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Is it better to "turn the other cheek", or to "stand up for your rights"?
- Thread starter astein
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You will always be tempted to stand up for your rights, the important thing to remember is that what you may think is a war, may in fact just be a battle.
If you are faced with a battle, what you want to do is convince your enemy that the battle is not worth it, hence turning the other cheek.
The time will come when you have to fight a war, by then you want to have been rested and at peace with your neighbours, hence the Peacemaking that Christ offers.
Life is full of enough conflict without adding to it, there are natural disasters, famines, diseases, if it were God's will that we should add our own fighting to the world, He would not have told us so often how to make Peace and shown us such great love in Jesus Christ.
Be mindful, Christ Himself said "from now on let anyone without a sword sell his garment and buy one", but do not think for a second that meant you should go out and try to defend yourself from every little sleight that is worked against you.
What you want is a thick skin and a hardy attitude toward conflict, be ready for battle, because a war is fought battle by battle, but do not think you cannot win friends and influence people in the process, far from it, you have many great qualities that will serve you well in Peace, much more than War.
If you are faced with a battle, what you want to do is convince your enemy that the battle is not worth it, hence turning the other cheek.
The time will come when you have to fight a war, by then you want to have been rested and at peace with your neighbours, hence the Peacemaking that Christ offers.
Life is full of enough conflict without adding to it, there are natural disasters, famines, diseases, if it were God's will that we should add our own fighting to the world, He would not have told us so often how to make Peace and shown us such great love in Jesus Christ.
Be mindful, Christ Himself said "from now on let anyone without a sword sell his garment and buy one", but do not think for a second that meant you should go out and try to defend yourself from every little sleight that is worked against you.
What you want is a thick skin and a hardy attitude toward conflict, be ready for battle, because a war is fought battle by battle, but do not think you cannot win friends and influence people in the process, far from it, you have many great qualities that will serve you well in Peace, much more than War.
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Eudaimonist
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Generally, to stand up for your rights.
No one else is going to do that for you, and if you don't stand up for your rights, people will assume that you don't care about them and become more eager and willing to take more of those away.
If you act like a slave, people will treat you like one.
eudaimonia,
Mark
No one else is going to do that for you, and if you don't stand up for your rights, people will assume that you don't care about them and become more eager and willing to take more of those away.
If you act like a slave, people will treat you like one.
eudaimonia,
Mark
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t’s right to stand up for what is right and/or what you believe in, because you are not always right, I guess.
When you are being true to yourself and who you are you should stand up and be counted for that which you believe in.
We are all different and are made individual. For the Christian it is right to try to Follow Jesus and take on his teachings as the truth to stand up for. For the non Christian it’s the same, they should stand for their deep seated convictions.
The hard part of it is exercising enough wisdom to make sure you are not standing up for a right someone told you should stand up for that is unworthy or false. Discerning the right time to stand up for yourself is important as we should also be thinking of the good of others. Always standing up and wanting your own way all the time is a mark of selfishness.
When you are being true to yourself and who you are you should stand up and be counted for that which you believe in.
We are all different and are made individual. For the Christian it is right to try to Follow Jesus and take on his teachings as the truth to stand up for. For the non Christian it’s the same, they should stand for their deep seated convictions.
The hard part of it is exercising enough wisdom to make sure you are not standing up for a right someone told you should stand up for that is unworthy or false. Discerning the right time to stand up for yourself is important as we should also be thinking of the good of others. Always standing up and wanting your own way all the time is a mark of selfishness.
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Eudaimonist
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I never said anything about killing people, and people can in 99+% of cases stand up for themselves without any violence whatsoever.
However, I can't fault the American revolutionaries for being willing to defend their freedoms. Yes, some of them had died in the Revolutionary War, but they had created a society that had remained free for another century and a half. That was much better than letting the British walk all over them. There are worse things than death.
eudaimonia,
Mark
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keith99
sola dosis facit venenum
Good point.
There is a old joke about a big, strong, tough farmboy. A man slapped him and he replied 'The good book says to turn the other cheek. The man struck him on the other cheek.
The farmboy replied 'I just ran out of cheeks' as he advanced on the man.
I personally tend that way.
BUT God have mercy on you if you hurt an old lady or child in my presence.
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If you wouldn't normally do it, it is a violent act.
You have distinguished between the battle and the war, well done.
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Don't all attacks fall into the catagory of turn the other cheek? Meaning, If your hit, and hit again, endure all, for loves sake? Regardless of how much is thwarted? I have witnessed myself get angry at times, but is it better to understand that, "what goes around comes around"? Or to exact vengeance immediately? If vengeance is exacted immediately, is it now your responsibility to exact, exact, vengeance, or suffer the unbalanced consequences? or to let the miraculous consequences, balance themselves without tipping the scales? And be free from the situation all together?
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Eudaimonist
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Meaning?
What do you think it means? It means "standing up for your rights" is violent.
In what way have you distinguished between the battle and the war? You have determined that international freedom (international because it concerns freedom in a nation among nations) fought for on home soil is a worthy cause. The reason it is a worthy cause is because it is not merely a battle between one member of society and another, but a war between every member of society and another. When everyone is involved, it is war.
When it could easily be just you who is fighting, it is a battle.
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Eudaimonist
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Violent in what sense?
It may risk violence *if* the oppressor is willing to use violence to maintain power, and then one may have to use violence in self-defense. Often, the oppressor backs down without violence.
Or, the oppressor may have to submit to a ruling by a judge. Any legal system may carry a threat of violence in order to enforce rulings, but one isn't violent oneself by charging someone with a crime.
In a democratic society, standing up for one's rights usually means using persuasion and the ballot box to get other people to recognize one's rights. No violence there.
I don't see how any society can survive if everyone "turns the other cheek" instead of standing up for themselves. It is doomed to become a society of masters and slaves, and injustice everywhere.
eudaimonia,
Mark
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Dave Ellis
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Keep in mind a policy of turning the other cheek (appeasement) is what directly lead to World War 2.
In the real world turning the other cheek is often a good course to take, however there are times when you have to stick up for yourself and be the aggressor. Otherwise you're simply going to get walked over for your entire life.
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Conflict need not be violet. In any case, it's human nature to stand up for yourself, unless you've been programmed, to use a term, to be otherwise. Like, by religion in some form.
I think you would see that there are situations where it is good to stand up for yourself, if you weren't inclined to use religion to make-believe that every situation which is undesirable is actually all right.
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Would your avatar be depicting three swords and three shields?
You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. (Matthew 5:38-41)
You were bought with a price; do not become bondservants of men. 1 Corinthians 7:23
I think we have to be careful to read Jesus word and not let ourselves be guided into doormat theology.
Romans 13:1-4 Submission to governing authorities, would easily be implied to recall the laws and how they pertain to self defense and defense of others.
This is a link worth considering:
Is Doormat-Theology Jesus-Theology?
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That is rather the point. Violence begets violence.
But you cannot give rest to your soul, thinking this will be the case. Even a little violence, upsets the whole body.
I would define that as passive violence. Still to be avoided.
Mastery is a function of Peace. Slaves are a function of War. I should think then that a society that turns the other cheek would be a society of Masters and not slaves.
Injustice in a Peaceful society is nothing more than laziness. Would you fight laziness with the Sword? Or would you rather fight it in word and deed? Examine yourself, what evidence do you actually have that a man who turns the other cheek immediately turns to injustice?
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Dave Ellis
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Sometimes that's not a bad thing.
What exactly is "passive violence"? That's an oxymoron.
A society that turns the other cheek will result in a society of people who are walked over by those who take advantage of others.
On what basis do you say injustice in a peaceful society is just laziness? There's been many injustices that are not tied to laziness in peaceful societies.
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You will have to elaborate on this Dave Ellis version of history. To my understanding, the Germans provoked the nations around them. It is a simplistic account, I know, but yours by comparison is cryptic.
In any case, turning the other cheek is no guarantee that you will never face war, I never said that. But if you cannot be provoked, you cannot be threatened either. It is therefore a very shrewd tactic in war.
You do not know the war until you have surrendered to the battle.
I am walked over less, knowing that I have a command not to provoke people, than if I voluntarily picked every fight that came my way. Suppose my brother provokes me, if I know that I am commanded not to respond, then when he says "you are a fool" I immediately know I am talking to the Devil and not to my brother, this in turn informs me that I may resist him and he will give up, what is my alternative? To say "I am a fool am I? I'll show you!" No, instead I turn the other cheek and I say "Yes, I can be foolish sometimes" and immediately he is on the back foot, do I mean that I am about to go to war with him, or am I simply admitting guilt, he does not know! He is so concerned with calling me a name that he does not know whether I am assaulting him or merely backing down and so the conflict resolves.
The alternative is that you fight all the time, even the battles you wouldn't otherwise have had to fight.
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