Is Church and State the same thing?

[devin553344]

I recently came to the conclusion that church and religion are in fact the same thing. And I wanted a Christian view of why it is or why it isn't.

I noticed the definition of religion:

re·li·gion
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Do some people believe in their country and worship their leaders? It appears that they do.

Then I noticed the similarities between the two:
Superior power over the people (super powers, especially today with technology), Have a Master, Laws, Judges, teach the people good from evil in schools, etc. and enforce it. They have prisons and perhaps even paradise areas, etc, etc, etc...

And perhaps even God said government is a religion but just didn't come out and say it? Or did he?: Romans 13:1-7

We also have a religion, Christianity that used to be a government, even back in Moses time all the way up to Jesus' time? So can you really claim to separate church from state?

 

[Pethesedzao]

I recently came to the conclusion that church and religion are in fact the same thing. And I wanted a Christian view of why it is or why it isn't.

I noticed the definition of religion:

re·li·gion
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Do some people believe in their country and worship their leaders? It appears that they do.

Then I noticed the similarities between the two:
Superior power over the people (super powers, especially today with technology), Have a Master, Laws, Judges, teach the people good from evil in schools, etc. and enforce it. They have prisons and perhaps even paradise areas, etc, etc, etc...

And perhaps even God said government is a religion but just didn't come out and say it? Or did he?: Romans 13:1-7

We also have a religion, Christianity that used to be a government, even back in Moses time all the way up to Jesus' time? So can you really claim to separate church from state?

Christianity is a living relationship with the Living God and His Son Jesus Christ. Also, you cannot separate religious belief and politics

 

[Jonaitis]

Separation of Church and State is more to remind us about the past than it about putting God on the sidelines. Despite the fact that Christendom is arguably said to have dominated most of Europe in Church history, there was much blood shed and people subjected in fear and mistreated who openly confessed what they held to be biblical truth in the face of several institutions that blended religion and state. It is actually for our own benefit that there is a separation, we have seen too many episodes where it went terribly wrong.

Israel is different, they were separated for the purpose of being a peculiar nation to God in covenant, intended to be a theocracy. We live in a pagan world, you can't force religion down people's throats.

 

[devin553344]

Christianity is a living relationship with the Living God and His Son Jesus Christ. Also, you cannot separate religious belief and politics

So then would government that is patterned after God and religion be similar and you would have a relationship with it's authority some how? Thru government supplied medicare, policing agencies, news and media?

 

[devin553344]

Separation of Church and State is more to remind us about the past than it about putting God on the sidelines. Despite the fact that Christendom is arguably said to have dominated most of Europe in Church history, there was much blood shed and people subjected in fear and mistreated who openly confessed what they held to be biblical truth in the face of several institutions that blended religion and state. It is actually for our own benefit that there is a separation, we have seen too many episodes where it went terribly wrong.

Israel is different, they were separated for the purpose of being a peculiar nation to God in covenant, intended to be a theocracy. We live in a pagan world, you can't force religion down people's throats.

Right you can't force Christianity down peoples throats, but you can force government on them. I guess what I'm noticing is that the government has many followers that aren't Christian. Is that their religion, what the government teaches? A default religion for people that have none?

 

[Brightmoon]

Well, in America, the founding fathers didn’t want the sectarian battles between Catholics and Protestants as they were perceived as pointless stupid destructive behaviour ! In Jonathan Swift’s Gulliver’s Travels , one story makes that very clear in his satirical description of pitched battles over which end of an poached egg to crack open . ( The Big Endians or the Little Endians ) It was written at about the same time and Swift was a clergyman! The founding fathers wrote it into the rules that you couldn’t abuse people over which religion they had and the government has to stay out of these religious arguments . We call it separation of church and state. Yes that does mean that atheists have the right to be left alone .

 

[Brightmoon]

The government gets schools and infrastructure built and passes laws for the common good. That’s how it’s sorta supposed to work .

 

[HTacianas]

I recently came to the conclusion that church and religion are in fact the same thing. And I wanted a Christian view of why it is or why it isn't.

I noticed the definition of religion:

re·li·gion
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Do some people believe in their country and worship their leaders? It appears that they do.

Then I noticed the similarities between the two:
Superior power over the people (super powers, especially today with technology), Have a Master, Laws, Judges, teach the people good from evil in schools, etc. and enforce it. They have prisons and perhaps even paradise areas, etc, etc, etc...

And perhaps even God said government is a religion but just didn't come out and say it? Or did he?: Romans 13:1-7

We also have a religion, Christianity that used to be a government, even back in Moses time all the way up to Jesus' time? So can you really claim to separate church from state?

In using your narrow definitions of each to find similarities between the two opens also the conclusion that any organization is a religion. That could be a bowling league or a knitting club. So no, church and state are not the same any more than a police department is the same as the Moose club.

 

[devin553344]

Well, in America, the founding fathers didn’t want the sectarian battles between Catholics and Protestants as they were perceived as pointless stupid destructive behaviour ! In Jonathan Swift’s Gulliver’s Travels , one story makes that very clear in his satirical description of pitched battles over which end of an poached egg to crack open . ( The Big Endians or the Little Endians ) It was written at about the same time and Swift was a clergyman! The founding fathers wrote it into the rules that you couldn’t abuse people over which religion they had and the government has to stay out of these religious arguments . We call it separation of church and state. Yes that does mean that atheists have the right to be left alone .

Separation of church and state. I'm starting to believe those words are the same and just created to allow people to worship their religion so long as it is not illegal with the "state" religion of laws.

 

[devin553344]

In using your narrow definitions of each to find similarities between the two opens also the conclusion that any organization is a religion. That could be a bowling league or a knitting club. So no, church and state are not the same any more than a police department is the same as the Moose club.

Sure you could look at it that way, yet perhaps God didn't ordain it and isn't in charge of a bowling league or a knitting club like it says in Romans 13:1-7? In other words, government must be more important to God, like a religion?

Can you expand on the narrow definitions or dismiss them? Thanks.

 

[Brightmoon]

I believe those words prevent fundies of any faith from burning people at the stake . You know they’d do it too. We’ve all heard those evil preachers calling for the death of gays and the suppression and oppression of women . If given half the chance they’d act just like the Taliban.

 

[devin553344]

I believe those words prevent fundies of any faith from burning people at the stake . You know they’d do it too. We’ve all heard those evil preachers calling for the death of gays and the suppression and oppression of women . If given half the chance they’d act just like the Taliban.

So then I must conclude that governments that have separation of church and state are teaching a superior religion of right and wrong, which I think is what religion does, while enforcing it as opposed to Taliban religion(government) or even other religions that might break their laws?

 

[ace of hearts]

So then would government that is patterned after God and religion be similar and you would have a relationship with it's authority some how? Thru government supplied medicare, policing agencies, news and media?

I unknowingly and with out my permission was trapped into the government system as a 12 year old by people who didn't understand. I now see no problem in accepting what I paid dearly for. I've looked at becoming a sovereign citizen. But the problems with that are very great and would only serve to push me further into unwanted problems. For starters I would be more of a lone wolf than I'm right now. I need social contact to be healthy.

 

[ace of hearts]

The government gets schools and infrastructure built and passes laws for the common good. That’s how it’s sorta supposed to work .

Educational institutions existed outside of the government at one time in our history.

 

[devin553344]

I unknowingly and with out my permission was trapped into the government system as a 12 year old by people who didn't understand. I now see no problem in accepting what I paid dearly for. I've looked at becoming a sovereign citizen. But the problems with that are very great and would only serve to push me further into unwanted problems. For starters I would be more of a lone wolf than I'm right now. I need social contact to be healthy.

Thanks for your reply. Healthy social contact is a good thing

 

[Pethesedzao]

Separation of Church and State is more to remind us about the past than it about putting God on the sidelines. Despite the fact that Christendom is arguably said to have dominated most of Europe in Church history, there was much blood shed and people subjected in fear and mistreated who openly confessed what they held to be biblical truth in the face of several institutions that blended religion and state. It is actually for our own benefit that there is a separation, we have seen too many episodes where it went terribly wrong.

Israel is different, they were separated for the purpose of being a peculiar nation to God in covenant, intended to be a theocracy. We live in a pagan world, you can't force religion down people's throats.

It's forcing it out of their throats which makes ALL the difference!!