Is it Orthodox to believe in God directed evolution?

[Akathist]

My undergradutate degree was in religion and anthroplogy, so I have been taught evolutioninsm of humans in great (and tedious) detail in my physical anthropology classes.

As a Protestant (in the denominations and churches I attended) I didn't mention my belief in God directed evolution because I didn't want a debate. I just believed this and let it go.

But I was following a link someone put to the "Orthodox Church" by Bs. Kollistos Ware, and found on that site other on line texts about Orthodoxy.

Here is a link about Evolution and Orthodoxy:

http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0809/_P12.HTM

I don't know if this author is credible or not. Has anyone else explored this issue?

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

This is another one of those things that is not carved out in stone. You don't have to believe in theistic evolution to be Orthodox. I have, however, come across articles about it before from credible Orthodox people. I don't have the exact link on hand, but Bishop Mileant has written some good things in support of evolution (but not Darwinistic evolution). www.fatheralexander.org There are a couple links that talk about creation, so you might have to look around a little.

 

[Rilian]

I see no reason to suppose that a process of change or development wasn't part of God's design. The site GDE mentioned is a good one, and this article in particular Orthodoxy and Creationism probably covers what you're talking about.

I don't know if you've ever read it, but Touchstone Magazine just had a whole issue devoted to intelligent design which had a number of interesting articles.

 

[Dust and Ashes]

Thank you for these links. I have always had trouble reconciling Creation and Evolution because it is typically included by theistic evolutionists that man evolved from a lower form and the soul is an "emergent property of the brain" and that some higher animals probably have rudimentary souls, etc. I can't accept this because if it is not true that "by one man, sin entered the world." then how did sin and death enter the world? In fact, I always leaned toward a personal belief that God caused the earth to "bring forth" life then created man as His masterpiece by His own Hand. This helps a lot.

 

[Akathist]

I can't accept this because if it is not true that "by one man, sin entered the world." then how did sin and death enter the world? In fact, I always leaned toward a personal belief that God caused the earth to "bring forth" life then created man as His masterpiece by His own Hand. This helps a lot.

I struggled with that many times. I wonder if "death" refers to the death of mankind, not animals, and that "Adam" was the first homosapien that resemples us. Before that the species was not human.

Again, this is my own musings. I didn't read the links above yet but I can't read them tonight. I just can't concentrate well. (Can't think why I would be upset about anything!)

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

Check out this thread.

http://christianforums.com/t729149

 

[Patristic]

I definitely don't think as some fundamentalists do that if you don't interpret Genesis literally then your committment to Christ is suddenly suspect. Thus, I don't believe Christianity and evolution are incompatible, it's just that I have a hard time reconciling the two personally. I too struggle with the whole relationship between Christ and Adam and how that fits into an evolutionary paradigm.

 

[Matthias]

You can be Orthodox and believe in old earth creation, evolution, new earth creation, and many other things. The sky is the limit.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Not exactly. It isn't Orthodox to believe in any form of evolution or creation which leaves out God.

 

[Matthew777]

Why an Orthodox Christian Cannot be an Evolutionist
http://www.creatio.orthodoxy.ru/sbornik/sbufeev_whynot_english.html

Genesis and Early Man

The Orthodox Patristic Understanding

An article entitled The Eternal Will was printed in The Christian Activist Volume 11, Fall/Winter 1997. It was a lecture given by Dr. Alexander Kalomiros on evolution vs. creationism and his interpretation of the traditional teachings by the Fathers of the Orthodox Church about Genesis. This is a response to Dr. Kalomiros by Fr. Seraphim Rose. It has been excerpted for length by Frank Schaeffer.
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/phronema/evolution_frseraphim_kalomiros.aspx

May peace be upon thee and with thy spirit.

 

[Matthew777]

I hope these sources will help. Fr. Rose is a reliable authority on the fathers of the church, and he uses quotes from the fathers to show their interpretation of Genesis.

We musn't have a "literal" or "allegorical" understanding of Genesis. What matters is the patristic understanding.

Fr. Deacon Andrey Kuraev should be suspect in his interpretation of the creation vs. evolution contraversy, especially since he makes no reference to what the fathers actually taught on the six days of Creation.

 

[Maximus]

I don't really worry about this issue very much. It's not something that concerns me.

However, I do not believe in evolution. It just doesn't make sense to me, and all of the so-called "evidence" I have seen is based on interpreting data according to a set of preconceived ideas.

I also recall the treacherous Jesuit, Teilhard de Chardin, an ardent evolutionist. His melding of Latin Christianity with Hinduism and evolutionism has done untold harm to the Roman Church.

 

[Marjorie]

One thing that someone said on another board that I thought was ingenious was the fact that time itself as we know it is a product of the fallen world that we live in. So to quibble about what happened "before" the Fall is bound to be a problem, although of course the idea of death in ANY part of Creation "before" Adam is troubling. But time worked differently then, in a way we can't understand, so it's best not even to worry about it and to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

 

[Philip]

I don't really worry about this issue very much. It's not something that concerns me.

Agreed. I have enough fear and trembling to do already to worry about whether or not I actually am a monkey.

 

[Maximus]

Agreed. I have enough fear and trembling to do already to worry about whether or not I actually am a monkey.

Lol!

 

[countrymouse33ad]

Agreed. I have enough fear and trembling to do already to worry about whether or not I actually am a monkey.

I hear you.

Something I read in one of Fr. Alexander Schmemann's articles, somewhere, made sense. The gist of it was that, among the creatures God made on the earth, only we humans were made for immortality. After all, only we were made in the image of God, to be in His likeness.

 

[NewToLife]

I'm not so sure that the 'how' of creation is anywhere near as important as the 'why' of creation. What ought to be our primary concern is not the mechanism of creation but the reason for it. It is in understanding and then living according to our God given purpose that we can be better Christians.

 

[Xpycoctomos]

I don't really worry about this issue very much. It's not something that concerns me.

My sentiments exactly. I actually tend to lean towards evolution (the whole nine yards) but I'm no scientist and have done no extensive research into the issue, admittedly. But I don't feel bad about it because it is just something that doesn't impact my faith in anyway. I feel sorry for fundamentalists who are taught that evolution is evil and (even worse) that they MUST beleive in a literal 7 day creation and that the world is only 6000 some years old. These latter ideas just seem the most implausible ever. Please understand. It doesn't bother me AT ALL that someone believes this (there were Church Fathers who believed very strongly in a 7-day creation, so I'm told) but when they are told they MUST believe this, I worry that one day they will go to college, take a simple geogrpahy course (which allows you to see how painfully slow and beautiful the processes of forming mountains, land etc... takes) and from that, doubt their faith. Because I dont see evolution and the faith as conflicting, I was just able to find all of this science as awesome and interesting rather than scary.

I also second thorny grace's thoughts, especially on the idea that Adam is more an icon of the first man (however God defined their advent into existence) than the literal first man who literally bit from literal fruit. Who knows. It could all be a historical account or perhaps it is something deeper than that.

There was an excellent NPR Science Friday many years back on Evolution. They had two practicing Catholic scientists on, one of who felt that something it was not plausible that we came from primates than evolution of man and the other who believed the other way. They briefly talked (over my head a bit lol) about their reasonings. But what I found most interesting is that they were both VERY respectful of eachother and the one who was against evolution was not for relgious reasons. Both scientists agreed emphatically that there is no reason why the theory of evolution should create a religious dilemma. The one against evolution held reasons more akin to what Maximus said... there are just too many holes according to him. if i can find the RealPlayer link to the discussion, Ill post it. Pretty good.

John

 

[Xpycoctomos]

I'm not so sure that the 'how' of creation is anywhere near as important as the 'why' of creation. What ought to be our primary concern is not the mechanism of creation but the reason for it. It is in understanding and then living according to our God given purpose that we can be better Christians.

excellently put!

 

[Maximus]

Like I said, this is not an issue that concerns me much, and - as I also already said - I don't buy evolution because it doesn't make sense to me.

I was wondering about something just now, however.

For those of you who do believe in evolution:

Has Man stopped evolving?

Or will we continue to evolve?

Will that make our Lord Jesus a more primitive sort of man than subsequent generations will be?