Is believing enough?

[larsonnata]

Hey so just wanted to hear what peoples thoughts are.

So the bible says that if we believe we are saved. How do we define believe? One could believe in God but not follow any commandments, are they still saved? Or one could follow all commandments but in their heart not actually believe?

Im from a non-christian family and my friends are also non christian, so the culture i live in often causes me to fall short in regards to following commandments but i definitely believe in God and am trying to get out of all the stuff of the world. Is my believing and trying enough?

 

[CalledOutOne]

Hey so just wanted to hear what peoples thoughts are.

So the bible says that if we believe we are saved. How do we define believe? One could believe in God but not follow any commandments, are they still saved? Or one could follow all commandments but in their heart not actually believe?

Im from a non-christian family and my friends are also non christian, so the culture i live in often causes me to fall short in regards to following commandments but i definitely believe in God and am trying to get out of all the stuff of the world. Is my believing and trying enough?

James Chapter 2

14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Faith is enough, but if your faith is not producing works (fruit, repentance, etc), then it is not TRUE faith.

 

[Boss_BlueAngels]

Very nicely done, calledoutone!

Just a heads up, Sharon101 or whatever, is probably going to come along and say you're going straingt to hell.

 

[RobertMerton]

Hey so just wanted to hear what peoples thoughts are.

So the bible says that if we believe we are saved. How do we define believe? One could believe in God but not follow any commandments, are they still saved? Or one could follow all commandments but in their heart not actually believe?

Im from a non-christian family and my friends are also non christian, so the culture i live in often causes me to fall short in regards to following commandments but i definitely believe in God and am trying to get out of all the stuff of the world. Is my believing and trying enough?

I see that you are pentecostal. So am I. I will give you my viewpoint, from a mainly pentecostal theology.
First of all though, I will encourage you in your faith.

Being the only christian amongst non-believers in friends, and in family is certainly a spiritually draining circumstance. I hope that you are able to go to church or to a cell group/bible study, so that you may have some christian fellowship. I also hope that you are doing your QT (quiet time/daily devotion).

Now to your question,

the bible talks about salvation by faith, salvation by grace, salvation by repentance, salvation by baptism, etc

I don't think just believing (the definition of believe in the modern context) is enough.

I believe you must be born again to be saved.

when i talk about 'believe' in the modern context, i differentiate between that and, in the context of when it was written in the scriptures, in the original greek or hebrew in its original meaning was to mean 'to walk with', or to 'be at peace with'.

I'll also show you Matthew Chapter 7. Jesus talks about in this chapter, the difference between true and false disciples.

it is quite a passage.

(Matthew 7, NIV) verse 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[EndlessSerenade]

I see it like this. If you truly believe in God, you'll want to be in a relationship with Him and when you are in a relationship with God you would want to read the Bible and follow the word of God. It's almost like a cycle. Often I see some of my friends say they believe but yet the live pretty rough lifestyles and then when asked they say well they still believe so they are saved. But it doesn't really work that way, cause if you really did believe in Jesus Christ, you would have made a effort to be personal with God. The belief they have for God is different to the belief I have in God. Their God and my God are two different Gods. I can't explain it better than that. My God isn't just a God that is there whenever it suits YOU, my God is there always and I am His child and will follow him. They clearly have a belief in a different God cause mine doesn't work that way.

I definitely think it's possible to follow all the commandments but still not believe. There are many amazing people in the world who live pure lives but don't know God, it's possible. The commandments of God are pretty reasonable and universal. It's not strange or foreign commandments, it's basic guidelines that most people follow any way. Like stealing, killing and lying. These are examples of commandments but majority of people follow them anyway.

 

[seavessel44]

I believe whether a person is saved or not is based on salvation.
Once a person accepts Christ as their personal savior and gives their life to Christ, they receive salvation, which can never be lost.
However, once a person receives salvation, they have to choice to live a holy or unholy life and chose what kind of christian they want to be.
Christians are judged on a reward system.

When everybody dies, the second we die, we all have to stand before God and give an account for how we lived our lives...Judgement immediately follows death.
This is what I personally believe.

Those with salvation will still be judged, but on a reward system. God will look at every sin we have committed and how we lived our lives as a christian.
Christians who followed God's commandments and lived holy lives (sharing, giving to others, forgiving others, remaining honest and humble, etc) will receive greater rewards in heaven, while christians who lived unholy lives (lying, stealing, lusting, judging others, unforgiveness towards others and seeking revenge, acting selfish and greedy, etc.) will lose many rewards, which they would have been given in heaven.
Honestly, I have no idea what these rewards will be, I like to think of the rewards stuff like as mansions in heaven and other stuff that everyone on Earth desires to have. But the bible is not clear on what the actual rewards are.
But you will still get into heaven because you received salvation.
Those who do not get into heaven are those who rejected Christ from their life.

But again, this is only what I personally believe.

 

[CalledOutOne]

"Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you-- unless indeed you fail the test?" ~2 Corinthians 13:5

"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [n]miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’" ~Matthew 7:21-23

Not everyone who believes that they are saved, are.

"For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, 'VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.' And again, 'THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.' It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God." ~Hebrews 10:26-31

Not teaching that you will lose salvation, for the work that God began in us will be finished (Philippians 1:6).
But if that person leaves the faith, they were never truly saved to begin with (1 John 2:19).

If you want to test yourself, then read the book of first John. It was written for this purpose:
"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life." ~1 John 5:13


This is the Bible's teachings, not my own.

 

[fallenangelxxunbreakable]

When you believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal saviour and accept his Holy Spirit to come and dwell in you. You are saved and set free. It is not by your works that salvation comes, buut by whom you believe in who died so that you can be free. What most Christians don't understand once they have received salvation (i.e. Accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior) is how they now as a saint walk in freedom that Jesus Christ purchased for us with his blood. Walking in freedom in Christ is understaning who you are as a new creation in Christ. And most Christians lack this. Maye I suggest you read 'Freedom in Christ'and 'Victory Over Darkness' by Neil Anderson. They are amazing at opening your eyes and understanding for what it means to be a child of God. I have only bee a born again Christian since 6th March, 2012. And those books have really helped me alot. Also I am also in the same scenerio as you surrounded by non believer friends and family and those who think they are Christians and yet their works don't depict that.

 

[CalledOutOne]

Maye I suggest you read 'Freedom in Christ'and 'Victory Over Darkness' by Neil Anderson.

I would not recommend those books. I remember Neil Anderson to be a sinless perfectionist (or perhaps Peter Lord). I'd recommend:
Moses’s Self-Denial :: Jeremiah Burroughs (1599-1646) :: Puritan Authors :: Classic Authors :: Monergism Books :: Reformed Books - Discount Prices - Free Shipping
Desiring God :: Godly Living :: Christian Life :: Monergism Books :: Reformed Books - Discount Prices - Free Shipping
Christianbook.com: Slave: The Hidden Truth About Your Identity in Christ: John MacArthur: 9781400202072
The Evil of Evils :: Jeremiah Burroughs (1599-1646) :: Puritan Authors :: Classic Authors :: Monergism Books :: Reformed Books - Discount Prices - Free Shipping
Justification & Regeneration | Charles Leiter

Both by Puritan Jeremiah Burroughs are probably available free somewhere on the internet because it is public domain. Justification and Regeneration by Charles Leiter is available free somewhere on the internet too as a Pdf.

 

[hedrick]

Hey so just wanted to hear what peoples thoughts are.

So the bible says that if we believe we are saved. How do we define believe? One could believe in God but not follow any commandments, are they still saved? Or one could follow all commandments but in their heart not actually believe?

Im from a non-christian family and my friends are also non christian, so the culture i live in often causes me to fall short in regards to following commandments but i definitely believe in God and am trying to get out of all the stuff of the world. Is my believing and trying enough?

What Paul meant by faith seems to include the overall direction of our lives, not just what we'd call belief.

You can definitely follow commands without faith. That the whole point of Romans. It's called legalism. But Jesus also seems to have judged whether people have faith by looking at what they do.

Remember however that Jesus didn't look for some kind of sinless perfection. In the parable of the sheep and the goals, the sheep aren't sinless. Rather, they helped people around them. And Jesus says elsewhere that anyone who gives a cup of water to someone because he's Jesus' follower will be rewarded. (Mt 10:42) And even faith the size of a mustard seed (which was the smallest object known to them) will move mountains. Jesus is looking for signs that you love God and your neighbor, not that you're perfect.

I think you're fine. It's the people who are sure they're saved that are the ones to worry about. (Luke 18:10 ff)

 

[fallenangelxxunbreakable]

Ofcourse you are entitled to your own opinion. And I respect that. That aside, as far as I know and believe to be true, no man is sinless or perfect apart from one man who walked the earth 2000+ years ago. Have you actually read these two books? Or any other books by neil Anderson for you to pass such judgement?

 

[CalledOutOne]

Ofcourse you are entitled to your own opinion. And I respect that. That aside, as far as I know and believe to be true, no man is sinless or perfect apart from one man who walked the earth 2000+ years ago. Have you actually read these two books? Or any other books by neil Anderson for you to pass such judgement?

I have read the books. I used to have a Christian counselor who recommended them to me. They are heretical and I wouldn't recommend them.

 

[fallenangelxxunbreakable]

I have read the books. I used to have a Christian counselor who recommended them to me. They are heretical and I wouldn't recommend them.[/QUOTE

Well they have been a tremedous help to me. And I would definately recommend them. I suppose everyone is different. What necessarily works for me won't necessarily work for you. But please may I suggest you don't tarnish Neil Anderson or his books/works as he is a wounderful man of God, who isn't a perfectionist or is he sinless. His books are life changing for people like me and many others out there.

 

[SavedByGraceAndLove65]

i can definitely relate to what you are going through,I'm the only christian out of my friends and family aside from a grandmother. That's one of the reasons I believe God helped me to find this website just to be able to talk to other christians to help give me strength and to realize I am not alone. now is the time we need to turn our lives around and live for Jesus. I'll pray for you.