Is Carlton Pearson a heretic?

JimB · Apr 1, 2007

Since universalism is a subject that is taboo in this forum, even though it is a doctrine that seems to be gaining ground among Charismatics, I am trying to find a way to make it a subject for discussion in this SFPC forum.

How about this

Charismatic pastor Carlton Pearson (Carmans former pastor) who calls himself a 4th generation Pentecostal preacher - has recently been labeled a heretic by some leaders (self-appointed and otherwise) within Charismatic circles - some of whom, incidentally, seem to have no problem with officially approved barking in church meetings or fleecing the flock over the airwaves - because of his newly changed views on universalism. He now believes, claiming divine revelation, no less, that every person will one day be saved, based on scriptures like those below. He has an online article entitled The Gospel of Inclusion (see full article HERE). Carman bailed out of Pearsons New Dimensions Church (Tulsa) when Pearson came out of the universalist closet, maybe because identifying with Pearson would curtail his already diminishing bookings, although he may have had theological reasons (although I have never saw Carman as a theolog, take his sappy song The Champion for example).

What do you think about all this? Do you consider Carlton Pearson a Charismatic heretic because of his universalism views? Or do you share some of his views?

\o/

You do not teach faith by argument; only by example.

Romans 5. 18 Therefore, as through one mans offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Mans righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Romans 11. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

1 Corinthians 15. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

Philippians 2. 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Colossians 1. 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

1 Timothy 2. 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 4. 10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Alpine · Apr 1, 2007

LOL! I like how you get your shots in at Carman there.

Actually, Much of Christianity believes in Universalism don't they? There is a segment of Catholicism that believes it, though it is not an official church teaching. Generally it tends to be believed ( I think) by more liberal Christians who do not take the bible as the literal word of God.

JimB · Apr 1, 2007

There is a distinction between Unitarian Universalism (liberal to extreme) and what is known as “Christian” or “Biblical” universalism (evangelical). You can read up on it by googling “christian biblical universalism.

\o/

You do not teach faith by argument; only by example.

NewSong · Apr 1, 2007

I really want to comment here but I am trying to find the right way to say what I want to say without getting the thread moved.

In my opinion, Carlton Pierce is a heretic and so is my brother and I am sad because I do not believe his belief system is that of the gospel and I do not find enough evidence to support his or anyone else's belief's in the manner he believes in the Bible.

I am sad that this has taken the twist it has and distorted the gospel. It is almost a belief system that people use to get out of having to pray for their family's salvation and not do our job to evangelize our communities. It is a lazy man's way to hell, in my opinion.

9-iron · Apr 1, 2007

1 Corinthians 15. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

Not all chose to be 'in Christ' though....

New_Wineskin · Apr 1, 2007

Jim M said:
Since universalism is a subject that is taboo in this forum, even though it is a doctrine that seems to be gaining ground among Charismatics, I am trying to find a way to make it a subject for discussion in this SFPC forum.

How about this …

Charismatic pastor Carlton Pearson (Carman’s former pastor) – who calls himself a “4th generation Pentecostal preacher” - has recently been labeled a “heretic” by some leaders (self-appointed and otherwise) within Charismatic circles - some of whom, incidentally, seem to have no problem with officially approved barking in church meetings or fleecing the flock over the airwaves - because of his newly changed views on universalism. He now believes, claiming divine revelation, no less, that every person will one day be saved, based on scriptures like those below. He has an online article entitled “The Gospel of Inclusion” (see full article HERE). Carman bailed out of Pearson’s New Dimensions Church (Tulsa) when Pearson came out of the universalist closet, maybe because identifying with Pearson would curtail his already diminishing bookings, although he may have had theological reasons (although I have never saw Carman as a theolog, take his sappy song “The Champion” for example).

What do you think about all this? Do you consider Carlton Pearson a Charismatic heretic because of his universalism views? Or do you share some of his views?

Well , let's see ...

The Nicene Creed

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy universal and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

Since we have agreed that this creed defines the essentials of christianity and since I don't see universalism contradicting it , I don't see his ideas on universalism making him a heretic .

And , no , I don't share his views .

New_Wineskin · Apr 1, 2007

Alpine said:
LOL! I like how you get your shots in at Carman there.

Actually, Much of Christianity believes in Universalism don't they?

I would say so . With the way that many say that forgiveness is required without a need for the person to repent , it is the very essence of universalism .

Forgiveness without repentance = universalism from how I see it .

KingZzub · Apr 1, 2007

Universalism is heresy.

If Pearson is a universalist, then he is ipso facto a heretic.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

NewSong · Apr 1, 2007

What do we do with scriptures like in Revelations 22 where you die the second death?

And what about John 8:24 Unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.
Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life
Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, (NASB)
Mark 3:28-29 Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin(NASB).
1 Timothy 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers(NASB).
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance

I guess my point is that heresy is a result of not taken the whole Bible in context and forgetting these scriptures, which are absolutely essential to know that there is definitely a punishment and seperation from God for those who do not chose Christ.

There are so many more than these to support my view and to support my opinion and belief's that this the above mentioned has an error in his doctrine.

Have to get to church and will support my belief's more later. I have this go around with my brother who is next to me and I love him dearly, but am sad that he and I do not agree and believe he is tryig to take a shortcut.

Always in His Presence · Apr 1, 2007

Jim M said:
Since universalism is a subject that is taboo in this forum, even though it is a doctrine that seems to be gaining ground among Charismatics, I am trying to find a way to make it a subject for discussion in this SFPC forum.

Folks,

While I realize that you wish to discuss this topic, the current CF rules (specifically, Rule 3.5 which neph posted above) prohibit this topic from being discussed in any location other than the Liberal or Unorthodox Theology forums. For that reason, the SF/PC staff will request that this thread be moved to the UT forum as was the other, where it will then be reopened.

Whether or not you agree with this rule, you may not discuss the rules in the congregational forums. There is a section of CF dedicated to discussing rules here. If you want to voice your disapproval of this rule, please do so at the link provided and not here.

Thank you for abiding by this ruling. We will try to have this thread moved and reopened ASAP.

Thanks,
-Pete

It's a taboo subject on this forum, so let's talk about it?

KingZzub · Apr 1, 2007

Hold on, can we not even talk about it in the sense of discussing how CP could have ignored the clear teachings of the Word of God, and the problems that may have arisen around his ministry.

I would love to talk to people who have first hand experience of CP in the last few years.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

nephilimiyr · Apr 1, 2007

As interesting and important as this topic may be, this topic is not to be discussed in the Christian only forums.

This is the third time a thread on Universalism has been started and each time a mod hat was posted to state that this topic is off limits to the Christian only section of Christian Forums.

Please let me state this so there is no confussion. Any thread started that is on or about Universalism is off limits to the Christian Only forums. If you wish to discuss this topic please discuss this only in the open forums.

The rule is:

3.5 Controversial Topics to Be Discussed Only in Certain Forums

A. You will not post content regarding the following subjects anywhere on CF except in Ethics & Morality, Liberal Theology, Christian Philosophy, or any subforums in the Congregation or Recovery* categories:

drug use
gambling
polygamy
extramarital or premarital sexual activity
homosexuality
transsexuality
abortion

*You will not make posts promoting or endorsing any of these subjects in Recovery forums.

B. Controversial doctrines listed below must be discussed in the Unorthodox Theological Doctrines or Liberal Theology forums only:

Full Preterism
Open Theism
Universalism or Universal Salvation
Annihilationism
Freemasonry

This thread is closed, and it shouldn't be the cause of any surprise.

Is Carlton Pearson a heretic?

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