he means he never consciously behaves in rebellion against God. As old John Owen said, we must be killing sin, or it will be killing us. But you seem to think that is no longer necessary.

Those who say they don't commit sin are the most difficult to prove are liars.
But there are ways to either expose them or to prove them true.
Your prior 1 John 1 citing was one of those ways.

As sinless perfection, or perfectly obeying God, are not approved topics here, to continue on this line of thought, please PM me.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Thankfully, your doubts have no influence on my walk in the light.

Non-answer. Nobody is talking about my influence, but about the veracity of your notions; here about your use of 1 John 1.

Those who say they don't commit sin are the most difficult to prove are liars.
But there are ways to either expose them or to prove them true.
Your prior 1 John 1 citing was one of those ways.

As sinless perfection, or perfectly obeying God, are not approved topics here, to continue on this line of thought, please PM me.

I have no interest in PM'ing you. But what you have insisted on is evidence that the rules are well made.

 

[Mark Quayle]

My evidence is the other verses in 1 John 1 that only apply to those who walk in God-the light.
Man can't walk in both at the same time.
Verse 9's confession is the starting point to walking in God.
That confession is followed by verse 7's washing of past sins by the blood of Christ.

Where/how do 1 John 1:8 and 10 refer to walking in darkness? The only way is if one is actually claiming to be without sin. Notice that the 'we' of verse 9 shows no grammatic change of person from verses 5 to 10.

I would not recommend that anyone pretend to be 'without sin'.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I would not recommend that anyone pretend to be 'without sin'.

Agreed. Hell is no doubt overflowing with those who "are without sin". Meanwhile heaven is home only to those who, frankly, say, "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner."

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hoping2]

Non-answer.

It was a non-question.

Nobody is talking about my influence, but about the veracity of your notions; here about your use of 1 John 1.
I have no interest in PM'ing you. But what you have insisted on is evidence that the rules are well made.

So be it.

 

[Hoping2]

Where/how do 1 John 1:8 and 10 refer to walking in darkness?

Pro 4:19 says the way of the wicked is as darkness.
Darkness in 1 John 1, is sin !

The only way is if one is actually claiming to be without sin. Notice that the 'we' of verse 9 shows no grammatic change of person from verses 5 to 10.

Who then, is walking in the light...which is God ?
Not sinners, to be sure, as there is no darkness in Him.

I would not recommend that anyone pretend to be 'without sin'.

Neither would I.
But an actual walk in God is well worth the effort.

 

[Mark Quayle]

But an actual walk in God is well worth the effort.

On that, at least, we can agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Hoping2]

On that, at least, we can agree wholeheartedly.

Don't you think that sort of walk is possible ?