Is Everybody going to heaven?

HighwayMan · Nov 10, 2008

Svt4Him said:
When has it ever been a numbers thing? If it was numbers, Jesus was the worst, as He lost all but a few when He was preaching. The word is bad, as 25% of it fell on good soil, the rest was destroyed. It's a love thing but equally a justice thing. Satan doesn't win in hell, he's there being punished just like the rest. Sorry, when you talk about what 'they' believe, it seems to line up with the Bible more than what you believe.

Does (your version of) Satan not want mankind to fall into his hands? Does he not rejoice when God's children are pulled away from him? Roughly 80-90% of all of God's creation will burn there along with him. Satan gets 9/10 souls, God only gets 1. And unless this is the way God wants it...can we not conclude Satan has the distinct advantage? In the battle for souls, he is indeed "winning", and by a very heavy margin.

Svt4Him · Nov 10, 2008

Does satan want worship? Sure he does. Does he think he's good enough? Sure he does. Will he be in hell celebrating? Umm, no. It's not like the far side where satan is the boss, it's the judgement of God. If you consider that winning, so be it. And again, it's not satan sending you to hell, it's sin.

HighwayMan · Nov 10, 2008

Svt4Him said:
Does satan want worship? Sure he does. Does he think he's good enough? Sure he does. Will he be in hell celebrating? Umm, no. It's not like the far side where satan is the boss, it's the judgement of God. If you consider that winning, so be it. And again, it's not satan sending you to hell, it's sin.

Regardless of any "celebrations", the simple point is that when it comes to numbers, he gets the vast majority of souls. If God does not want that to happen, but its still happening - guess what - he's not wining. That's just the very basics of it.

Floatingaxe · Nov 10, 2008

HighwayMan said:
Does (your version of) Satan not want mankind to fall into his hands? Does he not rejoice when God's children are pulled away from him? Roughly 80-90% of all of God's creation will burn there along with him. Satan gets 9/10 souls, God only gets 1. And unless this is the way God wants it...can we not conclude Satan has the distinct advantage? In the battle for souls, he is indeed "winning", and by a very heavy margin.

I can see that understanding and knowledge is needed. It is NOT God's will that any should perish.

People will because they choose poorly. Make no mistake here:

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord isnt really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.

God is love alright...He even loves those who end up separated from Him for all time, but even God is bound by His own edicts. It doesn't do people any good to rewrite His laws. In fact, it will get them the same punishment as the unbeliever.

Be forewarned:

2 Rimothy 3:1-0
1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

HighwayMan · Nov 10, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
I can see that understanding and knowledge is needed. It is NOT God's will that any should perish.

People will because they choose poorly. Make no mistake here:

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.

God is love alright...He even loves those who end up separated from Him for all time, but even God is bound by His own edicts. It doesn't do people any good to rewrite His laws. In fact, it will get them the same punishment as the unbeliever.

Be forewarned:

2 Rimothy 3:1-0
1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

Not sure what point of mine you are contradicting? Ok - it's not God's will that 9/10 of all souls will burn forever in hell - but it still happens. Therefore - things are not going according to God's will - they are going the way Satan wants them. Which then begs the question about what is so perfect about God's "perfect plan", but we can leave that aside for now and focus on the simple statistics. These are the plain statistics of how many are saved and how many are not in accordance to the rules of the God you worship. If your God wants to save souls, he is losing, and he is losing badly - regardless of whose fault it is.

Floatingaxe · Nov 10, 2008

HighwayMan said:
Not sure what point of mine you are contradicting? Ok - it's not God's will that 9/10 of all souls will burn forever in hell - but it still happens. Therefore - things are not going according to God's will - they are going the way Satan wants them. Which then begs the question about what is so perfect about God's "perfect plan", but we can leave that aside for now and focus on the simple statistics. These are the plain statistics of how many are saved and how many are not in accordance to the rules of the God you worship. If your God wants to save souls, he is losing, and he is losing badly - regardless of whose fault it is.

God created man with his own will. He will not usurp it. He is God. He follows His own edicts. If a man refuses Christ, he ends up in Hell. It is his own will that sends him there. Satan has his way with many.

God receives joyfully all those who love and serve Him by choice. Those of us among those counted in the vast Kingdom of God are WINNERS! HALLELUJAH!

HighwayMan · Nov 10, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
God created man with his own will. He will not usurp it. He is God. He follows His own edicts. If a man refuses Christ, he ends up in Hell. It is his own will that sends him there. Satan has his way with many.

God receives joyfully all those who love and serve Him by choice. Those of us among those counted in the vast Kingdom of God are WINNERS! HALLELUJAH!

That's fine. But just to highlight again - God's kingdom may be vast - but, in human-souls count, Satan's is 10X bigger. 1 out of 10 people you pass by on the streets will get the grace of God - the other 9 are bound for eternal punishment. Their human lives will not be a tiny molecule of a tear drop compared to the endless torture that is to follow.

Again, no problem. Just as long as we're clear on the statistics.

Floatingaxe · Nov 10, 2008

HighwayMan said:
That's fine. But just to highlight again - God's kingdom may be vast - but, in human-souls count, Satan's is 10X bigger. 1 out of 10 people you pass by on the streets will get the grace of God - the other 9 are bound for eternal punishment. Their human lives will not be a tiny molecule of a tear drop compared to the endless torture that is to follow.

Again, no problem. Just as long as we're clear on the statistics.

There are not "buts"...

Prove that Satan wins anything. His kingdom is dismantled! He is the biggest LOSER of all, and unbelievers by the truckload, sadly follow after him in destination.

Where does it say in the Word that the Kingdom of heaven is 10 times less in anything??

Is that somehow BETTER?

HighwayMan · Nov 10, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
There are not "buts"...

Prove that Satan wins anything. His kingdom is dismantled! He is the biggest LOSER of all, and unbelievers by the truckload, sadly follow after him in destination.

Where does it say in the Word that the Kingdom of heaven is 10 times less in anything??

Is that somehow BETTER?

You focus on the words "win" and "lose" and are trying to spin another argument out of them, but in this context they mean nothing else besides who gets more souls and who gets less souls. That is all. God gets 1/10 souls, Satan gets 9/10 souls. Just the cold, hard statistics with nothing else attached.

Svt4Him · Nov 10, 2008

Again I think you're flawed in the belief that satan is somehow winning these souls. Hell is judgement for fallen angels as well as sinners who reject Christ, satan is not the ceo of hell with an air conditioned office. He wins nothing.

Floatingaxe · Nov 10, 2008

HighwayMan said:
You focus on the words "win" and "lose" and are trying to spin another argument out of them, but in this context they mean nothing else besides who gets more souls and who gets less souls. That is all. God gets 1/10 souls, Satan gets 9/10 souls. Just the cold, hard statistics with nothing else attached.

Actually that is false. I am responding to the misguided notion that God loses anyone and Satan gains anything!

Where is your proof about the numbers, the ratio? Somebody's spinning a tall one here.

Where are the statistics and what Scriptural truth are they based on?

NOTHING, of course. Only wind.

Svt4Him · Nov 10, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
Actually that is false. I am responding to the misguided notion that God loses anyone and Satan gains anything!

Where is your proof about the numbers, the ratio? Somebody's spinning a tall one here.

Where are the statistics and what Scriptural truth are they based on?

NOTHING, of course. Only wind.

No, I think it's based on a poker game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyNTQ00CFtE&feature=related

Floatingaxe · Nov 11, 2008

Hehe...

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=NHz7csmoBI0

Svt4Him · Nov 11, 2008

Much better one.

enoch son · Nov 11, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
God created man with his own will. He will not usurp it. He is God. He follows His own edicts. If a man refuses Christ, he ends up in Hell. It is his own will that sends him there. Satan has his way with many.

God receives joyfully all those who love and serve Him by choice. Those of us among those counted in the vast Kingdom of God are WINNERS! HALLELUJAH!

chap. and ver. on will.

enoch son · Nov 11, 2008

Svt4Him said:
Does satan want worship? Sure he does. Does he think he's good enough? Sure he does. Will he be in hell celebrating? Umm, no. It's not like the far side where satan is the boss, it's the judgement of God. If you consider that winning, so be it. And again, it's not satan sending you to hell, it's sin.

So Jesus failed on the cross to take away all sin?

Floatingaxe · Nov 11, 2008

enoch son said:
chap. and ver. on will.

Try reading Genesis.

Floatingaxe · Nov 11, 2008

enoch son said:
So Jesus failed on the cross to take away all sin?

Looking at the hole rather than the doughnut again!

Jesus NEVER fails.

People fail.

HighwayMan · Nov 11, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
Actually that is false. I am responding to the misguided notion that God loses anyone and Satan gains anything!

Where is your proof about the numbers, the ratio? Somebody's spinning a tall one here.

Where are the statistics and what Scriptural truth are they based on?

NOTHING, of course. Only wind.

Ok. Let's debate the numbers.

Approximately, 1/3rd of the world population is Christian. The other is muslim, hindi, buddhist, other faiths or atheist.

Of that number, we know very well that not all Christians believe the same thing. Some believe you must be baptized to be saved, others say you need holy communion, 3rd in faith alone, 4th in faith + actions, and there are even some like me who believe in salvation for all. So even if we assume the largest group of these is correct, that would still leave us with somewhere around 1/10th of the world population practicing the correct version of Christianity, and therefore are saved.

As for the bigger numbers thing. There is this thing called 1st grade, where we learn that numbers with larger values are bigger than smaller numbers. 2 is bigger than 1. In the same way, 10 is also bigger than one. Therefore, hell has many more people than heaven - which is what Satan wants, not what God wants.

It is expected though that you would struggle to digest this elementary concept and will fight to the very end to somehow spin it into something else that will allow you to continue believing this misguided version of God without using any of the reason God has given you. Fear stops progress.

Floatingaxe · Nov 11, 2008

HighwayMan said:
Ok. Let's debate the numbers.

Approximately, 1/3rd of the world population is Christian. The other is muslim, hindi, buddhist, other faiths or atheist.

Of that number, we know very well that not all Christians believe the same thing. Some believe you must be baptized to be saved, others say you need holy communion, 3rd in faith alone, 4th in faith + actions, and there are even some like me who believe in salvation for all. So even if we assume the largest group of these is correct, that would still leave us with somewhere around 1/10th of the world population practicing the correct version of Christianity, and therefore are saved.

As for the bigger numbers thing. There is this thing called 1st grade, where we learn that numbers with larger values are bigger than smaller numbers. 2 is bigger than 1. In the same way, 10 is also bigger than one. Therefore, hell has many more people than heaven - which is what Satan wants, not what God wants.

It is expected though that you would struggle to digest this elementary concept and will fight to the very end to somehow spin it into something else that will allow you to continue believing this misguided version of God without using any of the reason God has given you. Fear stops progress.

Talk about spin, and fear!!

No, the Kingdom is comprised of 100% winners! All called, all chosen.

Is Everybody going to heaven?

Will everyone go to heaven?

Yes: Hell does not exist

Yes: Hell does exist but it is not permenant (God will rehab every soul)

No:There is a literal hell and those who go there never come back

I don't have an opinion / undecided

Well-Known Member

Legend

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Legend

Well-Known Member

Legend

Well-Known Member

Legend

enoch son

Guest

enoch son

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency