• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Is belief in the creation story a salvation issue?

Status
Not open for further replies.

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,366
11,910
Georgia
✟1,094,287.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
But you have not answered the topic under discussion--is it a salvation issue?

Oh, and if it is so clear why are there two creation stories in the Bible and why do they disagree?

There are not two time-boxed chronological sequences in the Bible for creation - there is only one. What we have in Genesis 2 is added information for that chronological sequence in a pattern that the Bible uses quite often.

There is no timeline at all in Genesis 2 after vs 4 -

Genesis 2 focused on the Garden of Eden -- Genesis 1-2:4 focused on the entire planet and our solar system.

Which is the obvious answer.

But that is beside the point of showing how the Bible constructs justice and logic of the Gospel message on the foundation of the Creation account.

Those who imagine that God condemned all mankind and gave himself to die - for a confused hominid that "had a bad thought" while sitting in his cave bashing in his ration of monkey-brains make an atheist fairy tale of the Gospel, the Bible, Christianity. It is just the way the atheists would have it.

And then this thread comes along with 'yes -- but does that really matter'?
 
Reactions: Hieronymus
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,439
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟617,196.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat

Perhaps you could answer the question under discussion--is belief in the creation story a salvation issue? Yes or no?
 
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,439
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟617,196.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat

But the point of this thread is not "showing how the Bible constructs justice and logic of the Gospel message on the foundation of the Creation account."

The point of this thread is whether belief in that account is a salvation issue. Yes or no?
 
Upvote 0

Revealing Times

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2016
2,845
420
61
Clanton Alabama
✟123,106.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Why would God lie ? Why would God, who is not a Santa Clause type lie, tell untruths to His people(s) ? The truth is, He doesn't give us jibberish or half truths like Satan did. It is far more likely, by using logic, not by believing or not believing which is required, but by using mere LOGIC, that man just Can't understand/comprehend the depths of God's knowledge. Especially in the "limited Hebrew language". So instead, we doubt His Holy Word, which is very dangerous, because God accounts us as Righteousness that we believe God, that we believe on Jesus. 2 Timothy 4:3 has nothing to do with Christians belief in Gods Holy Word, but rather their UNBELIEF if what He says, creating UNSOUND DOCTRINE. As per Revelation, this is true, but when men ask others not to believe what God has said, then we are taking away fro the bible, and that was only for the Book of Revelation anyway, but a truth no doubt throughput the bible.


Distortion goes both ways, so it only matters who is right and wrong in their analysis.

MAY HAVE, but why would God need to give us fabrication ? The better answer is, men do not study the bible in depth, if they did they would know that a language with 4000 words is very limited, as compared to English. Many words are used in duplicity. The Translations are many times, no correct. This doesn't mean that God put forth an untruth, it just means that the word DAY in the creation story is WRONG. That is very evident.

Romans 1:20 is speaking about Man knowing and understanding that God created the world, because of Gods wonders, but Satan does blind some's eyes, but looking at and observing the natural world in no wise takes away from Gods Holy Word. There is no such thing as Evolution, there is adaption, but not evolution, t is a lie from Satan. If anyone believes we happened per chance, instead of being Created like God says, he is very much in danger of not believing in God it would seem. That is my opinion.

The reason I say this is worrisome is, Satan attacks us via doubt. Through doubt we give him a foothold to try and destroy us. The Israelis DOUBTED GOD on the desert, even after He delivered them. They DOUBTED Joshua's Report. The Doubted God would given them victory. So the wondered 40 years because of this Sin against God.

We should understand through God's prophetic words that He does what He says, and does not lie.
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Perhaps you could answer the question under discussion--is belief in the creation story a salvation issue? Yes or no?
He can't answer it honestly without betraying his real reasons for supporting literal inerrancy.
 
Reactions: Archivist
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,439
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟617,196.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat

So to be saved you must believe the Biblical creation stories, except that there are certain parts of those stories that you can dismiss?
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,366
11,910
Georgia
✟1,094,287.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married

So then in that post see see that we have the anti-Christian doctrine of atheist naturalism vs Bible-Creation that is of the form "in legal code" - "11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." - Ex 20:11

Perhaps you could answer the question under discussion--is belief in the creation story a salvation issue? Yes or no?

it is unclear to me -- what part of "atheist naturalism" is not "unsaved"???
 
Reactions: Hieronymus
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,366
11,910
Georgia
✟1,094,287.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
But the point of this thread is not "showing how the Bible constructs justice and logic of the Gospel message on the foundation of the Creation account."

The point of this thread is whether belief in that account is a salvation issue. Yes or no?

It is unclear to me that "rejecting the Bible construct for the Gospel is not at all related to salvation".

Perhaps you can demonstrate/illustrate that for us.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Why would God lie ?
Good question. God cannot lie - God is not a man that He could lie.
Men however can lie, and in fact in the world almost always do routinely, with no feeling of conscience or guilt.
Like the enemy tempted with the words "Did God say ...?"
So also the communists used the abomination lie of evolution to capture, trick, trap, entangle, and destroy the faith of little children under their control, and adults too, though that was secondary in their goals.

It's not just one or two lies that deceive, though it may start with just one or two,
but the whole system of lies and deception that goes along with any lie...
 
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,439
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟617,196.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat

But we are not discussing "atheist naturalism" in this thread. We are discussing whether belief in the Biblical creation accounts is required for salvation.

Why can't you just answer the question? Yes or no?
 
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,439
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟617,196.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
It is unclear to me that "rejecting the Bible construct for the Gospel is not at all related to salvation". Perhaps you can demonstrate/illustrate that for us.

And perhaps you acn answer the question. Yes or no?
 
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,439
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟617,196.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat

So now not believing the Biblical creation stories is being equated to Communism.

So, is it a salvation issue?
 
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,439
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟617,196.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
There's a lot of republicans , democrats, and independents also who don't believe Jesus. Not just commies.

But you are still ignoring the question--is belief in the Biblical creation account a salvation issue? The question is not whether failing to believe in the Biblical creation account can be a distraction.
 
Upvote 0

Revealing Times

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2016
2,845
420
61
Clanton Alabama
✟123,106.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
So to be saved you must believe the Biblical creation stories, except that there are certain parts of those stories that you can dismiss?
Do you believe God or not. You see, I explained the Creation story above, and what it means, and the order of it all. But you still think it is allegorical. Why do you think it is "just a story" ? Because you have believed evolution, lets be honest, this is why you do not believe the Creation story. That means the universe needs no creator, nor do animals, nor do we. God might very well see this as men hedging their bets (so to speak) by saying I BELIEVE, when they really in their hearts don't. You see, God sees our hearts.

YOM no doubt means a set period of time, an ERA, an Evening and a Morning or beginning and ending.
1.) First Day = 9.2 Billion years, MY REASONING IS, the Second day began with the Heavens above the Earth and the Earth having water. (God divided the Waters) So 13.7 Billion years until 4.5 Billion years is an ERA (YOM/DAY) of 9.2 Billion years. BUT....Does it fit ? Is it logical ? The answer is yes, when you look at NASA's WMAP map (see post #26 to see the WMAP map), it shows EXACTLY what the Bible says, a period of Darkness for 400 million years ( Darkness was on the face of the Deep, then Light came next !! ). Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

The Earth was not formed yet, CLEAR AS DAY, and the DARKNESS came first CLEAR AS DAY, then the Light came next, CLEAR AS DAY, the Stars started forming after 400 Million years of Darkness, God, as always, is 100 percent correct.

2.) Day Two is from 4.5 Billion years BC until the next ERA (YOM/DAY) and the bible clearly tells us what the NEXT ERA was, it was the Third Day, the ------11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. So when did Grass start forming on the Earth ? Science tells us about 900 Million years ago, give or take, so the Second Day is 4.5 Billion Years until 900 Million years BC, which is an ERA (YOM/DAY) of 3.6 Billion years.

And SO ON, I can go through all 6 Days, and show how they actually correlate with scientific facts. For instance, God says on the Fifth Day, He created the Sea Creatures, Science tells us that the Sea Creature came at about the 500 Million BC mark, before the Land animals which God said He created on the SIXTH DAY, which started coming around at about the 250 Million BC mark. So the bible is 100 percent accurate. It is men who are confused. Because they just can't believe the scriptures in full, after all the bible says man is only 6000 years old. AGAIN, this takes logic to figure out. Man was not Created in God's Image, until He imparted man with His Spirit, before that, animals like man, were just animals, not a man made in GODS IMAGE. After God created man, at the 6000 BC mark the bible says God rested. But the Creation is still going on, what Gives? Well this explains verse one, God created the Heaven and Earth.....God gave the commandment, that was His first order of business so to speak, commanding the Universe to come into being, that doesn't mean the Earth came about at the 13.7 Billion BC mark, it only means GOD COMMANDED IT TO BE. If this was not the case, then God could not be RESTING, because the Universe is STILL FORMING..........So it is evident that verse one, is not saying the Earth was formed before the Stars, we know this because we have to use LOGIC, it was a Commandment of God, and the Earth was still FORMLESS and VOID. It all fits, if we use logic and believe what God says is truth. We did not evolve from lower life forms, this is pure bunk, that comes from Satan.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
So rid yourselves of all vulgarity and obvious evil, and receive meekly the Word implanted in you that can save your lives.
Don’t deceive yourselves by only hearing what the Word says, but do it!
For whoever hears the Word but doesn’t do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror,
who looks at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.

But if a person looks closely into the perfect Torah, which gives freedom, and continues, becoming not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work it requires, then he will be blessed in what he does.

Anyone who thinks he is religiously observant but does not control his tongue is deceiving himself, and his observance counts for nothing.
The religious observance that God the Father considers pure and faultless is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being contaminated by the world.

James from
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
Copyright © 1998 by David H. Stern. All rights reserved.
 
Reactions: Sam91
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,439
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟617,196.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
So if you do not believe the exact Biblical account and instead believe that The creation took millions of years that is fine, but if you believe that God in any way used evolution then you will burn in hell.
 
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,439
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟617,196.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
None of which has anything to do with this thread.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,366
11,910
Georgia
✟1,094,287.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married

But we are not discussing "atheist naturalism" in this thread. We are discussing whether belief in the Biblical creation accounts is required for salvation.

So then rejecting the Bible - for some "other undefined" religious doctrine on origins?

Please give an example.

So if you do not believe the exact Biblical account and instead believe that The creation took millions of years that is fine, but if you believe that God in any way used evolution then you will burn in hell.

Oh no wait! you are talking about atheist naturalism vs the Bible.

Seems like we get two different examples of the question depending on the post.

Clarity in the question leads to clarity in the solution.
 
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,439
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟617,196.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat

The question is clear. "Is belief in the craetion story a salvation issue?" Can't get much more clear than that. You are apparently unable to provide a simple answer. If you are not going to answer the question then please get out of the thread.

There are milliosn of Christians who believe the Bible but see the two different creation stories in Genesis as being allegories, not factual. We are not talking about "atheist naturalism."
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.