Is it enought to just except Christ into your heart??

[rgray]

Is it enough to just pray a prayer excepting Christ into your heart to obtain the Holy Spirit? Is baptism just an outward show of your devotion to God or is it a necessary step in the process of becoming a born again Christian? The first step is obviously to believe in Christ other wise why would one get baptized? But what does it mean to believe in someone? Is it enough to just believe that Christ existed or are we to believe in what he brought? He says in the last chapter of Mark “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.” Also, what about the laying on of hands? Is it necessary? Before you respond to this consider the 8th Chapter of Acts where for the people of Samaria it was necessary. Acts Chapter 8 Verses 12-17 talks about how the people of Samaria were taught Christ by Philip, then they believed in Christ, and were then even baptized in his name and yet the Holy Ghost had not fallen on them until Peter and John came and laid hands on them. Please let me know what you guys think of this scripture.

 

[holo]

I wouldn't dare to try and define exactly what and how to believe in order to get saved or filled with the Spirit or whatever. I think it's beyond words anyway. But the bible has a lot of stories about a lot of different people who met God in different ways - the only thing I find that they have in common is that Jesus didn't say stuff like "well, it's good that you believe in me, but have you also made me Your Personal Lord & Saviour(tm)?" or "do you believe section B part 2.3 from the Nicene Creed?"

Jesus just wasn't much of a theologian Himself. He didn't come to give us creeds and definitions, but life and life abundantly. Look at how Jesus met those who came to Him; some came for healing, some came for teaching, some thought He was some sort of wizard, some thought He was a military leader, one merely asked Him to remember him as he died on the cross, and most of the disciples didn't even really believe in Him - they denied Him, several times.

But Jesus never started instructing them on exactly how to define all these spiritual things - because to Him, it wan't a technical or theological issue to begin with. It was merely Father reaching out to His children. More than anything else, God is your father.

 

[trentlogain]

I wouldn't dare to try and define exactly what and how to believe in order to get saved or filled with the Spirit or whatever. I think it's beyond words anyway. But the bible has a lot of stories about a lot of different people who met God in different ways - the only thing I find that they have in common is that Jesus didn't say stuff like "well, it's good that you believe in me, but have you also made me Your Personal Lord & Saviour(tm)?" or "do you believe section B part 2.3 from the Nicene Creed?"

Jesus just wasn't much of a theologian Himself. He didn't come to give us creeds and definitions, but life and life abundantly. Look at how Jesus met those who came to Him; some came for healing, some came for teaching, some thought He was some sort of wizard, some thought He was a military leader, one merely asked Him to remember him as he died on the cross, and most of the disciples didn't even really believe in Him - they denied Him, several times.

But Jesus never started instructing them on exactly how to define all these spiritual things - because to Him, it wan't a technical or theological issue to begin with. It was merely Father reaching out to His children. More than anything else, God is your father.

Well do you recognize Jesus Christ as the Son of God?

 

[SoundCard]

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[nzguy]

Eternal Security:

Having asked Christ into your life, Christ comes into your spirit as the Holy Spirit. He forgives ALL your sins, past, present and future.. including saying no to God after salvation-- cos that is just the sin of rebellion..

He gives you a new heart, you are a new creation, sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Anything you do after this point is up to you such as reading the bible, going to a church, baptism etc..

there are no HAVE tos.. but if you want to have blessings from God, and a real Godly life.. then you should pursue Jesus with all your heart and mind.

salvation and service and seperate things.. salvation is a free gifts, not by works, no strings attached.. once off.. sealed for eternity

service is daily faith acting out thru relying on the Holy Spirit to govern your whole life. You don't have to do this, but given what happens at salvation.. the great love.. that would normally be a motivator to serve God completely.

How do I know all this?

from KJV:

[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']Joh 10:28[/FONT][FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'] And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand. [/FONT]
[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']Joh 10:29[/FONT][FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'] My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.[/FONT]


[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']Eph 2:8[/FONT][FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'] For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, [/FONT]
[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']Eph 2:9[/FONT][FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'] not of works, lest anyone should boast. [/FONT]


[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']Rom 8:37[/FONT][FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'] But in all these things we more than conquer through Him who loved us. [/FONT]
[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']Rom 8:38[/FONT][FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'] For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [/FONT]
[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']Rom 8:39[/FONT][FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'] nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. [/FONT]


[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']1Co 3:11[/FONT][FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'] For any other foundation can no one lay than the one being laid, who is Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']1Co 3:12[/FONT][FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'] And if anyone builds on this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble, [/FONT]
[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']1Co 3:13[/FONT][FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'] each one's work shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each one's work as to what kind it is. [/FONT]
[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']1Co 3:14[/FONT][FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'] If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward. [/FONT]
[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']1Co 3:15[/FONT][FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'] If anyone's work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire. [/FONT]
[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'] [/FONT]
[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']2 Co 1:22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.[/FONT]
[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'][/FONT]
[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'][FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']2 Co 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.[/FONT]
[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS'][/FONT]
[FONT='@Arial Unicode MS']Ephesians 1:13b-14 in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

(1Pe 3:18) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

(1Pe 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
(1Pe 1:4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the the deeds of thetlaw.


(Gal 2:16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

(Heb 13:5) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

(Rom 10:10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

(Rom 10:11) For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

(Rom 10:12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

(Rom 10:13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


I could go on with more verses.. there are many.. and they are clear.. like the previous post.. that somes it up.. salvation is simple and complete.. and all encompassing.. nothing left out. 100 percent Jesus' commitment to us

Of course.. this doesn't sit well with either Calvinism or Arminianism.. but are those not just doctrines of men?

What does the bible say?


[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[MarkEvan]

Having asked Christ into your life, Christ comes into your spirit as the Holy Spirit. He forgives ALL your sins, past, present and future.. including saying no to God after salvation-- cos that is just the sin of rebellion..

While we do not have to do these things to be saved we are told that there are several things where by if we fail to do them (as believers) we will loose the grace that saves us from death. For instance Jesus says 'if you do not forgive your brother from your heart neither will your heavenly Father forgive you.' One instance but there are many more. Why (if salvation is a one time act) are we told these things?


Mark

 

[holo]

Well do you recognize Jesus Christ as the Son of God?

I do. But again, looking at how Jesus Himself met those who came to Him, He never did what we are doing here - defining Himself theologically. He simply accepted ALL those who came to Him.

The problem is, the moment we say "you must believe such and so, and not like this and that, in order to be saved," we inevitably limit the gospel. We limit Jesus as soon as we put him into some creed or definition or any other sort of box. Jesus never placed Himself in any of those frames. Instead, He proved again and again that they were all too narrow.

Do we really think we can do what nobody in the bible could ever do? When Paul writes that we can't even fathom the depths of God, why do we spend so much time trying to do just that?

 

[holo]

While we do not have to do these things to be saved we are told that there are several things where by if we fail to do them (as believers) we will loose the grace that saves us from death. For instance Jesus says 'if you do not forgive your brother from your heart neither will your heavenly Father forgive you.' One instance but there are many more. Why (if salvation is a one time act) are we told these things?

Actually, we aren't told those things. Jesus taught this as a jew, under the law, in the old covenant. People wanted to know what they must do to be saved, and He told them. If you want to do something to be saved, look at what Jesus taught about keeping the law.

But thankfully, we live in the NEW covenant, we live AFTER the cross. Now, God doesn't forgive us because we hvae forgiven others, no, we forgive each other as He has already forgien us. Now, He doesn't love us because we're good at keeping commandments, but we love because He has loved us first.

See? It's the other way around. There's not an inch of your salvation that is a result of your performance. Christ is your very righteousness. So you can rest assured that you are 100% righteous, 24/7, all year. Knowing that, trusting that, will make you behave like the righteous person that you are.

 

[nzguy]

to mark :

well.. you have to put verses like the one you mentioned alongside all the other verses that I have just posted. Scriptural truths is governed by putting scripture with scripture.. and then it interprets itself.

In the case of that particular verse.. it is right to look at the surrounding context to see who it is about.. when it was said.. who said it etc...

then you can establish what it is about.

Also.. when looking at salvation.. it is right to choose verses about salvation.. justification... eternal life.. these are the key verses that are the clearest about what it means to be saved.

Also..

the word 'saved' has different meanings when looking at the Greek and Hebrew lexicons and dictionaries.. sometimes it means just being delivered or rescued from a bad situation.. other times it referes to the salvation of the soul. For instance-- 'he who endures to the end will be saved' is about being rescued from a bad situation.. not about salvation of the soul.. when you look at the surrounding verses.

So... scripture in context is what is right.. the objective truth.. and that is what shows eternal security

 

[nzguy]

Oh yeah Acts 8: 12-17

compare this verse with what happened in Acts 2 when the Holy Spirit came down upon the congregation and men were filled with the Spirit and spoke in earthly languages unknown to themselves, but known to the listeners.

Here, the Holy Spirit was entering into His new ministry as God the Holy Spirit after God the Son has ascended to heaven. Salvation before this point was the same as it is now.. thru faith in Jesus Christ (David believed in a redeemer and saviour, so did Job.. there are other references also)

In the OT- they were looking ahead to Jesus' one sacrifice and resurrection, in the NT the sacrifice is recorded and they are also looking back at His sacrifice and resurrection.

So when God the Holy Spirit comes, this is Jesus' personal ministry being established as He is absent in the flesh, but present in the Spirit. So when He dwells as the Holy Spirit among congregations and annoints people.. this is a special way of ministering and blessing people.. but not about salvation of the soul.

Also.. laying on of the hands is related to sending out missionaries to do the work of God, empowered by the Holy Spirit. They would be saved before this happens, and then feel the calling by God to go out, and the elders bless them for their journey thru the laying on of hands. We do this at my church, where missionaries and church planters are sent out after first being given the blessing of the congregation thru getting members to lay hands on them and pray for them.

Nowadays.. it isn't a mystical thing.. it is like a commission and an encouragement for someone journeying out from their congregation to spread the gospel in some way.

So I think in Acts 8.. this is the Holy Spirit commissioning someone in a special way who is called by Him to spread teh Word of God among the nations.

 

[MarkEvan]

To both Holo and NZGuy,


While what you say is true (we are not saved by anything that we as human beings do) it is also true that the life of a true believer will bear fruit, and this fruit is in line with such verses as the one quoted,

Matthew 6


5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
8 “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. 9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.



I have quoted the entire section to take it context, Jesus is here talking to His disciples and teaching them to pray, I don`t think that anyone would say that this teaching about prayer is not for us today.....so why say that the very next statement isn`t meant for us, especially considering that verse 14 is the conclusion of the verses preceeding it.
What does Jesus mean when He tells us to strive to enter through the narrow gate for many will try but few will be able?


Mark

 

[holo]

To both Holo and NZGuy,


While what you say is true (we are not saved by anything that we as human beings do) it is also true that the life of a true believer will bear fruit

Absolutely, but believing in yourself, your morality, your ability to keep commandments, or any such thing won't bear nearly as much fruit as believing in Him. And I mean really believing in Him - especially if you're a kind and resourceful person to begin with, then it's all the more difficult to let HIM do it...

That's my experience, anyway. It was only when I gave up even to be a christian, that the fruits of the Spirit started showing. It turned out that all my efforts to be a Good Christians were only getting in the way of Christ being Himself.

For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. 9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.



I have quoted the entire section to take it context, Jesus is here talking to His disciples and teaching them to pray, I don`t think that anyone would say that this teaching about prayer is not for us today...

Actually, I would

For example, we don't need to pray for His kingdom to come. It is here already! It is in us and around us! And we don't have to ask Him to forgive us, He did that two thousand years ago, while we were still sinners, even before we were born!

..so why say that the very next statement isn`t meant for us, especially considering that verse 14 is the conclusion of the verses preceeding it.

I think we should NOT assume that, BECAUSE of verse 14! Because that verse is obviously talking about a time/condition/covenant we are NOT in - Jesus didn't wait for me to forgive all my enemies before He forgave me. Thank God He didn't! Because I wouldn't even be able to forgive unless He had forgiven me first. I love because He loved me first.

What does Jesus mean when He tells us to strive to enter through the narrow gate for many will try but few will be able?

Personally, I believe He's talking about the old way, the old covenant. Jesus isn't narrow, on the contrary He's sufficient for all who call upon His name, and whoever comes to Him, He will never deny! The old road was narrow, and many tried (and so many are still trying), but now Jesus IS the way.

 

[MarkEvan]

..........whats wrong with the smilie face??????

 

[jeremyloo]

Amen Holo!
Amen NZGuy!

Salvation comes from our Lord Jesus and based on His finished work on the cross and not based on our works. We can't save ourselves.

During the time when Jesus was on earth, there are 2 types of Jews. The first type are people who know the Law and thought that they are obedient to it. The second type are people who know that they are sinful. Which group did the Lord approached? And which group did the Lord reproached?

We must also see that during the time when Jesus was on earth, it was a transition to end the Old Covenant to the New Covenant. The Old Covenant cannot come to a close until our Lord fulfilled the requirements of the Law. For this, He became blameless before God, men and satan. He also has to die on the cross and nailed all the requirement of the Law to the cross.
Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Col 2:14 having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;

The New Covenant cannot begin until our Lord had resurrected.

The Lord's prayer is not a New Covenant prayer. As Holo has mentioned, at that point of time. The Kingdom came when the Lord resurrected and the church was born. "Thy will be done" was fulfilled when the Lord died on the cross.

When we believed in our Lord Jesus, we are saved and not be condemned.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The Holy Spirit will indwell in us to take resident (just like drinking water). When we are baptised with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit takes president in us (just like diving in a pool).

Be Bless,

Jeremy Loo

 

[ANM29]

I wouldn't dare to try and define exactly what and how to believe in order to get saved or filled with the Spirit or whatever. I think it's beyond words anyway. But the bible has a lot of stories about a lot of different people who met God in different ways - the only thing I find that they have in common is that Jesus didn't say stuff like "well, it's good that you believe in me, but have you also made me Your Personal Lord & Saviour(tm)?" or "do you believe section B part 2.3 from the Nicene Creed?"

Jesus just wasn't much of a theologian Himself. He didn't come to give us creeds and definitions, but life and life abundantly. Look at how Jesus met those who came to Him; some came for healing, some came for teaching, some thought He was some sort of wizard, some thought He was a military leader, one merely asked Him to remember him as he died on the cross, and most of the disciples didn't even really believe in Him - they denied Him, several times.

But Jesus never started instructing them on exactly how to define all these spiritual things - because to Him, it wan't a technical or theological issue to begin with. It was merely Father reaching out to His children. More than anything else, God is your father.

I love reading your posts. I could not have said it any better. A man who knows the Lord...

 

[IisJustMe]

Is it enough to just pray a prayer excepting Christ into your heart to obtain the Holy Spirit? Is baptism just an outward show of your devotion to God or is it a necessary step in the process of becoming a born again Christian? The first step is obviously to believe in Christ other wise why would one get baptized? But what does it mean to believe in someone? Is it enough to just believe that Christ existed or are we to believe in what he brought? He says in the last chapter of Mark “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.” Also, what about the laying on of hands? Is it necessary? Before you respond to this consider the 8th Chapter of Acts where for the people of Samaria it was necessary. Acts Chapter 8 Verses 12-17 talks about how the people of Samaria were taught Christ by Philip, then they believed in Christ, and were then even baptized in his name and yet the Holy Ghost had not fallen on them until Peter and John came and laid hands on them. Please let me know what you guys think of this scripture.

All of your questions come from the same assumption; That is, there is something we have to do to be saved. That's wrong. We do nothing. Faith doesn't even come from within us, it is a gift of God.

Romans 12:3, NASB
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

Walking an aisle and saying a prayer of confession is not salvation. It should be the result of the Holy Spirit's call to all men to repent, but it can be counterfeited. The proof of salvation is not visible to man, only to God and that proof is the Father's acceptance of that confession as true and acceptable and valid. When He approves, the Holy Spirit indwells, and it is a seal that only the believer and God Himself is privy to.

 

[cyberlizard]

Jesus just wasn't much of a theologian Himself. He didn't come to give us creeds and definitions, but life and life abundantly.

the latter is the truth entirely, the former a myth. Jesus was an expert theologian, it's just that hebraic theology and thinking is vastly different to the greco-roman-western-rational-systematic theology any of used are used too.


Steve

p.s. let me recommend two books, one the bible, two 'jesus the jewish theologian by brad young, click the title to see the amazon reviews (it is quite academically written though for those who enjoy simple reading material.)

 

[cyberlizard]

All of your questions come from the same assumption; That is, there is something we have to do to be saved. That's wrong. We do nothing. Faith doesn't even come from within us, it is a gift of God.Walking an aisle and saying a prayer of confession is not salvation. It should be the result of the Holy Spirit's call to all men to repent, but it can be counterfeited. The proof of salvation is not visible to man, only to God and that proof is the Father's acceptance of that confession as true and acceptable and valid. When He approves, the Holy Spirit indwells, and it is a seal that only the believer and God Himself is privy to.

Salvation is, as said here, entirely God's gift to you and those who trust.... that said, discipleship is all about you pulling out your finger (so to speak) and being obedient to what you know to be the good, pleasing and acceptable will of God and His righteous requirements for your standard of righteousness in your daily walk.

Steve

 

[MarkEvan]

Absolutely, but believing in yourself, your morality, your ability to keep commandments, or any such thing won't bear nearly as much fruit as believing in Him. And I mean really believing in Him - especially if you're a kind and resourceful person to begin with, then it's all the more difficult to let HIM do it...

That's my experience, anyway. It was only when I gave up even to be a christian, that the fruits of the Spirit started showing. It turned out that all my efforts to be a Good Christians were only getting in the way of Christ being Himself.

While I agree completely that there is nothing that we as men can do towards our salvation, I will stand by the fact that the scriptures teach that we as believers have to put our all into living for Christ, we do not just sit back and allow Christ to move our arms or legs, to make us think about certain things while taking our minds off others (remember Paul said that we have to bring every thought captive to obey Christ....2 Corinthians 10). John tells us to flee form Idols (1 john 5), we are supposed to do this. The writer to the Hebrews says that 'you have not yet resisited to the point of shedding blood'.....hebrews 12.
All these are actions that we as believers have to do because they will not do themselves and no not even Christ will do them without our desire to be obediant. Yes it is through Christs stregnth that we do these things but it is us who have to implement that strength......'therefore work out your salvation with fear and trembling.'

Actually, I would

For example, we don't need to pray for His kingdom to come. It is here already! It is in us and around us! And we don't have to ask Him to forgive us, He did that two thousand years ago, while we were still sinners, even before we were born!

I think that we do need to pray for His kingdom to come, in the sense that more people may come to know the LORD. And yes I do believe that we as believers need to ask for forgivness for the sins we commit as believers look at what Paul says in 2 corinthians 7

2Make room for us in your hearts. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have exploited no one. 3I do not say this to condemn you; I have said before that you have such a place in our hearts that we would live or die with you. 4I have great confidence in you; I take great pride in you. I am greatly encouraged; in all our troubles my joy knows no bounds.

5For when we came into Macedonia, this body of ours had no rest, but we were harassed at every turn—conflicts on the outside, fears within. 6But God, who comforts the downcast, comforted us by the coming of Titus, 7and not only by his coming but also by the comfort you had given him. He told us about your longing for me, your deep sorrow, your ardent concern for me, so that my joy was greater than ever.
8Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— 9yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 11See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter. 12So even though I wrote to you, it was not on account of the one who did the wrong or of the injured party, but rather that before God you could see for yourselves how devoted to us you are. 13By all this we are encouraged. In addition to our own encouragement, we were especially delighted to see how happy Titus was, because his spirit has been refreshed by all of you. 14I had boasted to him about you, and you have not embarrassed me. But just as everything we said to you was true, so our boasting about you to Titus has proved to be true as well. 15And his affection for you is all the greater when he remembers that you were all obedient, receiving him with fear and trembling. 16I am glad I can have complete confidence in you.

They were sorrowful, and that sorrow lead to repentance, does not repentance involve forgivness and turning form that sin?



Finally all Jesus teaching is about the new covenant and how it apply`s to our lives, why would Jesus spend all His ministry teaching about the Old Covenant whan He knew that it was passing away? No what Jesus taught is the new covenant, this is what He was bringing in.



Mark

 

[Greatfull]

contributed to this thread. I learned a lot and am blessed. Even though I did not agree with everyone, the dialog was important for discussion. I will take a stand and say that God's Salvation for us is from Him to us and complete. Going down an isle and saying a prayer may not save us. But how do we know what transpired between God and that person who did go down that isle and said that simple prayer? Didn't the thief on the cross next to Jesus offer a simple plea to Jesus. "Remember me". Jesus garaunteed his salvation. "Today you will be with me in paradise."