Is God's punishment for immorality consistent?

[Maxwell511]

I've been away awhile for some reasons that can be deciphered from my new sig, and I have noticed that General Apologetics no longer exists. This is a hindrance for what I was going to post so work with me while I try to mutated it to fit into an Ethics and Morality thread.

I would assume that a just God would institute an universal system of punishment to immoral acts. A very simplistic example would be that the punishment for adultery would be the same for two distinct individuals committing adultery, and within God's system being unrepentant.

Now from my understanding of Christian Doctrine a sinner will face an eternity of no hope and torture due to their sinful life and this is a thing that creates great pleasure in Satan. This for me creates a problem with God's system being just. The ultimate sinner, Satan, after feeling God's punishment exists in a much better state than your average sinner.

While your average sinner is in hell gnashing their teeth and wishing that their loved ones don't follow their path. Satan is hoping that they do. It seems that beyond the gate the only person that has not "abandoned all hope" is Satan.

That's the best I can do at explaining my thoughts on this subject at the moment. Please be kind.

 

[Verv]

I've been away awhile for some reasons that can be deciphered from my new sig, and I have noticed that General Apologetics no longer exists. This is a hindrance for what I was going to post so work with me while I try to mutated it to fit into an Ethics and Morality thread.

I would assume that a just God would institute an universal system of punishment to immoral acts. A very simplistic example would be that the punishment for adultery would be the same for two distinct individuals committing adultery, and within God's system being unrepentant.

Now from my understanding of Christian Doctrine a sinner will face an eternity of no hope and torture due to their sinful life and this is a thing that creates great pleasure in Satan. This for me creates a problem with God's system being just. The ultimate sinner, Satan, after feeling God's punishment exists in a much better state than your average sinner.

While your average sinner is in hell gnashing their teeth and wishing that their loved ones don't follow their path. Satan is hoping that they do. It seems that beyond the gate the only person that has not "abandoned all hope" is Satan.

That's the best I can do at explaining my thoughts on this subject at the moment. Please be kind.

I do not think that any two punishments would necessarily be the same as people are incredibly diverse in their feelings and intentions.

I also really cannot speculate that much as to the details in which hell exists; it is all debated amongst those who know far better than I so I leave it to them who are educated.

 

[seashale76]

Is God's punishment for immorality consistent?

Yes.

God is Love and His presence is like fire. How one endures this fire has everything to do with how they were tempered in this life, just like the three righteous youths in the fiery furnace were able to joyfully walk around unharmed in the fire, so did others who didn't love God perish just being near the fire. The fire didn't change.

Here is a quote from an old Wikipedia article on the topic (that doesn’t seem to be around anymore) that I thought explained it pretty well: "For many ancient Christians, Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God. St. Isaac of Syria wrote in Mystic Treatises: "... those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed!" This ancient view is still the doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church."

 

[TheBear]

"Is God's punishment for immorality consistent?"

If you're referring to the god of the bible, it's a mixed bag. As far as eternal punishment in some afterlife, yes. But while people are alive on this planet, definitely not. In the bible, god is all over the place and inconsistent in meting out his vengeance and 'justice'. It's as if eternal punishment is not enough. This is one way to understand that the bible is man-made and not god-inspired......to me anyway. (wouldn't want to offend anyone)

 

[Autumnleaf]

Yes, its mandatory minnimum sentences. Each offense has its alloted time in Hell and/or Purgatory. God even has his own Federal Heavenly judges who conduct trials according to established standards. Its really very fair and impartial. Just like life is very fair.

 

[Verv]

"Is God's punishment for immorality consistent?"

If you're referring to the god of the bible, it's a mixed bag. As far as eternal punishment in some afterlife, yes. But while people are alive on this planet, definitely not. In the bible, god is all over the place and inconsistent in meting out his vengeance and 'justice'. It's as if eternal punishment is not enough. This is one way to understand that the bible is man-made and not god-inspired......to me anyway. (wouldn't want to offend anyone)

A lot of the punishment and what not, a lot of the suffering, etc. we witness on Earth is utterly meaningless and i tis meant as a personal test.

In the Bible one sees entire nations receive punishments for offenses but when it comes to individuals very rarely are people rewarded or punished for what they do.

If you even look at the story of Job the hardships that he endures are entirely pointless.

 

[HighwayMan]

I've been away awhile for some reasons that can be deciphered from my new sig, and I have noticed that General Apologetics no longer exists. This is a hindrance for what I was going to post so work with me while I try to mutated it to fit into an Ethics and Morality thread.

I would assume that a just God would institute an universal system of punishment to immoral acts. A very simplistic example would be that the punishment for adultery would be the same for two distinct individuals committing adultery, and within God's system being unrepentant.

Now from my understanding of Christian Doctrine a sinner will face an eternity of no hope and torture due to their sinful life and this is a thing that creates great pleasure in Satan. This for me creates a problem with God's system being just. The ultimate sinner, Satan, after feeling God's punishment exists in a much better state than your average sinner.

While your average sinner is in hell gnashing their teeth and wishing that their loved ones don't follow their path. Satan is hoping that they do. It seems that beyond the gate the only person that has not "abandoned all hope" is Satan.

That's the best I can do at explaining my thoughts on this subject at the moment. Please be kind.

That's the problem - you don't.

What you are doing is arguing against misguided church interpretations that, although many still follow, are not what the Christian doctrine is about. This is the same as making a thread arguing that the earth is round, and saying that "science is wrong". It's not - it's just that certain people at a certain time were wrong in their understanding.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I've been away awhile for some reasons that can be deciphered from my new sig, and I have noticed that General Apologetics no longer exists. This is a hindrance for what I was going to post so work with me while I try to mutated it to fit into an Ethics and Morality thread.

I would assume that a just God would institute an universal system of punishment to immoral acts. A very simplistic example would be that the punishment for adultery would be the same for two distinct individuals committing adultery, and within God's system being unrepentant.

It is the same. Judgement from God doesnt happen in this life.

Now from my understanding of Christian Doctrine a sinner will face an eternity of no hope and torture due to their sinful life and this is a thing that creates great pleasure in Satan.

Satan is pleasured that others will face what he will and that others reject Gods ways and choose their own. Secondly there is no punishment for ones sins - no one can pay enough for them - punishment is for rejecting the payment made for them already. Christ already paid for all sin - the lake of fire will only contain those who reject that payment and satan is one of them that will be there - its written in revelation.

This for me creates a problem with God's system being just. The ultimate sinner, Satan, after feeling God's punishment exists in a much better state than your average sinner.

See revelation chapter 19. It says the smoke of his torment will rise up forever and ever. I wouldnt say thats better. God is completely just as we all have the opportunity equally for salvation.

While your average sinner is in hell gnashing their teeth and wishing that their loved ones don't follow their path. Satan is hoping that they do. It seems that beyond the gate the only person that has not "abandoned all hope" is Satan.

Where do you get this idea? Again read revelation.
That's the best I can do at explaining my thoughts on this subject at the moment. Please be kind. [/quote]

 

[CreedIsChrist]

A lot of the punishment and what not, a lot of the suffering, etc. we witness on Earth is utterly meaningless and i tis meant as a personal test.

In the Bible one sees entire nations receive punishments for offenses but when it comes to individuals very rarely are people rewarded or punished for what they do.

If you even look at the story of Job the hardships that he endures are entirely pointless.

Im gonna have to disagree partially here as far as you saying it is "meaningless", if it was meaningless I don't think God would have us go through trials and tribulations. Sometimes trials strengthen our bond with God. When we get hurt it shows how powerless we are and could at any time die and thus should only trust God and not wordly things. They definately have meaning

 

[Pliny the Elder]

Im gonna have to disagree partially here as far as you saying it is "meaningless", if it was meaningless I don't think God would have us go through trials and tribulations. Sometimes trials strengthen our bond with God. When we get hurt it shows how powerless we are and could at any time die and thus should only trust God and not wordly things. They definately have meaning

Yeah when I got in that car accident I knew better than to trust the doctors and nurses taking care of me.

 

[TheBear]

A lot of the punishment and what not, a lot of the suffering, etc. we witness on Earth is utterly meaningless and i tis meant as a personal test.

The OP wasn't talking about general suffering and personal tests. Neither was I. The OP asked about the consistencies or inconsistencies of god's punishments for immorality, and so was I.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

The OP wasn't talking about general suffering and personal tests. Neither was I. The OP asked about the consistencies or inconsistencies of god's punishments for immorality, and so was I.

theres no possible way to caculate the things of God. God's punishments defy description. As so does trying to explain them. A finite mind cannot comprehend infinite justice.

 

[Pliny the Elder]

theres no possible way to caculate the things of God. God's punishments defy description. As so does trying to explain them. A finite mind cannot comprehend infinite justice.

Or more precisely a logical mind cannot understand illogic.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Or more precisely a logical mind cannot understand illogic.

with the horrible things that happen in this world do you honestly think our minds are logical? We are a broken people. Broken things cannot understand perfect things.

"The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God"

 

[Verv]

Im gonna have to disagree partially here as far as you saying it is "meaningless", if it was meaningless I don't think God would have us go through trials and tribulations. Sometimes trials strengthen our bond with God. When we get hurt it shows how powerless we are and could at any time die and thus should only trust God and not wordly things. They definately have meaning

As far as trial and tribulation on Earth, then sure.

The OP wasn't talking about general suffering and personal tests. Neither was I. The OP asked about the consistencies or inconsistencies of god's punishments for immorality, and so was I.

Oh, well then I guess there would certainly be consistency in the fact that pure justice would be being meted out.

However, it might appear inconsistent to a human who were to witness it as humans are not omniscient or even logical creatures.

Or do you think we are, Bear?

 

[Maxwell511]

However, it might appear inconsistent to a human who were to witness it as humans are not omniscient or even logical creatures.

Or do you think we are, Bear?

I would think that humans are logical beings sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes.

A certain way of reading the bible, if one believed it, could also lead people to think that humans are logical beings.

In the beginning there was the Logos, God created man in his image, the image of Logos. That's all in the bible.

 

[TheBear]

theres no possible way to caculate the things of God. God's punishments defy description. As so does trying to explain them. A finite mind cannot comprehend infinite justice.

However, it might appear inconsistent to a human who were to witness it as humans are not omniscient or even logical creatures.

Or do you think we are, Bear?

Nice cop-out, guys.

 

[DarkProphet]

God seems to heavily favor the death penalty for a wide range of crimes. For example, in the story of the bald prophet he sends bears to tear children limb from limb for insulting the prophet. Then of course Jesus breaks all kinds of rules and stops the stoning of a prostitute so yeah, in that way it is very inconsistent.