Is it a sin to divide into denominations?

Inkfingers · Jun 11, 2018

ShirleyMontreal said:
Love
Love of God
Love of Christ
Love for one another

And some would then say perverted sex is a form of love whilst others would disagree...

1213 · Jun 11, 2018

sunlover1 said:
Bible as standard for this thread please.

Id like us to consider if this is "sin".

IF sin, how to remedy?

I think the answer is in this:

Now the works of the flesh are obvious, which are: …hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, envyings, …., and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Gal. 5:19-21

But as I think someone here said, if some group of people call themselves Christian, but don’t really follow Jesus, disciple of Jesus is free to leave that group. There is only one group that follows Jesus and if you are in it, that is good.

sunlover1 · Jun 11, 2018

Inkfingers said:
And some would then say perverted sex is a form of love whilst others would disagree...

But those who are led by the Spirit of God know and cannot even continue
in sin, so we are to have nothing to do with the work of darkness or those
who continue in such.

sunlover1 · Jun 11, 2018

PaulCyp1 said:
Since the plainly stated will of Jesus Christ was and still is "That they all may be ONE, even as your Father and I are ONE", obviously dividing into thousands of conflicting denominations is a major violation of His plainly stated will.

Amen.

And there is a serious reason why He insisted on unity. What is the point of belonging to a church unless what we are hearing through that church is the truth?

This is your opinion. I see how and why, but .. and not to be nit picky, but oneness
isn't necessarily about 'truth'.
We have the Spirit of Truth, God WANTS us to walk in truth (above all things He wants
us to in fact) but unity is about love and loyalty.
(Just my own opinion actually)

However, truth cannot conflict with truth. Therefore, thousands of denominations (not to mention thousands more so-called "non-denominational" churches), the teaching of each one conflicting with the teaching of the others, has to mean widespread untruth being taught. Each of them claims to be teaching the truth because they got their material "right out of the Bible".

Well, "right out of the Bible" is right from the very Spirit of God.
Not much better than from the horses mouth, dear heart!

But this simply demonstrates their inability to accurately interpret the Bible.

Certainly! We ALL see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

The Word of God cannot contradict itself. In the midst of all this manmade doctrinal chaos, the ONE Church Jesus Christ founded remains ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in worship, ONE in biblical understanding throughout the world after 2,000 years, with NO conflicting denominations. You just can't beat God's plan.

Yes, the one church, is the entire body of Christ, like it says in the Bible.
We who are His body, are His church, no more no less.

Marvin Knox · Jun 11, 2018

sunlover1 said:
Is it a sin to divide into denominations?
Bible as standard for this thread please. Id like us to consider if this is "sin". IF sin, how to remedy?

Not only is it not sin - it is all going according to plan.

"No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval." 1 Corinthians 11:19

God will sort us out when the time comes.

sunlover1 · Jun 11, 2018

Marvin Knox said:
Not only is it not sin - it is all going according to plan.

"No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval." 1 Corinthians 11:19

God will sort us out when the time comes.

the differences to show which are approved of God.. would be wolves v sheep, no?

Marvin Knox · Jun 12, 2018

sunlover1 said:
the differences to show which are approved of God.. would be wolves v sheep, no?

Sometimes.

Both people strictly of the world and also people from within "Christianity" are referred to as wolves in the scriptures.

But, when the Lord talks about divisions in the particular case I quoted, He is talking about divisions "among you" (meaning divisions within the church itself).

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jun 12, 2018

I see two types of breaking communion with are sinful. First would be the way the ancient Church did and handled schism and second would be the way the Protestant churches did and handled schism.

Yes it is a sin to break communion in the Body. The biggest examples are the East/West schism and the Chalcedonian schism. The party in the wrong, who has not held to the faith is guilty of sin. Each side will defend their own and thus implicate the other by necessity otherwise schism wouldn't have happened. Ancient Church authorities are merciless in their accusations against each other for breaking communion and the sort of assumptions of commonality that exist today are not present back then. John Damascus lists the Oriental Orthodox as outright heretics and latter conflicts between Eastern writers against the Papacy are extremely harsh in their condemnation of western customs. Perhaps we shouldn't be engaged in that harsh a polemic but the reality of these schisms should not be avoided and that they are a sinful reality.

As for Protestantism. Schism is natural to it and I can't help but consider it sinful for people of their own authority and volition to declare themselves the leaders of Churches, independent of any pre-existing confirmation. All the reformers are guilty of this, that when they didn't get their way they disposed of the authority before them and established themselves as new Churches. This is what allows modern Non-denominational Churches to exist, they need no confirmation other than what they think the bible tells them. Unless one is a Prophet receiving direct revelation from God, it is sinful to start a Church in this manner and further divide and fracture Christendom.

1stcenturylady · Jun 12, 2018

sunlover1 said:
Bible as standard for this thread please.

Id like us to consider if this is "sin".

IF sin, how to remedy?

No, not if what the original denomination teaches is not in line with what the original apostles taught. Then by all means separate yourselves from heretical teachings, and go with like-minded Christians.

Mountainmike · Jun 12, 2018

sunlover1 said:
Bible as standard for this thread please.

Id like us to consider if this is "sin".

IF sin, how to remedy?

But there is the problem.

It is precisely because scripture is not sufficient that denominations proliferate holding opposing doctrines in every aspect of belief - they interpret scripture differently.

Scripture cannot solve its own limitations, but if you ask scripture to validate its own limitations leading to the denominational problem ( " as many doctrines as heads" lamented Luther)

I choose

1/ the fact that nowhere does scripture say "scripture alone " without which sola scriptura is a logically self defeating proposition.

2/ it says " the pillar and foundation of truth is the church" so identifying truth outside it and the apostles and successors given the power to " bind and loose" on doctrine - so highlighting that finding the "true church" matters

3/Our lords promise that his " church would be one" ( noting that the church is stated as the " household of a god" so a physical manifestation , not just a spiritual association, and that the " gates of hell would not prevail"
So look for a church whose doctrine is essentially unchanged in millennia.

4/" how can they teach if they are not sent? " the succession matters to knowing which have true teaching,

Clearly promoting false doctrine is sin

Denominations proliferate and split because of doctrinal differences, The solution to resolve the doctrinal so denominatiomal problem is studying early church tradition and authority.

aiki · Jun 12, 2018

sunlover1 said:
Bible as standard for this thread please.

Id like us to consider if this is "sin".

IF sin, how to remedy?

For a time, the Church was a monolithic entity governed by popes, cardinals, bishops and such. It didn't take long before the Church monolithic became political, oppressive and corrupt and a well-spring of man-made traditions fouling the faith and warping God's word. In light of this, I have no desire whatever to encourage anything that would serve to place the Christian religion once again under the authority of a single denomination. I think the Church is far safer under a de-centralized arrangement of governance that prevents - or, at least, significantly hinders - the aggregation of authority and power that inevitably turns the Church into a political entity rife with evil men jockeying for that power.

parousia70 · Jun 12, 2018

The Church of scripture is one united ecclesial body (Eph 4:3-4; Eph 4:13-16; Jn 17:21; Mt 16:18) without schismatic divisions (1 Cor 12:25; Rom 16:17; 1 Cor 1:10; Jude 1:19; Gal 5:20; 3 John 1:9-10), with one teaching for all the churches (Acts 15:22-23,25,28/Acts 16:4-5; 1 Tim 1:3; 1 Cor 1:10; Eph 4:5; Jude 1:3), and one bishopric authorized of and by the apostles (Titus 1:5) by the laying on of hands in ordination (Heb 6:2; 2 Tim 1:6; 1 Tim 4:14; Titus 1:5), sharing ministers back and forth among all churches (1 Cor 16:3; Rom 16:1,3,9,21,23; Phil 2:19,25; Titus 3:12), receiving one another in fellowship and in greeting (Rom 15:5-7; Rom 16:16; Col 4:10,12,14; 3 John 1:9-10), where excommunication removes individuals from this one body (Matt 18:17; 1 Corinthians 5:1-2,4-5), and which existed from St. Peter and the apostles unto today (Matt 16:18-19; Eph 3:21).

If your Church can Check off all points, then I'd say you're in good shape.

If your Chruch is merely one of an endless schism of divisions with multiple different teachings and authority structures, with no effective means of excommunication and no traceable Apostolic Lineage, you may want to take a closer look.

Meowzltov · Jun 13, 2018

sunlover1 said:
Bible as standard for this thread please.

Id like us to consider if this is "sin".

IF sin, how to remedy?

Yes, it is very much a sin. Paul chided the Corinthians for dividing into denominations (I am of Apollos, I am of Paul, I am of Christ).

The remedy is :
1. To realize the Body of Christ is in a state of sin and give up being comfortable about it.
2. To believe that it CAN be remedied with the help of the Holy Spirit, and humility on the part of the denominations.
3. To dialogue with each other in order to work out the major differences. By major differences, I am referring to i.e. the justification by faith alone division between Catholics and Protestants that has been resolved between Catholics and Lutherans, Methodists, and soon Anglicans. I'm not talking about peripheral doctrines like pre-trib rapture verses partial Preterism.
4. The ultimate goal has got to be the Creed's one, holy, catholic (universal) and apostolic church, united not only in doctrine but in oversite, since all reason for different organizational structures would cease to exist.

friend of · Jun 13, 2018

PaulCyp1 said:
Each of them claims to be teaching the truth because they got their material "right out of the Bible".

Yeah this is an issue. But if the differentiation isn't over the true Gospel then I don't see why it's such a big deal personally. Some may bring one view of the truth and other may bring another until the truth fills itself in. What may seem to conflict may actually not.

justbyfaith · Jun 13, 2018

New denominations have developed when new wine came into the picture and needed to be put in new wineskins. If the new wine be poured into the old denomination, or if a new patch be put on an old garment; the bottle would burst, or the garment would tear; but by putting the new wine into new wineskins or putting a new patch on a new set of clothing, both are preserved.

sunlover1 · Jun 13, 2018

PaulCyp1 said:
Since the plainly stated will of Jesus Christ was and still is "That they all may be ONE, even as your Father and I are ONE", obviously dividing into thousands of conflicting denominations is a major violation of His plainly stated will. And there is a serious reason why He insisted on unity. What is the point of belonging to a church unless what we are hearing through that church is the truth?

Just because you have unity doesn't mean you have truth.
consider some very dangerous cults that exist for an example.
God insisted on unity because of the power.
Consider the tower of babel story

However, truth cannot conflict with truth. Therefore, thousands of denominations (not to mention thousands more so-called "non-denominational" churches), the teaching of each one conflicting with the teaching of the others, has to mean widespread untruth being taught. Each of them claims to be teaching the truth because they got their material "right out of the Bible".

And your denomination claims to have truth because it got it's material from some early church fathers .. as does/did the other "one true church".
Potato potahto

But this simply demonstrates their inability to accurately interpret the Bible.

And early church fathers...

The Word of God cannot contradict itself. In the midst of all this manmade doctrinal chaos, the ONE Church Jesus Christ founded remains ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in worship, ONE in biblical understanding throughout the world after 2,000 years, with NO conflicting denominations. You just can't beat God's plan.

It's not the catholic denomination either.
It's the body of Christ, period.
Regardless of the fact that EACH man has some stuff wrong.

Thomas Schular · Jun 14, 2018

sunlover1 said:
Bible as standard for this thread please.

Id like us to consider if this is "sin".

IF sin, how to remedy?

If you are using the term denominations as they are generally used today, to define a group of churches with a shared hierarchy, or a shared set of beliefs and practices, or some blend of the two, which exist within the same time and place of other denominations, this is a recent occurrence. This did not exist at the time of the bible.

A self-proclaimed 'non-denominational' Christian might think this means their belonging to a church not affiliated with a denomination is more biblical. However, we clearly know from the bible that early Christians belonged to a Church with a definitive leadership, the apostles, who ordained and authorized others after the Resurrection. We know from the bible that the apostles exercised that authority and gave that authority to others. Most of the books of the New Testament are letters from Churches to the Church authorities.

torahpointstoHim · Jun 17, 2018

It is actually confusing to watch all denominations disagree on one should follow the Scriptures fully, partially or by some has considered it obsolete. Its sad that all our beliefs should come from one God only, yet in some way our divisions have been creating our own scriptures, our own religions (aka denominations), our own forefathers/church fathers. But I guess in all religions, as this is human nature, have other denominations. Not just Christians.

sunlover1 · Jun 17, 2018

Thomas Schular said:
If you are using the term denominations as they are generally used today, to define a group of churches with a shared hierarchy, or a shared set of beliefs and practices, or some blend of the two, which exist within the same time and place of other denominations, this is a recent occurrence. This did not exist at the time of the bible.

I hadn't considered the origin.

A self-proclaimed 'non-denominational' Christian might think this means their belonging to a church not affiliated with a denomination is more biblical.

Not belonging to any denomination isn't evil lol.
Or "self proclaimed"
it's just a fact.

However, we clearly know from the bible that early Christians belonged to a Church with a definitive leadership, the apostles, who ordained and authorized others after the Resurrection.

Amen!
And modern day Christians can have those same perks!
See Eph 4
Nothings changed really

We know from the bible that the apostles exercised that authority and gave that authority to others.

Yes, indeed.
And The Spirit of God is still ordaining!

Most of the books of the New Testament are letters from Churches to the Church authorities.

thank you

sunlover1 · Jun 17, 2018

torahpointstoHim said:
It is actually confusing to watch all denominations disagree on one should follow the Scriptures fully, partially or by some has considered it obsolete. Its sad that all our beliefs should come from one God only, yet in some way our divisions have been creating our own scriptures, our own religions (aka denominations), our own forefathers/church fathers. But I guess in all religions, as this is human nature, have other denominations. Not just Christians.

The division is also confusing to those on the outside
And worse, we lose out on the blessing we could
have if we had unity.

Is it a sin to divide into denominations?

Somebody's heretic

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