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No, I was referring to the fact that predestinarians are also believers in Sola Fide. The opponents are normally believers in "works righteousness" and almost automatically believe that God will weigh the quality and quantity and timing of the person's works in deciding if he will be saved or not.By "how well we do it" being a problem, are you saying if we fail to make serious effort to live as we are told to, we are still good to go to heaven in Gods eyes?
Remember what Jesus told the APOSTLES: "I know you don't know how to live" "If you think you have it made, you have already failed". "If you trust yourselves to accomplish salvation, you have already failed".By "how well we do it" being a problem, are you saying if we fail to make serious effort to live as we are told to, we are still good to go to heaven in Gods eyes?
All people have pride to start with, in the flesh, when born. Like all children have bad stuff bound up in them.Why do some people have pride?
I read it. Still don't see how it has bearing on the subject at hand.Read again my post 638
First, please don’t bold everything you write. It’s like yelling and makes you look insecure. Second, you are privy to what God has done in the lives of everyone who ever lives? Do you see the problem in assuming you know this?
Well some of those OT guys did good works so they could walk with God but otherwise I agree.
Actually it says God raised him up, not created him for that purpose.
See, not created but merely promoted to that position.
Where does that verse say God hardened Israel so they’d crucify Jesus? First it says only some were hardened and second it was because they themselves made choices first and third, the crucufixion isn’t mentioned.
Read the rest of the passage from Jeremiah. God works on the clay BASED on the clays choices.
That is exactly what they hope for. I’ve talked to them. That’s their desire. It will not be granted.
Total depravity is the fallen state of human beings as a result of original sin. The doctrine of total depravity asserts that people are, as a result of the fall, not inclined or even able to love God wholly with heart, mind, and strength, but rather are inclined by nature to serve their own will and desires and reject his rule. Even religion and philanthropy are wicked to God because they originate from a selfish human desire and are not done to the glory of God.
The very power of God, the awesomeness of God, is what he did for us on the cross. God became human to teach us how to live, to die an undeserved death, and to rise from the dead. See, sin is selfishness and by God choosing to die when he is blameless and take the blame for all our selfishness, all of our sin, he performed the ultimate act of selflessness. When people realize who Jesus is and realize what he did and that he didn't have to do that, but choose to do that, even when people were mocking him, spitting on him, and torturing him, that's what saves someone, that's what breaks their sin and sets them free from selfishness.
Therefore, in reformed theology. if God is to save anyone, he must predestine, call, or elect individuals to salvation since fallen man does not want to, and is indeed incapable of, choosing him.
n Calvinist (Reformed) theology, unconditional election is considered to be one aspect of predestination in which God chooses certain individuals to be saved. Those elected receive mercy, while those not elected, the reprobates, receive justice without condition. This unconditional election is essentially related to the rest of the TULIP doctrinal outline and hinges upon the supreme belief in the absolute sovereignty of God over the affairs of man. God unconditionally elects certain people even though they are sinful as an act of his saving grace apart from the shortcomings or will of man. Those chosen have done nothing to deserve this grace.
So first thing is everyone is predestined because God knows everything. Some people think because God knows what will happen that this means we do not get to choose, but this is not true. Just because God knows what you or anybody will choose before you choose it doesn't mean you don't have free will. God simply knows what you will choose before you choose. This is like if you were to know the future does suddenly everybody from the parts of the future you know not have free will? Free will does not require not knowing what someone will choose. Free will requires that someone has the capability to make a decision without being forced to come to that decision.
Now when it comes to salvation, God predestined certain people to be saved by how he designed salvation. God wanted only humble people who choose to love him to be saved. He did this by becoming human and then dying in very humble way to confound the proud and fool those who lust after power.
Here's an example if the previous explanation did not suffice. If God wanted to save only the rich he would have designed salvation so that only those with large sums of money would be saved. If God wanted to save only the famous he would have designed salvation so that only those with a certain amount fame would be saved. If God wanted to save only the talented he would have designed salvation so that only those with so much talent would be saved. The thing is he didn't. He wants those who honestly love him to be saved, those who are humble , those who need a savior.
Paraphrasing from scripture, if there was a man with debt and one with a greater debt and they were both forgiven of their debts, who would love the one who released them of their debts more?
Today many people do not even think they have done any wrong or don't care, so guess how much they care when they are told their debts are forgiven. This is the way God has predestined those who are saved and those who are not. God has designed salvation so that the people who choose to love him and seek him will be the ones that are saved, not those with the most money, fame, talent or what have you. So if this true this means he has also predestined those who choose not to love or seek him to not be saved.
So ultimately those who will burn in the lake of fire never had any chance for salvation. God being omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent not only foreseen this, has the ability to prevent this, but has decreed that the majority of man will be created in this fallen state and punished for all eternity of no fault of their own.
If God’s judgment is unjust then we are forced to conclude that Calvin’s theology is incorrect because God is incapable of being unjust.
Does not make your case any clearer. You still have the issue of why some are inclined to choose and others who are inclined to reject. What does that say about a rescuer who comes back and only saves the ones who are willing to hold on to the rope?If a rescuer could just as easily and safely save everyone, but knowingly only saved a few what would you think of such a rescuer?
God is willing and wanting everyone to be saved, but if the person refuses to accept pure charity to the point that person would never accept pure charity (Love) than that person would not be happy in heaven, where there is only charity (unselfish, unconditional, Godly type Love). God is not going to force you to accept His Love (like He is holding a gun on you at some shotgun wedding) and God cannot instinctively place Godly Love in you (that would make it a robotic type of love).
No Dave, here's the clincher...
Total depravity must mean total depravity before we can understand the POWER that freed us from total depravity.
If God had to make a person a believer, than the Gospel lacks the power UNTO salvation. So basically Calvinism is a direct attack on the cross of Christ. No choice but to believe, and no choice but to burn is no choice in the cross.
Yes this. As in Ezekiel 36 we see the contrasts of a heart of stone with a heart of flesh.??
Some people have pride.
Some people don't.
Each person chooses whether to turn to the Creator or not to.
The proud resist Him.
The humble faithful PRAISE HIM !
Christ who could use any word to describe him described him twice as being "dead".I typically think of the prodigal son as one who is extremely backslidden and then came to his senses.
What's the Promise?I know, and as I said it's not Christ that fails if we lose our salvation.
Yes. So...?
Christ who could use any word to describe him described him twice as being "dead".
Wait. What drew my reply of "Yes. So...?" was the following:So a doctrine which contradicts scripture can't be true. It must harmonize. Paul and Peter preached that there was no partiality. Thus, there can be no partiality. Whatever you preach it has to be in harmony with this idea.
"You say there's partiality like it's a bad thing."
God thought it was a bad thing and had his apostles preach that he showed no partiality. You must reconcile your doctrine with that, rather than trying to contradict what God himself says.
No, I was referring to the fact that predestinarians are also believers in Sola Fide. The opponents are normally believers in "works righteousness" and almost automatically believe that God will weigh the quality and quantity and timing of the person's works in deciding if he will be saved or not.
Wait. What drew my reply of "Yes. So...?" was the following:
"If unconditional election is true then God would be showing partiality towards the elect."
That statement is so obviously true that it isn't telling us anything special. Therefore I asked "So?"
No, I was referring to the fact that predestinarians are also believers in Sola Fide. The opponents are normally believers in "works righteousness" and almost automatically believe that God will weigh the quality and quantity and timing of the person's works in deciding if he will be saved or not.
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