Say they are in an unhappy relationship or maybe they have a girl they just can't handle. Is it okay to step in and steal the show? After all, its for the good of all involved.
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Is it moral to steal your friend's boyfriend/girlfriend away from them?
- Thread starter Autumnleaf
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Supernaut
What did they aim for when they missed your heart?
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That is absolutely reprehensible. If their relationship is so shakey, let them end it on their own terms...not on yours. You need to respect the current relationship regardless of your personal view. It would be disrespectful to the girl/guy that you are pursuing to interfere with their current relationship.
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DeathMagus
Stater of the Obvious
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You need to be more specific. How exactly is this supposed to go down?
I can picture all sorts of scenarios, from the ok-if-dubious to the downright reprehensible.
I can picture all sorts of scenarios, from the ok-if-dubious to the downright reprehensible.
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Mling
Knight of the Woeful Countenance (in training)
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"Stealing" means taking something that isn't yours.
In order to "steal" a person, you'd need to assume that the person
a) is not responsible for their own decisions, instead being subject to other people's desires,
and b) is property.
People make their own desires. If you step into somebody else's relation ship and start hitting on somebody, you're a jerk. The person you're hitting on, though, has the option of trying to telling you to screw off, leaving their current relationship and then starting up one with you, or starting up a relationship with you before ending the previous one.
Again, if you encourage somebody to cheat, you're a jerk, but you're not "stealing" anything. You're encouraging another sovereign being to make a decision that will hurt somebody else.
In order to "steal" a person, you'd need to assume that the person
a) is not responsible for their own decisions, instead being subject to other people's desires,
and b) is property.
People make their own desires. If you step into somebody else's relation ship and start hitting on somebody, you're a jerk. The person you're hitting on, though, has the option of trying to telling you to screw off, leaving their current relationship and then starting up one with you, or starting up a relationship with you before ending the previous one.
Again, if you encourage somebody to cheat, you're a jerk, but you're not "stealing" anything. You're encouraging another sovereign being to make a decision that will hurt somebody else.
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Mling
Knight of the Woeful Countenance (in training)
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If you love somebody, you'll encourage them to do what is healthiest for them. Lying, sneaking around and betraying somebody close to you is not healthy.
If you love them, let them know, let them know you're available if their current relationship ends. Then let them make their own decisions.
Seeing "they have a girl they can't handle" next to a question that assumes people are property, above a sig that attributes human flaws to women, uniquely, is really pushing all my "casual misogyny" buttons.
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Yeah, enticing them away from who they are with. Stealing people is called kidnapping. That would be a separate topic. I can see how it could be confusing. Poor choice of words on my part.
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Mling
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It's not really that it's confusing. Everybody knows what is meant by that phrase. It's that what's meant is inherently offensive on a lot of different levels, so it's a phrase that a lot of people would like to draw attention to, in a "conscience-raising" sort of way.
I address it the same way I address the issue of kids where I work saying that a teacher "tried to get them in trouble," (by which they mean, they did something wrong, and teacher didn't turn a blind eye.)
People need to take responsibility for their own actions. That includes people who decide to cheat on their partners.
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A similar scenario happened between three of my friends recently.
The couple had been together five years but recently she'd been spending more time with another friend of ours. The male partner was aware of this but trusted her.
Then she split up with him and immediately started dating the other guy.
The end result is that he's torn up about it, she's sad that she hurt him and that everyone else in our social group is really awkward around all of them.
The only one who I'm not sure on is the second guy, who's extremly hard to read.
No whether this whole thing was immoral or not, I don't know. People got hurt but that happens in a lot of breakups and it doesn't mean it's 'bad' in that sense. If the new guy was actively intending to break them up then yes, I think it's wrong but it's difficult to tell people's intentions.
The couple had been together five years but recently she'd been spending more time with another friend of ours. The male partner was aware of this but trusted her.
Then she split up with him and immediately started dating the other guy.
The end result is that he's torn up about it, she's sad that she hurt him and that everyone else in our social group is really awkward around all of them.
The only one who I'm not sure on is the second guy, who's extremly hard to read.
No whether this whole thing was immoral or not, I don't know. People got hurt but that happens in a lot of breakups and it doesn't mean it's 'bad' in that sense. If the new guy was actively intending to break them up then yes, I think it's wrong but it's difficult to tell people's intentions.
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DeathMagus
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Time for me to share my story. Go ahead and tell me what you think.
I've known my current girlfriend for 2.5 years. We met when she moved into my dormitory her freshman year of college (my sophomore year). I was on opening committee, and she was in the band, so we both got to move in early. Since we were part of a small group of people there, she started out getting to know a lot of people I already knew. I had a girlfriend at at the time, though we were slowly but surely headed towards a mutual breakup - our lives were going in different directions. My current girlfriend and I became friends, and she started dating a guy we both knew who I'm not a fan of. She dates this gentleman for a little over a year, during which I try a couple of different relationships, all of which fall through.
Fast forward to the beginning of this fall's semester. Soon after her breakup with her long-term boyfriend, she is in a long-distance relationship with a soldier she knew stationed in Iraq (she asked him if they could date a few days before he shipped out). She had a hard time with it, because they didn't have much of a history to speak of, and long-distance is killer even if you do have a great deal of history together. He told her before he left that he was fine with her casually dating other guys, with the understanding that she was his girlfriend and would be there for him when he got back.
She and I had been pretty good friends, but since her boyfriend and I disliked each other, we didn't really see each other very much. She and I started hanging out more, and we enjoyed relaxing together in my dorm's lounge reading books or homework. I started to develop feelings for her, and the fact that she wanted to hang out slightly more than was typical suggested to me that she might have felt the same way.
I knew about her boyfriend, however, and I knew he wasn't there to solidify the relationship - so I didn't want to do anything foolish. Essentially, even if I would have been able to convince her to date me instead, I didn't want to rush her into something so quickly that she didn't have time to think about it, and I wasn't interested in a casual relationship, especially with her (too attracted to her on too many different levels for that).
One Friday, she came over and we hung out with some mutual friends, had dinner on campus, and played a traditional game of midnight soccer. We were both flirting a great deal at this point, so it became a simple question of how we were going to handle this mutual attraction. After midnight soccer, she showered at my dorm, and I loaned her some clothes to sleep in. We snuggled in bed and fell asleep together.
I awoke later that night, and she was asleep. I knew that I needed to let her know how I felt, and so I kissed her. She woke up, and said she didn't want to rush into things, even though she had feelings for me too. We made out for a little bit, and agreed to talk about things in the morning.
Over the next week, we had several discussions about what we felt about each other, what we looked for in a relationship, and what would be a fair way to go about sorting through the situation (she wasn't sure, for instance, that she wanted to break it off with her military boyfriend - she found the circumstances intolerable, not him personally).
Basically, the end result was that I presented myself as an alternative to her current relationship, and added that I wanted her to think about it, perhaps talk with her boyfriend, and make a decision without any untoward pressure from me. I asked that, if she were to choose me, that she would break it off with her boyfriend before we pursued our relationship any further.
We've been together for the last 4 months, now, and are both very happy. So give it to me straight - do you consider our actions unethical?
I've known my current girlfriend for 2.5 years. We met when she moved into my dormitory her freshman year of college (my sophomore year). I was on opening committee, and she was in the band, so we both got to move in early. Since we were part of a small group of people there, she started out getting to know a lot of people I already knew. I had a girlfriend at at the time, though we were slowly but surely headed towards a mutual breakup - our lives were going in different directions. My current girlfriend and I became friends, and she started dating a guy we both knew who I'm not a fan of. She dates this gentleman for a little over a year, during which I try a couple of different relationships, all of which fall through.
Fast forward to the beginning of this fall's semester. Soon after her breakup with her long-term boyfriend, she is in a long-distance relationship with a soldier she knew stationed in Iraq (she asked him if they could date a few days before he shipped out). She had a hard time with it, because they didn't have much of a history to speak of, and long-distance is killer even if you do have a great deal of history together. He told her before he left that he was fine with her casually dating other guys, with the understanding that she was his girlfriend and would be there for him when he got back.
She and I had been pretty good friends, but since her boyfriend and I disliked each other, we didn't really see each other very much. She and I started hanging out more, and we enjoyed relaxing together in my dorm's lounge reading books or homework. I started to develop feelings for her, and the fact that she wanted to hang out slightly more than was typical suggested to me that she might have felt the same way.
I knew about her boyfriend, however, and I knew he wasn't there to solidify the relationship - so I didn't want to do anything foolish. Essentially, even if I would have been able to convince her to date me instead, I didn't want to rush her into something so quickly that she didn't have time to think about it, and I wasn't interested in a casual relationship, especially with her (too attracted to her on too many different levels for that).
One Friday, she came over and we hung out with some mutual friends, had dinner on campus, and played a traditional game of midnight soccer. We were both flirting a great deal at this point, so it became a simple question of how we were going to handle this mutual attraction. After midnight soccer, she showered at my dorm, and I loaned her some clothes to sleep in. We snuggled in bed and fell asleep together.
I awoke later that night, and she was asleep. I knew that I needed to let her know how I felt, and so I kissed her. She woke up, and said she didn't want to rush into things, even though she had feelings for me too. We made out for a little bit, and agreed to talk about things in the morning.
Over the next week, we had several discussions about what we felt about each other, what we looked for in a relationship, and what would be a fair way to go about sorting through the situation (she wasn't sure, for instance, that she wanted to break it off with her military boyfriend - she found the circumstances intolerable, not him personally).
Basically, the end result was that I presented myself as an alternative to her current relationship, and added that I wanted her to think about it, perhaps talk with her boyfriend, and make a decision without any untoward pressure from me. I asked that, if she were to choose me, that she would break it off with her boyfriend before we pursued our relationship any further.
We've been together for the last 4 months, now, and are both very happy. So give it to me straight - do you consider our actions unethical?
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Eh. I wouldn't call what you did stealing her away. To me, doing that would be to actively try to break up their relationship. You seemed to act rather respectfully in that you didn't insist upon anything and made sure that she was making her own decisions here.
"Stealing" someone away, as appropriately dramatic as it may be, totally ignores the fact that the person being "stolen" is likely going willingly. The "stolen" person has just as much say in this. And the word being used that way does have the smack of property to it.
In general, I think trying to break up someone's relationship so you can have them instead is indeed immoral, even if it's "for love." I'm skeptical of this bodice-ripping, sweep-me-off-my-feet sort of notion of love being the justification for trying to take someone out of their relationship and put them into one with you. And I think it's doubly selfish if the relationship is a bad one. "Yeah, wow, he/she was a dick, but let's just start something new! With me!" Chances are, a person needs time to heal and get over the last person.
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