Is God really good?

[jayem]

Can anyone provide a logically sound, objectively based argument (that is, one based on what we can actually observe about how the world operates) to support the idea that the Abrahamic God is good and not evil? (I use the term "good" to refer to the traditional religious concept of God's moral nature.) It seems to me, all we have is that the Bible tell us so. But if God were actually evil, wouldn't it be possible that he could have falsely inspired the Bible's writers in order to disguise his character? I think it purely comes down to faith. But, I'll still ask: is there any evidentiary argument to show that God's true nature is good?

 

[Honkytnkmn]

Can anyone provide a logically sound, objectively based argument (that is, one based on what we can actually observe about how the world operates) to support the idea that the Abrahamic God is good and not evil? (I use the term "good" to refer to the traditional religious concept of God's moral nature.) It seems to me, all we have is that the Bible tell us so. But if God were actually evil, wouldn't it be possible that he could have falsely inspired the Bible's writers in order to disguise his character? I think it purely comes down to faith. But, I'll still ask: is there any evidentiary argument to show that God's true nature is good?

There is a very logical way of looking at it. The sole fact that you can see good or do good for the sake of doing good, but you rarely see evil done for the sake of doing evil. The idea that you wouldn't even know evil if it were not for good, but you can see good apart from evil.

Good is above evil therefor God would be above all.

I would suggest reading "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis. C.S. Lewis makes a very rock solid case on the existence of God along with why God is good and for the Christian idea as opposed to other religions.

Very good read.

 

[LittleNipper]

Can anyone provide a logically sound, objectively based argument (that is, one based on what we can actually observe about how the world operates) to support the idea that the Abrahamic God is good and not evil? (I use the term "good" to refer to the traditional religious concept of God's moral nature.) It seems to me, all we have is that the Bible tell us so. But if God were actually evil, wouldn't it be possible that he could have falsely inspired the Bible's writers in order to disguise his character? I think it purely comes down to faith. But, I'll still ask: is there any evidentiary argument to show that God's true nature is good?

For GOD so loved the World that HE gave HIS only begotten SON that whosoever believeth in HIM should not perish but have eternal life.

You see, that at just the right time, when we were powerless, CHRIST died for the ungodly.

 

[The Nihilist]

There is a very logical way of looking at it. The sole fact that you can see good or do good for the sake of doing good, but you rarely see evil done for the sake of doing evil. The idea that you wouldn't even know evil if it were not for good, but you can see good apart from evil.

Good is above evil therefor God would be above all.

I think there are two arguments here, and they're both terrible.

Argument 1, as it seems to me
First Premise: Good can be done for the sake of good.
Second Premise: Evil can be done for the sake of evil, but this is infrequent
Conclusion: Good is above evil.
Criticism: I submit that good done for its own sake is as infrequent as evil done for its own sake. Moreover, the frequency of either does not in any way imply the ontological primacy of good.

Argument 2, as it seems to me
First Premise: Good can be known alone
Second Premise: Evil requires good to be known
Conclusion: Good is above evil.
Criticism: The stars require light to be known. Is light therefore "above" the stars? Moreover, I doubt the premises. I submit that in the everyday world, evil is much more obvious than good. If you are robbed, you notice. If someone near you is law-abiding and decent, you frequently won't notice. Therefore, good lacks the ontological primacy you would attribute it.

Try again.

 

[Zeena]

Can anyone provide a logically sound, objectively based argument (that is, one based on what we can actually observe about how the world operates) to support the idea that the Abrahamic God is good and not evil? (I use the term "good" to refer to the traditional religious concept of God's moral nature.) It seems to me, all we have is that the Bible tell us so. But if God were actually evil, wouldn't it be possible that he could have falsely inspired the Bible's writers in order to disguise his character? I think it purely comes down to faith. But, I'll still ask: is there any evidentiary argument to show that God's true nature is good?

You're here aren't you?

In spirit of your railings against Him, here you are!

Romans 2:4

 

[Beanieboy]

I think God is literally love. We talk about the eternity of Love, the Power of Love, understand Love, are healed in Love, forgive through Love, Create through Love, Give without wanting to receive through Love, feel whole in Love.

I think it is Man's idea of God that has changed.

I was watching "what the Bleep do We Know?", and these quotes resonate:

That I am at one with the great being that made me and brought me here...
and that formed the galaxies and the universes, et cetera--

how did that get taken out of religion?

It was not hard.

Most of the problems that religion and various philosophical movements... down through the centuries have produced... have been errors because that's where they're started--

That God is a distinct separate being from us...
to whom I must offer worship,
whom I must cultivate..
humor, please and hope to attain
a reward from at the very end of my life.
That is not what God is.
That is a blasphemy.
*****
If I do this, I'm going to get punished by God.
If I do the other thing, I'm going to get rewarded.

This is a really poor description...that tries to map out a path in life
for us to follow...but with deplorable results.

Because there really is no such thing as good or bad.
We're judging things far too superficially that way.

Does that mean you're in favor of sin and licentiousness and depravity? No.

It simply means that you need to improve...your expression and understanding of what you're dealing with here.

There are things that I do, and I know they'll evolve me.
There are other things that will not evolve me. But it's not good or bad. There's no God waiting to punish you...because you did one or the other.

His conclusion is that God doesn't have a map for our lives, one that we don't get to see, so that we walk in fear of angering him, of going in the wrong direction or making the wrong choice. Quite the opposite: we are offered endless possibility.

Gives you a totally different attitude and feeling about God, doesn't it? Rather than make you fearful and hesitant, it fills you with hope, happiness, freedom, and excitement about life. You feel Love.

 

[SiderealExalt]

A metaphysical vacation involving human sacrifice to fix the curse he apparently put on people in the first place for some odd reason doesn't say good to me. It says dysfunctional.

There is a very logical way of looking at it. The sole fact that you can see good or do good for the sake of doing good, but you rarely see evil done for the sake of doing evil. The idea that you wouldn't even know evil if it were not for good, but you can see good apart from evil.

Good is above evil therefor God would be above all.

I would suggest reading "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis. C.S. Lewis makes a very rock solid case on the existence of God along with why God is good and for the Christian idea as opposed to other religions.

Very good read.

Ad Hoc and selective perception doesn't make a good argument.


To answer you directly Beanie. I think that because holy is an arbitrary designation defined ultimately by the subjective opinions of the people that make up religions in the first place. That thinking a God is good simply for the sake of being one is well...flawed to put it mildly. Now, if we say had a list of things a God did,etc to judge and decide if it's good or not. Well...it has been said by many person over the centuries that the Bible makes God out to be a rather bad individual.

 

[Zeena]

"what the Bleep do We Know?"

Sounds great!

I'll check it out, thanks!

 

[HannahBanana]

EDIT: Double-post.

 

[HannahBanana]

I honestly don't know why God is believed to be good (especially since He obviously isn't good, according to the events of the Old Testament). I just know that believing that He is good helps me get through life.

 

[Zeena]

I honestly don't know why God is believed to be good (especially since He obviously isn't good, according to the events of the Old Testament). I just know that believing that He is good helps me get through life.

Then how, praytell, can you worship Him, seeing as He is not good in your eyes?

We worship one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Isaiah 44:6-8; Exodus 3:15).

http://christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rules#faq_sof

 

[The Nihilist]

Then how, praytell, can you worship Him, seeing as He is not good in your eyes?



http://christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rules#faq_sof

Her meaning was that she holds an unjustified belief. Whether it is true or false, she believes it is true without justification.

 

[HannahBanana]

Then how, praytell, can you worship Him, seeing as He is not good in your eyes?



http://christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rules#faq_sof

Who says that I worship Him? Like I said, I only believe in Him because that belief helps me to get through life.

 

[HannahBanana]

Her meaning was that she holds an unjustified belief. Whether it is true or false, she believes it is true without justification.

Thanks for standing up for me. I really appreciate that.

 

[Verv]

Overall, evil exists because of free will and in the afterlife justice is meted out. It really is a pretty simple idea that people can understand easily if they keep an open mind.

I think the opposition already knows what our response is and is merely trying to doubt a very obvious, old argument. Of course, you can oppose the argument but it is generally a sound one.

There is evil in the world but this life is only temporary, and even in the best of circumstances mankind suffers on Earth -- even rich people have to deal with tragedy like the rest of us. There is no paradise that could ever be erected here -- there will always be suffering. It is even a basic tenet of Buddhism: life is suffering.

In a sense, we suffer because we are put through a crucible by God to become better people through our experiences (this is hinted at several times in the Bible).

 

[Verv]

Overall, evil exists because of free will and in the afterlife justice is meted out. It really is a pretty simple idea that people can understand easily if they keep an open mind.

I think the opposition already knows what our response is and is merely trying to doubt a very obvious, old argument. Of course, you can oppose the argument but it is generally a sound one.

There is evil in the world but this life is only temporary, and even in the best of circumstances mankind suffers on Earth -- even rich people have to deal with tragedy like the rest of us. There is no paradise that could ever be erected here -- there will always be suffering. It is even a basic tenet of Buddhism: life is suffering.

In a sense, we suffer because we are put through a crucible by God to become better people through our experiences (this is hinted at several times in the Bible).

 

[Zeena]

Her meaning was that she holds an unjustified belief. Whether it is true or false, she believes it is true without justification.

She can speak for herself, I'm sure..

 

[HannahBanana]

She can speak for herself, I'm sure..

Yes, I can, but that doesn't mean that I'm not okay with people standing up for me. The fact that he did that actually makes him Christ-like.

 

[Zeena]

Yes, I can, but that doesn't mean that I'm not okay with people standing up for me. The fact that he did that actually makes him Christ-like.

And because he did, you refuse to answer the question?

Or did he speak correctly, in that you honestly believe God is good?

Whether it is true or false, she believes it is true without justification.

Yes?

 

[Beanieboy]

To answer you directly Beanie. I think that because holy is an arbitrary designation defined ultimately by the subjective opinions of the people that make up religions in the first place. That thinking a God is good simply for the sake of being one is well...flawed to put it mildly. Now, if we say had a list of things a God did,etc to judge and decide if it's good or not. Well...it has been said by many person over the centuries that the Bible makes God out to be a rather bad individual.

In general, God has been made in man's image. Want annihilation of your enemies? Look to the OT. It's full of God's wrath, even hatred, and if God hates, why not you?

However, it is usually the opposite way - you hate, so God does as well to back you up.

However, as I said, I believe that God is literally love, and something that even transcends the human condition. Often, when one feels love the most, be it from a close friend, someone with whom we are in love, or a parent/child, we feel that love is all that matters, that time stops, sometimes even see the divinity of each other.

So, I suppose for me, if one asks if "God is good", I would simply ask, Is love itself good?