Is baptism necessary to be saved? (2)

[ChrisBot]

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[evangelist]

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What sins did a infant do that they have to get baptized any ways?
Can an infant repent?
Does a infant understand what water baptism is , and what it does?
Do they have a free choice to get baptized??
What make them righteous the water or the Spirit, or the believing
can an infant believe??

 

[apenman]

The answer is no. It isn't required.

 

[AngelusSax]

What sins did a infant do that they have to get baptized any ways?
Can an infant repent?

Is repentance necessary for baptism in Christ? John's Baptism was of repentance, but supposedly, one was coming after him whose baptism was of something entirely different...

Yet we still want to say it's a "believer's baptism (of repentance)"

Can God come to an infant? If not, then they should not be baptized, probably. If, however, God has ordained on the lips of infants and children praise, and God can come to them... why not?

What make them righteous the water or the Spirit, or the believing
can an infant believe??

The Spirit can work through water, so far as I know (It's the Spirit... it can do anything it wants).

Can an infant believe? Well, let us not hinder the children coming to Jesus. Show me proof they can't believe, as I believe God writes his laws on our hearts.

 

[evangelist]

Is repentance necessary for baptism in Christ? John's Baptism was of repentance, but supposedly, one was coming after him whose baptism was of something entirely different...

Yet we still want to say it's a "believer's baptism (of repentance)"

Can God come to an infant? If not, then they should not be baptized, probably. If, however, God has ordained on the lips of infants and children praise, and God can come to them... why not?



The Spirit can work through water, so far as I know (It's the Spirit... it can do anything it wants).

Can an infant believe? Well, let us not hinder the children coming to Jesus. Show me proof they can't believe, as I believe God writes his laws on our hearts.

Does God force Himself on infants?
I though it is a choice to be believe?
I thought the Holy Spirit can only do what the bible say it can do?
If the Holy Spirit can do nothing it wants He can't live in satan himself?
Can He lie?

Shalom

 

[AngelusSax]

Does God force Himself on infants?
I though it is a choice to be believe?

Adults are supposed to become like little children... so why do we decide to hinder little children?

And does God choose us, or was it only the Twelve Disciples that God chose?

I thought the Holy Spirit can only do what the bible say it can do?

The Holy Spirit can enter someone at any time. Again, when did Jesus ever say "do not baptize infants"?

In fact, Jesus' only command on baptism was to go and baptize all nations -- no age requirement... and no understanding level required, as let's face it, most adults don't understand what happens at Baptism (some more than others, but most not completely)

If the Holy Spirit can do naything it wants can He live in satan himself?

Can but won't, most likely... or perhaps the Holy Spirit doesn't want to. Remember... it was only at God's call that Satan took everything from Job.

Can He lie?

I doubt it, since the Holy Spirit doesn't want to lie.

So anyway, you show me Scriptural proof where you must be a certain age or at a certain level of understanding and able to voice that understanding to be saved. Because the Gospels I read all show a Jesus who chooses us, and then we follow, and we can turn away later if we so choose to, but it is still Jesus who initiates, and we don't start it out by running to him... he runs to us.

EDIT: I am talking about Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I believe the Spirit CAN use water, but is not limited to water. Of course, the words "This is my Son, in whom I am well pleased" are uttered when? At Jesus' Baptism... Maybe before, I admit to having a less than photographic memory, but I don't recall those words being said before Jesus' Baptism in the Jordan River.

 

[NothingButTheBlood]

My impression of baptism is this. You do not have to be baptised to be saved or enter Heaven. If you accept Christ as your savior then immediately get hit by a car you don't not get into Heaven. Baptism is an outward expression of an inward commitment. In other words once you are saved you should want to get baptised as a way of showing your faith and commitment to being born again. Infants/children are not responcible to be baptised or saved until they reach an age of understanding. That is they know the difference between right and wrong.

 

[AngelusSax]

You do not have to be baptised to be saved or enter Heaven. If you accept Christ as your savior then immediately get hit by a car you don't not get into Heaven.

Perhaps water Baptism, with just water. But I am referring to Baptism of the Holy Spirit... and I do believe God's Grace extends beyond this.

I can agree with accepting God... it's when people say they choose God that I take issue, as I hold god chooses us, and we can either accept or reject (and I believe there is no age limit for what is written on a heart).

 

[NothingButTheBlood]

Sorry the title didn't clarify Holy Spirit or water.

 

[muffler dragon]

This topic has been/had been beaten to death in the Non-denomination forum in CO. I never thought it would rear its ugly head on this side of the divide.

Anyways... make a long story short: baptism is not necessary nor essential for salvation.

m.d.

 

[evangelist]

Adults are supposed to become like little children... so why do we decide to hinder little children?

And does God choose us, or was it only the Twelve Disciples that God chose?



The Holy Spirit can enter someone at any time. Again, when did Jesus ever say "do not baptize infants"?

In fact, Jesus' only command on baptism was to go and baptize all nations -- no age requirement... and no understanding level required, as let's face it, most adults don't understand what happens at Baptism (some more than others, but most not completely)



Can but won't, most likely... or perhaps the Holy Spirit doesn't want to. Remember... it was only at God's call that Satan took everything from Job.



I doubt it, since the Holy Spirit doesn't want to lie.

So anyway, you show me Scriptural proof where you must be a certain age or at a certain level of understanding and able to voice that understanding to be saved. Because the Gospels I read all show a Jesus who chooses us, and then we follow, and we can turn away later if we so choose to, but it is still Jesus who initiates, and we don't start it out by running to him... he runs to us.

EDIT: I am talking about Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I believe the Spirit CAN use water, but is not limited to water. Of course, the words "This is my Son, in whom I am well pleased" are uttered when? At Jesus' Baptism... Maybe before, I admit to having a less than photographic memory, but I don't recall those words being said before Jesus' Baptism in the Jordan River.

can a infant believe?
Can a infant teach all nations?
Can a infant repent of their sins if any?

 

[evangelist]

My impression of baptism is this. You do not have to be baptised to be saved or enter Heaven. If you accept Christ as your savior then immediately get hit by a car you don't not get into Heaven. Baptism is an outward expression of an inward commitment. In other words once you are saved you should want to get baptised as a way of showing your faith and commitment to being born again. Infants/children are not responcible to be baptised or saved until they reach an age of understanding. That is they know the difference between right and wrong.

I agree 1000% with you.

This is also my understanding and what I learned , an´d heard from bible scholars and bible teachers, and was taught to me in my church, and taught to me in our baptism classes, which we teach those who want to get batized and learn why they are getting baptized and to completly understand baptism.


AMEN!

God Bless

 

[Blackmarch]

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Yes

If it was a silly tradition, why didn't Christ keep the other traditions as well?

 

[muffler dragon]

Yes

If it was a silly tradition, why didn't Christ keep the other traditions as well?

I have to ask: what does keeping any tradition have to do with salvation?

 

[Blackmarch]

I have to ask: what does keeping any tradition have to do with salvation?

Many think baptism as not important. The purpose of the question was to point out that Christ didn't follow the false traditions/teachings in his time, and was many a time accused by the Pharisees for breaking tradition (which was true) If he didn't follow those traditions, and baptism was a trivial thing or traditional but didn't really matter why did he get baptised?

 

[apenman]

Many think baptism as not important. The purpose of the question was to point out that Christ didn't follow the false traditions/teachings in his time, and was many a time accused by the Pharisees for breaking tradition (which was true) If he didn't follow those traditions, and baptism was a trivial thing or traditional but didn't really matter why did he get baptised?

Baptism is symbolic of the sacrifice of Christ, so He was baptised to focus attention on the sacrifice which was to come.

 

[AngelusSax]

can a infant believe?
Can a infant teach all nations?
Can a infant repent of their sins if any?

Yes (I believe faith is from God, not ourselves)
No (But they can grow in faith and then teach when the time comes just like newly converted adults must do)
They can receive the Grace of God to quell the old Adam (sin nature) and have Christ in them. Same process that happens to adults who are recent recipients of God's Grace.

 

[Blackmarch]

Baptism is symbolic of the sacrifice of Christ, so He was baptised to focus attention on the sacrifice which was to come.

Um about everything in the Gospel is symbolical of some point regarding the Sacrifice, death, resurrection, and atonement of Christ.

 

[apenman]

Um about everything in the Gospel is symbolical of some point regarding the Sacrifice, death, resurrection, and atonement of Christ.

Yes, there is a tremendous amount of symbolism in scripture, and this holds true for water baptism.

 

[Blackmarch]

Yes, there is a tremendous amount of symbolism in scripture, and this holds true for water baptism.

Exactly and there are about only two things that symbolise his atonement the most (that one can think of); Baptism, and the sacrament (or the communion, as it is called in other sects).