Is Apostolic succession biblical?

Landon Caeli · Dec 22, 2022

From what I understand, the Apostles did select a new Apostle to replace Judas, which can be found in Acts 1:21-26 .

In other texts, such as Timothy 1:6 , Timothy 4:14 , and Timothy 5:22 , we see Apostles being reminded to "lay their hands" on elders, to confirm them as Church leaders.

...So in the Bible, we see the replacement of an Apostle, by the laying on of hands, as well as others who were selected for other leadership roles, by the laying on of hands as well.

HTacianas · Dec 22, 2022

Landon Caeli said:
From what I understand, the Apostles did select a new Apostle to replace Judas, which can be found in Acts 1:21-26 .

In other texts, such as Timothy 1:6 , Timothy 4:14 , and Timothy 5:22 , we see Apostles being reminded to "lay their hands" on elders, to confirm them as Church leaders.

...So in the Bible, we see the replacement of an Apostle, by the laying on of hands, as well as others who were selected for other leadership roles, by the laying on of hands as well.

Yes. Apostolic succession is biblical for all of the reasons you posted. For a direct reference to it see 1 Clement.

IceJad · Dec 22, 2022

Apostolic succession is biblical as in the event is recorded in the Bible. Now comes the difficult part which schism many denominations, is apostolic succession the only method to form a church? In this I meant a church that every believer acknowledge is in communion with (another touchy subject). Must each pastor or priest be confirmed by a representative of an unbroken line of apostle? My personal opinion is no. I believe that the Lord can choose anyone to be His apostle and disciple so long as they have accepted the salvation and teachings of the Lord. Of course to ensure that a person is truly equipped, it is preferable to have them graduate from a theological seminary.

sandman · Dec 22, 2022

Quite honestly, I think it is much to do about nothing.

Starting with the misrepresentation of Mat 16:18. Which we know Christ did not build his church upon Pete….. That does not negate the great things that Peter did do…. He was instrumental in the movement of the Word of God after Pentecost.

The whole apostolic succession even if it does have any validity to it, is nothing more than a religious pride parade.

No believer today is any greater than another. We may perform different functions but we have all been given everything that was accomplished through Christ. From a babe in Christ to the eldest, we all have been given the same capacity to believe (faith) the same spirit of God, the same sanctification, justification, redemption, and remission.

Those with gift ministries have a greater responsibility horizontally serving Gods people. But with the spirit within, we all have the ability to operate all 9 manifestation of the spirit ….God is no respecter of persons ….only conditions.

I believe that the laying on of hands in Timothy was about the gift ministries listed in Eph 4… (2Ti 4:5)

Yekcidmij · Dec 24, 2022

Landon Caeli said:
From what I understand, the Apostles did select a new Apostle to replace Judas, which can be found in Acts 1:21-26 .

In other texts, such as Timothy 1:6 , Timothy 4:14 , and Timothy 5:22 , we see Apostles being reminded to "lay their hands" on elders, to confirm them as Church leaders.

...So in the Bible, we see the replacement of an Apostle, by the laying on of hands, as well as others who were selected for other leadership roles, by the laying on of hands as well.

Surely some sort of ordination process is biblical - which is at least one thing that apostolic succession should ideally achieve. It places some sort of quality control on ministers as an ordination can always be revoked by the people who conferred it in the first place. Even in churches that don't claim apostolic succession, there is still usually an ordination process where one group of recognized ministers confer ordination on new ministers and thus there is some sort of "succession" in ordination.

I think what nobody wants is the situation like in the link below where a bunch of self appointed ministers start deciding who is and isn't qualified as a minister. And this is one of the risks inherent in an organization where nobody has formally conferred ordination on self-ordained ministers - it's a little harder to hold self-ordained ministers accountable. In my opinion, this sort of thing is observable in parachurch 501(c)(3) ministries in particular.

Statement Regarding RZIM Senior Leadership Team Members Michael Ramsden, Sarah (Davis) Phillips and Abdu Murray - Risen Jesus, Inc.

Statement Regarding RZIM Senior Leadership Team Members Michael Ramsden, Sarah (Davis) Phillips[1] and Abdu Murray November 9, 2022 On December 22, 2020, Miller & Martin PLLC released an interim report on its “independent investigation into allegations of sexual harassment raised against Ravi...

www.risenjesus.com

Landon Caeli · Dec 24, 2022

sandman said:
Quite honestly, I think it is much to do about nothing.

Starting with the misrepresentation of Mat 16:18. Which we know Christ did not build his church upon Pete….. That does not negate the great things that Peter did do…. He was instrumental in the movement of the Word of God after Pentecost.

The whole apostolic succession even if it does have any validity to it, is nothing more than a religious pride parade.

No believer today is any greater than another. We may perform different functions but we have all been given everything that was accomplished through Christ. From a babe in Christ to the eldest, we all have been given the same capacity to believe (faith) the same spirit of God, the same sanctification, justification, redemption, and remission.

Those with gift ministries have a greater responsibility horizontally serving Gods people. But with the spirit within, we all have the ability to operate all 9 manifestation of the spirit ….God is no respecter of persons ….only conditions.

I believe that the laying on of hands in Timothy was about the gift ministries listed in Eph 4… (2Ti 4:5)

It seems like we all agree that the laying on of hands has gift benefits of some kind, and that this tradition has been passed down from the Apostles to the present day.

...What we may or may not agree on is what level of authority to lead may be passed on, along with that gift / benefit. Or what it entails at all.

...What I see though, is that the Apostles were looking for someone who was with Jesus since his baptism, when selecting Matthias, as one of the 12... Then *their own hands*, having touched Jesus Himself, and knowing Him, had become the basis for passing on their own authority... There seems to be a common theme here, with this, in that there is a continued "touching on" beginning with Christ, and that touching on, or laying on of hands, has continued on up until this very day, where there are people now, among us, who have touched someone, who has touched someone, who has touched Jesus Christ our Lord.

...I don't know if there is any significance to that thought, but it seems interesting to me.

PsaltiChrysostom · Dec 24, 2022

Part of Apostolic Succession was very practical. You needed to be able to say, I was taught by John who was taught by Timothy who was taught by Paul. That way you weren't just a traveling preacher with no connection to the Apostles.

BobRyan · Dec 30, 2022

Landon Caeli said:
From what I understand, the Apostles did select a new Apostle to replace Judas, which can be found in Acts 1:21-26 .

True- but none to replace James.
And no indication that as successive apostles died - the selected new apostles.

Almost all of the Apostles died by the time John wrote Revelation and the Gospel of John -- but no account of replacing them.

So in fact all we have is "Judas" being replaced via Apostolic succession.

Landon Caeli · Dec 30, 2022

BobRyan said:
True- but none to replace James.
And no indication that as successive apostles died - the selected new apostles.

Almost all of the Apostles died by the time John wrote Revelation and the Gospel of John -- but no account of replacing them.

So in fact all we have is "Judas" being replaced via Apostolic succession.

This is correct. And we know this to be true because the qualifications that were required for Apostleship, when Judas was replaced, was that the candidate had to be present during Christ's Baptism, and also had to be a follower of Christ throughout His Holy ministry... Which is spoken of in the Scriptures.

But Apostolic Succession is really the appointment of Bishops, who are consecrated by the laying on of hands which originated with the practices of the Apostles, rather than appointing new Apostles, which would be impossible, since they all died off as per the qualifications for being one, they had to have known Jesus personally.

BobRyan · Dec 30, 2022

Landon Caeli said:
This is correct. And we know this to be true because the qualifications that were required for Apostleship, when Judas was replaced, was that the candidate had to be present during Christ's Baptism, and also had to be a follower of Christ throughout His Holy ministry... Which is spoken of in the Scriptures.

So then we agree for true Apostolic "succession" we only have one example --- and that is the case of Judas.

AND even though the death of James is recorded - there is no attempt at all to replace him via that same process.

Landon Caeli said:
But Apostolic Succession is really the appointment of Bishop

So a "succession of Bishops" ? Elders?

Titus 1:5-7
5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you— 6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,

ok then "elder succession" -- who is called the first Elder in the NT? I am pretty sure it is not Peter.
And there is no "succession" of Elders where one Elder succeeds another - rather they are "appointed in every city"

Landon Caeli · Dec 30, 2022

BobRyan said:
So then we agree for true Apostolic "succession" we only have one example --- and that is the case of Judas.

AND even though the death of James is recorded - there is no attempt at all to replace him via that same process.

So a "succession of Bishops" ? Elders?

Titus 1:5-7
5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you— 6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,

ok then "elder succession" -- who is called the first Elder in the NT? I am pretty sure it is not Peter.
And there is no "succession" of Elders where one Elder succeeds another - rather they are "appointed in every city"

Yes, I think they only call it "Apostolic" because the Apostles were the first. But the "Succession" part is clearly encouraged in scripture. We see how they did it, and how rules were layed out for how it was to be accomplished, and it is passed down from generation to generation into the future as *Tradition* - nothing suggests it should stop.

...A new set of ecclesiastical laws are what we see in Titus 1:5-7

Jonaitis · Jan 1, 2023

Landon Caeli said:
From what I understand, the Apostles did select a new Apostle to replace Judas, which can be found in Acts 1:21-26 .

In other texts, such as Timothy 1:6 , Timothy 4:14 , and Timothy 5:22 , we see Apostles being reminded to "lay their hands" on elders, to confirm them as Church leaders.

...So in the Bible, we see the replacement of an Apostle, by the laying on of hands, as well as others who were selected for other leadership roles, by the laying on of hands as well.

If you read Acts 1:21-22, it explicitly says:

"Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us⁠—beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us⁠—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

If there still remains apostolic succession, do they fit these requirements the way Matthias did in replacement of Judas? No.

Your argument in support of it is really a poor one.

Landon Caeli · Jan 2, 2023

Jonaitis said:
If you read Acts 1:21-22, it explicitly says:

If there still remains apostolic succession, do they fit these requirements the way Matthias did in replacement of Judas? No.

Your argument in support of it is really a poor one.

There were only 12 Apostles. Apostolic Succession doesn't actually mean we're making more Apostles, per se, it just means that using the Apostolic Method of selecting Bishops and elders, Succession continues on - and it started with the Apostles.

Jonaitis · Jan 2, 2023

Landon Caeli said:
There were only 12 Apostles. Apostolic Succession doesn't actually mean we're making more Apostles, per se, it just means that using the Apostolic Method of selecting Bishops and elders, Succession continues on - and it started with the Apostles.

You're missing my point.

Only an apostle has the authority given to him by Christ, because they were witnesses of his ministry and resurrection. You can't hand down authority like that. The only authority officers in the church have is to equip and build up.

Landon Caeli · Jan 2, 2023

Jonaitis said:
You're missing my point.

Only an apostle has the authority given to him by Christ, because they were witnesses of his ministry and resurrection. You can't hand down authority like that. The only authority officers in the church have is to equip and build up.

How do we know what authority Bishops in the Church have?

...And where do they get that authority?

Jonaitis · Jan 2, 2023

Landon Caeli said:
How do we know what authority Bishops in the Church have?

Ephesians 4:11-12

Landon Caeli · Jan 2, 2023

Jonaitis said:
Ephesians 4:11-12

It says for the: "5edifying of othe body of Christ"

...To 'edit' the body of Christ, essentially means to *correct* or *modify* the Church. It says so right there.

Landon Caeli · Jan 2, 2023

If God's ability to edit the Church failed through the laying on of hands, then this poses some serious problems. Would the failures extend through the sacraments? Where would they end in such a downward spiral situation.

Jonaitis · Jan 2, 2023

Landon Caeli said:
It says for the: "edifying of the body of Christ"

...To 'edit' the body of Christ, essentially means to make changes to the Church. It says so right there.

Landon Caeli · Jan 2, 2023

Jonaitis said:
View attachment 325949

What did the laying on of hands do to all the elders and Bishops the Apostles confirmed? Was it for something? Or was it something theatrical and meaningless?

...Should the laying on of hands have ended, with the death of the Apostles?

Is Apostolic succession biblical?

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