Is everything "meaningless" without God?

Hieronymus · Jun 2, 2016

Alright, i've given it some more thought.

What is the meaning or goal of existence when it is finite and there is no trace of it to be reminded, or no consciousness to remind it ?
Obviously there is none, in the 'big picture' of our common finite 'natural' reality.

BUT, however, none the less:

Our experience of being alive is real, and it is good to be good to eachother.
This is a moral law we all subscribe to, even though we fail and are corrupt (usually by ego-centrism)
It is good to be good, love is good.
And yes, it is a good cause to make an effort to be good (to others).
We have a conscience.
We don't want to live in a loveless, hateful reality.
Do we?

But still, what's the use?

Freodin · Jun 2, 2016

Hieronymus said:
Alright, i've given it some more thought.

What is the meaning or goal of existence when it is finite and there is no trace of it to be reminded, or no consciousness to remind it ?
Obviously there is none, in the 'big picture' of our common finite 'natural' reality.

BUT, however, none the less:

Our experience of being alive is real, and it is good to be good to eachother.
This is a moral law we all subscribe to, even though we fail and are corrupt (usually by ego-centrism)
It is good to be good, love is good.
And yes, it is a good cause to make an effort to be good (to others).
We have a conscience.
We don't want to live in a loveless, hateful reality.
Do we?

But still, what's the use?

I still would like to know: what is the problem?

You keep searching for something where it doesn't exist. Meaning and purpose always implies an active and intentful mind. Without it, it simply doesn't exist. With it, it does exist.

Inseperable.

So why is "meaning" and "purpose" so important to you that you must have it, even if there is no you to have it?

Hieronymus · Jun 2, 2016

Freodin said:
I still would like to know: what is the problem?

No problem here.
Or maybe some thick skulls here and there...
But i can live with that.

Freodin · Jun 2, 2016

Hieronymus said:
No problem here.
Or maybe some thick skulls here and there...
But i can live with that.

I am not asking what kind of problem you have with people who do not agree with you on that topic.
I am asking for the kind of problem you have with the idea that "meaning" is limited. The problem that leads you to ask
"What is the meaning or goal of existence when it is finite and there is no trace of it to be reminded, or no consciousness to remind it ?"

It seems that you think, want, need "meaning" or "goal of existence" to be more.

I am curious about your reason for that.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 2, 2016

DeanW said:
I have children, family, friends, lovers and lots of needs.

Why do you choose to have children, family, friends, lovers, ect...?

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Davian · Jun 2, 2016

jason_delisle said:
Why do you choose to have children, family, friends, lovers, ect...?

"Emotional, isn't she?" -- Spock
"She has always been so." -- Sarek
"Indeed. Why did you marry her?" -- Spock
"It seemed the logical thing to do at the time." -- Sarek
- (Star Trek, Journey To Babel)

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 2, 2016

Eudaimonist said:
All you have done is quote Webster...and mentioned conflicting definitions.

In your own words and in the context of this discussion, what is meaning?

eudaimonia,

Mark

synonyms of the word meaningless : futile, pointless, aimless, empty, hollow, blank, vain, purposeless, valueless, useless, of no use, worthless, senseless, trivial, trifling, unimportant, insignificant, inconsequential

I don't know how to break it down any easier for you.

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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 2, 2016

ToddNotTodd said:
Nooo, the definition of "meaning" has no temporal component to it. If I give something meaning now, it has meaning. So it's still illogical to say that everything is meaningless without a god.

Well, we don't know if we'll travel beyond our solar system before the Sun dies, but even if this is the case...
so what?

synonyms of meaningless: futile, pointless, aimless, empty, hollow, blank, vain, purposeless, valueless, useless, of no use, worthless, senseless, trivial, trifling, unimportant, insignificant, inconsequential

I don't know how to break it down any easier for you.

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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 2, 2016

DeanW said:
Fall in love, have a child, get hungry, deal with racism or discrimination, find a friend who sometimes needs your help

Why?

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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 2, 2016

ClothedInGrace said:
Atheists don't need God to find meaning in life, because they simply create their own. That's what being a sinner is all about: you are your own god. They don't feel the need for God and never will until God's Spirit decides it is time for them to change.

Ask yourself what gives your life meaning and then ask yourself what why. Then keep asking why for each answer you give. In the end, I guarantee you will not have an answer because it is meaningless (vain, futile, insignificant, pointless, ect)

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ClothedInGrace · Jun 2, 2016

jason_delisle said:
Ask yourself what gives your life meaning and then ask yourself what why. Then keep asking why for each answer you give. In the end, I guarantee you will not have an answer because it is meaningless (vain, futile, insignificant, pointless, ect)

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God gives my life meaning. I think you misread my post as if I were an atheist.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 2, 2016

Freodin said:
Who is there going to say that it is all for nothing?

Nobody, and that is the point.

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Hieronymus · Jun 2, 2016

Freodin said:
I am not asking what kind of problem you have with people who do not agree with you on that topic.
I am asking for the kind of problem you have with the idea that "meaning" is limited.

There is no meaning when there is no Creator / God.

The problem that leads you to ask
"What is the meaning or goal of existence when it is finite and there is no trace of it to be reminded, or no consciousness to remind it ?"

I have no problem.
I ask a question and i answer it logically.

It seems that you think, want, need "meaning" or "goal of existence" to be more.

I don't.
God does.
That's why we exist, that's why the universe and life exists.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 2, 2016

FireDragon76 said:
It's unlikely Ecclessiastes was actually written by Solomon. The material seems to reflect a much later date. The book is similar in tone to Job, which was probably written down during the exile, and drawn from Mesopotamian folk stories. Both books reflect a very advanced, philosophical form of Judaism, and are reflecting on the basic anxiety that developed in the Jewish mind between the commandments of God and the vagueries of human existence.

Off topic.

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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 2, 2016

Davian said:
"Emotional, isn't she?" -- Spock
"She has always been so." -- Sarek
"Indeed. Why did you marry her?" -- Spock
"It seemed the logical thing to do at the time." -- Sarek
- (Star Trek, Journey To Babel)

Thumbs up for anything star trek

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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jun 2, 2016

ClothedInGrace said:
God gives my life meaning. I think you misread my post as if I were an atheist.

Sorry.

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Chriliman · Jun 2, 2016

Freodin said:
Original? True? Well, whatever gives meaning! Isn't that obvious?

So if there is a source of meaning, it is an original true source of meaning. What else can it be? And if there are many sources of meaning, each of them is a original true source of meaning.

What you are hinting at might be the first source of meaning... but that is irrelevant. The existence of one meaning does not invalidate the existence of other meanings.

If there's an original true source of meaning then all other meaning is derived from that original source.

An atheist thinks he is the original true source of meaning because he gives his own life meaning, nothing else.

Freodin said:
And round again you turn. Look at it, closely. With reason and honesty.
If you cease to exist, you do no longer ascribe "all meaning to life". Well, in fact you didn't do that when you existed.
But yes indeed... life still has meaning to "someone else". But look at it closely. Your very own words. Life still has meaning to "SOMEONE ELSE".

Well, who is it? The "obvious answer" is God, isn't it? Because there are only two beings in the world... YOU and GOD!

Really? REALLY???

I'm saying that I exist and that I don't ascribe all meaning to life. This is a logical thing to say because there are others who exist that do ascribe meaning to life apart from myself. I did not give them the ability to ascribe meaning to their lives. God did.

So no, it's not just me and God, it's God and all who He has given life to, me being one of those who He has given life and the ability to discern what is meaningful and what is not.

Winken · Jun 2, 2016

jason_delisle said:
The book of Ecclesiastes starts out with a startling exclamation:

“‘Meaningless! Meaningless!’
says the Teacher.
‘Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless’” (Ecclesiastes 1:2).

.......and he was spot-on, absent a creator. However, we are not absent God, the Creator, and never have been. Therefore, life is wall-to-wall meaning. Philosophy can only guess, not corner the truth.

Davian · Jun 2, 2016

jason_delisle said:
Ask yourself what gives your life meaning and then ask yourself what why. Then keep asking why for each answer you give. In the end, I guarantee you will not have an answer because it is meaningless (vain, futile, insignificant, pointless, ect)

In this nihilistic world that seems to frighten you so, why does the wolf pack not eat the pups, and instead feeds and protect them?

Davian · Jun 2, 2016

Hieronymus said:
There is no meaning when there is no Creator / God.I have no problem.
I ask a question and i answer it logically.I don't.
God does.
That's why we exist, that's why the universe and life exists.

Missed what the "why" actually was.

I infer from the context that it is like "why" oil exists, the reason being "to lubricate the workings of my car".

Is everything "meaningless" without God?

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Soli Deo Gloria

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Everything I need to be joyful is right here

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