Is It A Sin to touch?

threeinone · Jul 24, 2006

Kepha said:
Paul said it is better to marry than to burn in passion and we can further divulge into the definition of marriage reading His Words in Ephesians 5:

This is the second time I have heard this and have a need to reply. Marrying to relieve sexual tension, passion is an extremely poor reason to marry and many marriages end up on the rocks for such a poor marrying reason. I don't know the answer but marrying to have sex is way out in left field and nothing much good comes out of it except unwanted children who probably don't get well taken care of.

In my books, marrying because you love somebody is the best reason and sometimes masturbating works until marriage happens.

Kepha · Jul 24, 2006

threeinone said:
This is the second time I have heard this and have a need to reply. Marrying to relieve sexual tension, passion is an extremely poor reason to marry and many marriages end up on the rocks for such a poor marrying reason. I don't know the answer but marrying to have sex is way out in left field and nothing much good comes out of it except unwanted children who probably don't get well taken care of.

In my books, marrying because you love somebody is the best reason and sometimes masturbating works until marriage happens.

You misunderstood me. Did Paul not say those very words? However I didnt translate those at all. My focal point was the next verse. ""31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be two in one flesh."

So basically what i'm saying is no, I do not believe he meant sexual frustration is the only reason to Marry either. My point was on the one flesh deal.

christandisrael · Jul 24, 2006

Agreed.

threeinone · Jul 24, 2006

Kepha said:
You misunderstood me. Did Paul not say those very words? However I didnt translate those at all. My focal point was the next verse. ""31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be two in one flesh."

So basically what i'm saying is no, I do not believe he meant sexual frustration is the only reason to Marry either. My point was on the one flesh deal.

Paul said it is better to marry than to burn in passion and we can further divulge into the definition of marriage reading His Words in Ephesians 5:

"31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be two in one flesh."

"For this cause................." comes directly after "it is better to marry than to burn in passion". So what am I supposed to think "For this cause ............" is referring to?

No need to answer. Just pointing it out.

djbcrawford · Jul 25, 2006

Kepha said:
It is common sense. You dont need exact verses to understand that becoming one with your wife includes the functions of the gentitals triggered by stimulation along with the selfless act of giving yourselves to one another on a physical and spiritual level. That is making love.

But one person's common sense is another person's common nonsense. A lot of posts about this topic supporting both sides claim to be common sense, which is why we, as Christians, need some sort of scripture to back it up.

Kepha said:
That is the gift from God if done right. Stimulation on it's own is not a gift but only a piece of it.

And what is wrong with a piece of chocolate when a whole bar isn't available. I'm not saying that it is better than the real thing, but in certain instances better then nothing.

Kelpha said:
H2o = water. Hydrogen on it's own is not water. Oxygen on it's own is not water. You need 2 parts of hydrogen + the 1 part oxygen to make water. If any is missing you have something completely different but one thing for sure, is you do not have the gift of water.

No, but you do have the gifts of hydrogen and oxygen which both have a useful purpose on their own.

Kelpha said:
Not if you word it as such, "waking your wife up to make LOVE to her". Making love is the key here. It means you want to give yourself to her and if she accepts, she willfully does the same with you. You are asking not demanding. It would be unreasonable to think that every love session between spouses has that instant spontaneous act where you both in a split second are in the mood. One most likely initiates it or thinks it first either by a kiss or a thought.

In this case, by waking her you have disturbed her sleep whether she accepts or not.

Kelpha said:
Paul said it is better to marry than to burn in passion and we can further divulge into the definition of marriage reading His Words in Ephesians 5:

"31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be two in one flesh."

Going solo is impossible to accomplish this. Becoming one flesh with your wife is both on a spiritual and a mutual selfgiving physical level.

Again, this is not to replace the act of love, it's more like better and best. Just because the act of love between a man and a woman is the best, doesn't mean that less than this is disallowed, unless scripture says otherwise.

In the verses above, due to the persecution the Christians were going through, Paul said it was better to be single, however if you "burned with passion" (notice the word lust isn't used), you should marry. In this instance, better was to marry and best was to remain single, however both were permissible.

threeinone · Jul 25, 2006

Kepha said:
It is common sense. You dont need exact verses to understand that becoming one with your wife includes the functions of the gentitals triggered by stimulation along with the selfless act of giving yourselves to one another on a physical and spiritual level. That is making love. That is the gift from God if done right. Stimulation on it's own is not a gift but only a piece of it.

H2o = water. Hydrogen on it's own is not water. Oxygen on it's own is not water. You need 2 parts of hydrogen + the 1 part oxygen to make water. If any is missing you have something completely different but one thing for sure, is you do not have the gift of water.

All sexual functions kept solely within the marriage scenario is perhaps the most perfect, ideal way to go. However we all know that not one of us is perfect or ideal. We are just common human beings and we can strive for perfection but we don't even come close with our greatest efforts. To my knowledge, God does not ask us to be perfect......He asks us to do our very best which He knows will fall short, very short of that perfection. So I would say that unless masturbation rules a persons whole life and hurts themselves and someone else, then I don't think there is any sin and neither does God because masturbation is not in the bible at all.

Also, I have noticed that the people who call masturbation a sin are those who have decided it is a sin and are struggling to not do it. Are you aware that the more you make yourself try not to touch, the more you think about it so you won't do it....you have to keep it uppermost in your mind. Perhaps if you stopped thinking about trying not to do it, you'll find that you don't think about it so much anymore.

Gukkor · Jul 25, 2006

threeinone said:
All sexual functions kept solely within the marriage scenario is perhaps the most perfect, ideal way to go. However we all know that not one of us is perfect or ideal. We are just common human beings and we can strive for perfection but we don't even come close with our greatest efforts. To my knowledge, God does not ask us to be perfect......He asks us to do our very best which He knows will fall short, very short of that perfection. So I would say that unless masturbation rules a persons whole life and hurts themselves and someone else, then I don't think there is any sin and neither does God because masturbation is not in the bible at all.

Also, I have noticed that the people who call masturbation a sin are those who have decided it is a sin and are struggling to not do it. Are you aware that the more you make yourself try not to touch, the more you think about it so you won't do it....you have to keep it uppermost in your mind. Perhaps if you stopped thinking about trying not to do it, you'll find that you don't think about it so much anymore.

Agreed. Moreover, I think it extremely telling that the Bible, which is by absolutely no means shy about discussing sexuality, never mentions masturbation, even though it does talk extensively on matters such as incest, bestiality, rape, etc., etc. It's not as if masturbation was such an incredibly rare act back then that the authors of the Bible and/or God felt no need to at least mention it in passing. I'm quite certain it was just about as common back then as it is now (i.e. very, very, very common), surely much more common than the sexual sins listed above.

christandisrael · Jul 25, 2006

Gukkor said:
Agreed. Moreover, I think it extremely telling that the Bible, which is by absolutely no means shy about discussing sexuality, never mentions masturbation, even though it does talk extensively on matters such as incest, bestiality, rape, etc., etc. It's not as if masturbation was such an incredibly rare act back then that the authors of the Bible and/or God felt no need to at least mention it in passing. I'm quite certain it was just about as common back then as it is now (i.e. very, very, very common), surely much more common than the sexual sins listed above.

I think that it depends on the audience and the motive of the heart.

Gukkor · Jul 25, 2006

christandisrael said:
I think that it depends on the audience and the motive of the heart.

What does?

Happy birthday in 5 days, by the way.

united4Peace · Jul 25, 2006

I think that it depends on the audience and the motive of the heart.

Audience??

touching yourself is or should be done in private (alone) or with a loved one (spouse) as its not for everyone to see...its for the person themselves to enjoy or to share with the person to whom they are married too (or whom they are involved in a deep emotional relationship with).

Gukkor · Jul 25, 2006

united4Peace said:
Audience??

touching yourself is or should be done in private (alone) or with a loved one (spouse) as its not for everyone to see...its for the person themselves to enjoy or to share with the person to whom they are married too (or whom they are involved in a deep emotional relationship with).

Yeah, I kinda just did a double-take on that too.

child101 · Jul 25, 2006

Sounds like a desire of the flesh... What does your Bible say about that?

united4Peace · Jul 26, 2006

Gukkor said:
Yeah, I kinda just did a double-take on that too.

Although...what was it...Dances With Wolves(??) Didnt everyone (her relatives that is)wait outside the tent while the two consummated their marriage??
Sort of an audience thing I suppose...LOL

united4Peace · Jul 26, 2006

child101 said:
Sounds like a desire of the flesh... What does your Bible say about that?

But to desire one's self??
Do we desire ourself or as Ive said are our bodies temples that God has given us that we have every right to take care of...which does include making them feel good in the right ways (not abusive ways).
By touching and carressing one's own body in amazement at what God has given them what better Thanks can one give God.(Giving one's body to a lover-spouse is totally different than thanking God for their own body as one is not giving their body to thier lover but sharing their own body/gift with the other person as well).
It's when one give's their body to just anyone or stops caring about thier bodies, or abuses their own or anothers body(body being temple or gift) that saddens God IMO.
No I dont have biblical scripture to back that up...just my thoughts...

Gukkor · Jul 26, 2006

united4Peace said:
But to desire one's self??
Do we desire ourself or as Ive said are our bodies temples that God has given us that we have every right to take care of...which does include making them feel good in the right ways (not abusive ways).
By touching and carressing one's own body in amazement at what God has given them what better Thanks can one give God.(Giving one's body to a lover-spouse is totally different than thanking God for their own body as one is not giving their body to thier lover but sharing their own body/gift with the other person as well).
It's when one give's their body to just anyone or stops caring about thier bodies, or abuses their own or anothers body(body being temple or gift) that saddens God IMO.
No I dont have biblical scripture to back that up...just my thoughts...

Scripture will always be important in considering moral issues, but if we can't ever make specific moral decisions without having "scriptural support" to reassure us, we're not spiritually growing. We're just the spiritual equivalent of leeches, depending utterly on a book to make our difficult decisions for us.

Sorry for going off-topic, that just caught my attention.

united4Peace · Jul 26, 2006

Gukkor said:
Scripture will always be important in considering moral issues, but if we can't ever make specific moral decisions without having "scriptural support" to reassure us, we're not spiritually growing. We're just the spiritual equivalent of leeches, depending utterly on a book to make our difficult decisions for us.

Sorry for going off-topic, that just caught my attention.

makes sence.
I'll admit I dont know the Bible the way most do...
I do read it every once in awhile...not the way alot do though...but I do...
At times I feel guilty as I dont know it as good as others but its not the Bible that makes one Christian...its what is in their heart...
Hmmm I think this though should be awhole other topic...
Have a good night...getting late...

child101 · Jul 26, 2006

Try, Galations 5:16 "I say then: Walk in the Sirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh".
Lust from the dictionary says:To have an intense or obsessive desire, especially one that is sexual.

child101 · Jul 26, 2006

Gukkor, I am going to have to stand on the verse in Rev. 22:7 "Behold I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book". Scripture is important to me to back up my answers. I try not to follow just any spirit.

threeinone · Jul 26, 2006

child101 said:
Try, Galations 5:16 "I say then: Walk in the Sirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh".
Lust from the dictionary says:To have an intense or obsessive desire, especially one that is sexual.

This definition of lust suggests to me that any thoughts while masturbating are not really lust. Sometimes I think that excessive anything is harmful to the spirit and that would include using scripture to the point where it in itself becomes harmful to oneself and to others. Anyone with a good knowledge will be able to come up with a scripture on excessive behavior which I don't think limits the word excessive to only certain things.

child101 · Jul 26, 2006

Someone asked a question because they wanted some input to make their choice. I strongly base my faith on what the scripture tells me. To do anything else, in my opinion, can lead to following the wrong spirits. Now with that you might want to say I live by law... to which I would have to say not true! I am a firm believer in the grace of God. Just I also believe that scripture is a way of interpreting truth from folly. We must all choose how we live our lives. If I have offended your beliefs, for that I am sorry. This is just what I believe. It's my answer to the question posted.

Is It A Sin to touch?

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