Is anything <= God?

[erealmz]

Edit: I got my math symbol backwards... I think.

Could there be anything greater than or equal to God?

Could anything exist apart from him?

Could there be a reality outside of God?... That he exists within?

If so, would this reality be considered greater than him since it contains him?

 

[Left]

Could there be anything greater than or equal to God?

Could anything exist apart from him?

Could there be a reality outside of God?... That he exists within?

If so, would this reality be considered greater than him since it contains him?

Oh boy, I'm ready to get owned here:

1. Nothing is greater than the Trinity.

2. Yes. Angels, humans, etc exist apart from Him. His created beings.

3. God and His created reality or realities are separate from Him, but reality is worthless without God.

4. Doesn't make sense to me to measure realities as greater than God.

 

[Winken]

No. Why do you ask?

 

[erealmz]

Oh boy, I'm ready to get owned here:

1. Nothing is greater than the Trinity.

2. Yes. Angels, humans, etc exist apart from Him. His created beings.

3. God and His created reality or realities are separate from Him, but reality is worthless without God.

4. Doesn't make sense to me to measure realities as greater than God.

Thank you. So if there could be a reality outside of God, and he created this reality, then what had to exist before it in order for God to exist? Or did he just exist in a void?

 

[erealmz]

No. Why do you ask?

I ask because if God can not exist inside something greater than himself, then he encompasses all existence and nothing can exist apart from him.

 

[Winken]

Thank you. So if there could be a reality outside of God, and he created this reality, then what had to exist before it in order for God to exist? Or did he just exist in a void?

Why do you ask?

 

[Eryk]

Could there be anything greater than or equal to God?

Could anything exist apart from him?

Could there be a reality outside of God?... That he exists within?

If so, would this reality be considered greater than him since it contains him?

Creation exists apart from God in the sense that God is not the only being that exists.

But the creation could not begin to exist without God, and God sustains the existence of all things. So creation does not exist apart from God in this sense.

So existence is not "larger" than God, as if God is only one being in the set of all things that exist. All things completely depend on God for their existence.

If God is infinite, does that mean that there is no room for other beings to exist? No, because infinity and totality are two different concepts. When we say that God is infinite we mean that He is without limits in His power, wisdom etc. And anyway, God is spirit, so he is not spatially extended.

 

[Left]

Thank you. So if there could be a reality outside of God, and he created this reality, then what had to exist before it in order for God to exist? Or did he just exist in a void?

I see it as in the beginning, before time and angels, there was only God.

Unless we start getting into some really weird Aquinas style beliefs about how the Earth always existed with God, that even you would probably consider nonsensical.

 

[Winken]

I ask because if God can not exist inside something greater than himself, then he encompasses all existence and nothing can exist apart from him.

You advance an "if" statement, then declare your position. Since you don't have the ability to understand scripture, you'll always be in your own trap.

 

[erealmz]

Creation exists apart from God in the sense that God is not the only being that exists.

But the creation could not begin to exist without God, and God sustains the existence of all things. So creation does not exist apart from God in this sense.

So existence is not "larger" than God, as if God is only one being in the set of all things that exist. All things completely depend on God for their existence.

If God is infinite, does that mean that there is no room for other beings to exist? No, because infinity and totality are two different concepts. When we say that God is infinite we mean that He is without limits in His power, wisdom etc. And anyway, God is spirit, so he is not spatially extended.

Now since he is spaceless and timeless, yet encompasses all existence, then there can be no reality outside of such existence. Since that must be the case, then all this is going on inside God's mind. Like a dream or hallucination. God is hallucinating us.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I ask because if God can not exist inside something greater than himself, then he encompasses all existence and nothing can exist apart from him.

Yep. Now you're cook'n!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Now since he is spaceless and timeless, yet encompasses all existence, then there can be no reality outside of such existence. Since that must be the case, then all this is going on inside God's mind. Like a dream or hallucination. God is hallucinating us.

Why can't the appropriate word describing what goes on in the mind of God be 'thought' rather than dream or hallucination?

 

[erealmz]

You advance an "if" statement, then declare your position. Since you don't have the ability to understand scripture, you'll always be in your own trap.

But do not Christians do the same thing with their circular reasoning which they claim comes from their ability to understand scripture? What's the difference?

 

[erealmz]

Why can't the appropriate word describing what goes on in the mind of God be 'thought' rather than dream or hallucination?

Either way, it is still a function of mind and it makes me wonder if God ever felt alone and so created this dream to cope with that loneliness.

 

[Winken]

But do not Christians do the same thing with their circular reasoning which they claim comes from their ability to understand scripture? What's the difference?

Circular reasoning is Biblical. God said it, I believe it, that settles it.

 

[Eryk]

Now since he is spaceless and timeless, yet encompasses all existence, then there can be no reality outside of such existence. Since that must be the case, then all this is going on inside God's mind. Like a dream or hallucination. God is hallucinating us.

I don't claim to know the "rules" of how a trascendent being creates. I argue in the opposite direction: the world we see has a cause, and the causal chain goes back to something uncaused. We can go from the tangible facts of daily life to the awesome wisdom and power of a Creator, with common sense logic.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Either way, it is still a function of mind and it makes me wonder if God ever felt alone and so created this dream to cope with that loneliness.

That's a good question, but I think the answer is 'no.' I think we have to see God as a self-sufficient being, never bored,never alone, never prone to fear. But, even though He has no weakness as He exists in eternity, this doesn't mean that He won't recognize that creating a material universe with little beings in it is a good thing. Maybe? What do you think, erealmz?

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[erealmz]

Circular reasoning is Biblical. God said it, I believe it, that settles it.

Scientific reasoning is logical. We propose an "if" statement. Test the hypothesis. Form a conclusion. Remain in our "trap".

 

[erealmz]

That's a good question, but I think the answer is 'no.' I think we have to see God as a self-sufficient being, never bored,never alone, never prone to fear. But, even though He has no weakness as He exists in eternity, this doesn't mean that He won't recognize that creating a material universe with little beings in it is a good thing. Maybe? What do you think, erealmz?

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Is that assuming "good" is objective? And for God to recognize it rather than create it means that it must outside him?

If he can not experience such emotions as were mentioned, then how can he recognize them?

 

[Winken]

Either way, it is still a function of mind and it makes me wonder if God ever felt alone and so created this dream to cope with that loneliness.

God is Spirit (not "a" spirit). No "mind" functioning is involved. You wonder if God ever felt alone. Therein you identify God as the subject of your belief system. (Capital G).