Is anyone else watching the Strange Fire conference with John MacArthur?

HisSparkPlug said:

lol @ SimontheZealot

Jesus Culture- Your Love Never Fails - YouTube

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I just don't understand how someone can look at all these young people loving on Jesus and think its demonic.... we have a lost generation, they've been sexualized since toddlers, taught in schools all about sex, way before they could form an opinion, their hormones are raging. Partly bc of all the hormones in our foods, sexualized ads on TV or in every dept. store or by their neighbors walking around half naked. Pre-pubescent children now get taught that homosexuality is just one choice of many and then when someone comes along and tries to set their faces toward Jesus - they get demonized...
J.Culture is not my thing, I still like 'This is the day' and love Kairi Jobe... just found Kim Walker - like her too. But not so much Culture. I don't care for hip-hop either. I think rap has its roots in the demonic too but if you want to pull kids out of their drug induced life style - let them get high on the Holy Ghost... toking the Holy Ghost seems a bit disturbing, but I have to give that to the Lord... He is the one that reads hearts.
The fact is the young people are becoming atheists by the droves bc we teach them in school that the bible is a lie and God didn't make the heavens and the earth. They go to college and professors laugh at believers.... very few come back with their faith in tact... so Jesus Culture reaches them where they are at.... its the fringe but most of these kids have had enough of the cold dead churchie people and their hypocrisies. There is very little power and grace taught...
IN her 20's my daughter started having doubts and I reminded her - that she had experienced the Lord, not just heard about Him and nothing could remove that from her. A few weeks later she recommitted her life to Christ and has walked with Him since. For someone to say she worships another God, bc she is charismatic...... this woman prays before she goes to the store... her first answer to any problem I have is "Mom have you prayed about it"... errrr sometimes its so annoying... I love it...LOL
She waits on the Lord before she does anything, a job, her husband, they committed to chastity and they were both in their 30's when they married. She believes God for all her needs and He has provided.... I just don't understand this man's thinking --J.M.'s. How or what benefit to the body of Christ is this kind of teaching... so sad
God bless, I know I'm preaching to the choir when I'm posting to you but I need to vent.... God bless, andrea

Tzaousios said:

Seriously, do you really want to equivocate between The Song of Solomon, a canonical book of the Bible which the Church has handed down through the ages, with contemporary worship songs?

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Do you really want to twist what I said - that is so disturbing. When you express your opinion about something should I come back at you and ask if you think that is equivalent to scripture??? Seriously...

Tzaousios said:

Seriously, do you really want to equivocate between The Song of Solomon, a canonical book of the Bible which the Church has handed down through the ages, with contemporary worship songs?

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LOL, she equated, not "equivocated".
And doesn't everyone compare themselves with & try to emulate Jesus?
Switch to decafe. Tza.


e·quiv·o·cate
iˈkwivəˌkāt/
verb
verb: equivocate; 3rd person present: equivocates; past tense: equivocated; past participle: equivocated; gerund or present participle: equivocating

1. 1.
   use ambiguous language so as to conceal the truth or avoid committing oneself.
   
   
   
   

Andrea411 said:

Do you really want to twist what I said - that is so disturbing. When you express your opinion about something should I come back at you and ask if you think that is equivalent to scripture??? Seriously...

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You are welcome to say what you think. There was no twisting on my part. If you did not equivocate, were you still equating the two? Please explain.

Rick Otto said:

LOL, she equated, not "equivocated".
And doesn't everyone compare themselves with & try to emulate Jesus?

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Nah, I will stick with "equivocate" until she explains exactly what she meant.

Tzaousios said:

You are welcome to say what you think. There was no twisting on my part. If you did not equivocate, were you still equating the two? Please explain.



Nah, I will stick with "equivocate" until she explains exactly what she meant.

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People here are accusing Jesus Culture and or Kim Walker of using sexual undertones in some of their songs... I didn't hear that when I listened to the music but my point was using sexual language does not mean the song is not biblical ie: Song of Solomon. I didn't find the words lusting after Jesus offensive since lust is not necessarily sexual but deeply desirous. People lust after many things. I find wretched far more offensive then anything I've seen from J.Culture.... but again, I'm not a fan so I don't know all they put out. I do appreciate the fact that they captivate the young and bring their minds to Jesus. I did not think they were evangelists but entertainers, given the choices, I'd think Christians would prefer them to secular music

I don't appreciate when people twist my words or intent, it is at the very least dishonest and at best unkind.


Since you need it explained here's a little more detail...... and yes that was snarky. Enjoy. Good night, andrea
noun
1.
very strong sexual desire.
"he knew that his lust for her had returned"
synonyms: sexual desire, sexual appetite, sexual longing, ardor, desire, passion; More
a passionate desire for something.
"a lust for power"
synonyms: greed, desire, craving, covetousness, eagerness, avidity, cupidity, longing, yearning, hunger, thirst, appetite, hankering More
antonyms: aversion
THEOLOGY
a sensual appetite regarded as sinful.
plural noun: lusts
"lusts of the flesh"
verb
verb: lust; 3rd person present: lusts; past tense: lusted; past participle: lusted; gerund or present participle: lusting
1.
have a very strong sexual desire for someone.
"he really lusted after me in those days"
synonyms: desire, be consumed with desire for, find sexually attractive, crave, covet, ache for, burn for; More

Andrea411 said:

Since you need it explained here's a little more detail...... and yes that was snarky. Enjoy. Good night, andrea

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I was not snarky in my reply to you; it was an honest question. Why did you feel the need to be snarky to me? Also, what would have been the proper response to what you posted, in your estimation?

Neither Jesus Culture nor Kim Walker's songs to the Lord have any sort of "sexual" theme to them in any way shape or form.

Those who think there is, are either over-sexed pervs, or plain old tone deaf and hearing something other than what is really there.

But what I think is REALLY going on, is that those who criticize Walker's worship tunes are the same people who dislike Bill Johnson & his church (Bethel) and since Kim is a worship leader there, they have to try to find some way to slam her too.

So... will the real slim Shady please stand up?

digabeatle said:

Hey all the John MacArthur sermon from sunday has been posted on the Gty.org website but I still cant post links :/ if someone wants to put it up and maybe our 'continuationist friends ' on this thread will give it a listen? no harm in listening if you are in the truth so why not actually understand why cessationists are so concerned ?

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I don't listen to those who deny the Scriptures and teach things contrary to it, while claiming to be authority from God. I would no more listen to MacArthur than a Mormon, a Jehovah Witness, or a UPC'er.

I dont do that, alot of folks do though. If someone is affliated with a ministry the song becomes a demonic force or something. Heck, I dont agree with 50% (or probably more) of the ministries some of my song choices come from. If I like the song, I like the song. Sometimes I just like the tune, other times the words, sometimes I prefer no words, depends. I like some contemporary, some chants, some instrumentals, some soaking, varries.

I would hate to be so bound up that I need a backround check on each singer before giving my approval to their melodys

I have songs I love too, where I just wont sing a certain line (it will bug me) I just skip over it, no biggy, but I still like either the rest of the song or just the backround, depends.

Tzaousios said:

Seriously, do you really want to equivocate between The Song of Solomon, a canonical book of the Bible which the Church has handed down through the ages, with contemporary worship songs?

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Tzaousios said:

I was not snarky in my reply to you; it was an honest question. Why did you feel the need to be snarky to me? Also, what would have been the proper response to what you posted, in your estimation?

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We were discussing 'the accusation' about J.Culture using sexual undertones' (which I don't agree they did in the examples given) BUT... that the bible has sexuality within it and I'm assuming that may be what gave them license to do it ... in other words it would not necessarily be unbiblical as Wretched had accused them.

Your response that my saying that was equivocating (but you had to mean making it equivalent) to canonical scripture was well over stating what I said. That was twisting and that was what I found disturbing - it happens so often on these Christian ?? boards. I am often dismayed bc I do not leave my Christianity and therefore, kindness toward those I consider brethren when I post even anonymously. I take very seriously scripture - out of the mouth the heart speaks.
I apologize if that was not the case . As far as being 'snarky' that is just light sarcasm... I'm from NJ I can't help it - (the entire N.E. wouldn't know how to communicate without sarcasm) LOL. I did not think you really needed a full definition on the word lust. You seem to have an intelligent grasp of the English language.

God bless, andrea

digabeatle said:

Hey all the John MacArthur sermon from sunday has been posted on the Gty.org website but I still cant post links :/ if someone wants to put it up and maybe our 'continuationist friends ' on this thread will give it a listen? no harm in listening if you are in the truth so why not actually understand why cessationists are so concerned ?

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I would not listen, I have listened at length to the cessationist argument as I grew in the Lord and in Charisma. I have already seen clips from him and they are more then disturbing. Stating that charismatics are no more Christian then Mormons. I'm shaking my head wondering what Africans, Asians, and Christians in the middle of real persecution are thinking about us.
If you've spoken to missionaries who spent time in Africa you'll know that what we see as extreme are often real manifestations of demonic deliverance. The shaking, falling, out and screaming... J.M. didn't make it clear that there was ANY difference between Todd Bentley's actions and Jack Hayford's. I would ask my charismatic friends to not give this man any more time or press then he has already and shun all his teachings... I believe he has a genuine problem, spiritually and personally. His lack of judgment there was astounding.
I don't believe most of the manifestations we see here are demonic but J.M. didn't define what he even considered 'charismatic' something that disturbed even the non-charismatic attendees.
The attitude from Charismatic leaders so far is pray for him and do not get into a feud. I believe this is the correct response. They have acknowledged him as a teacher and theologian with integrity. I believe that is a loving and intelligent response. I would have loved to have seen a real conference with Jack Hayford, Gordon Fee and others.... but for me to refute J.M. would be like when the professors in college rebuke people for believing that God created the universe. You know what you know but you can't always argue your case. My husband, said after listening to J.M. that he sounds just like a good lawyer, if your good enough you can make it look like if "the glove don't fit you must acquit".

Fireinfolding said:

I dont do that, alot of folks do though. If someone is affliated with a ministry the song becomes a demonic force or something. Heck, I dont agree with 50% (or probably more) of the ministries some of my song choices come from. If I like the song, I like the song. Sometimes I just like the tune, other times the words, sometimes I prefer no words, depends. I like some contemporary, some chants, some instrumentals, some soaking, varries.

I would hate to be so bound up that I need a backround check on each singer before giving my approval to their melodys

I have songs I love too, where I just wont sing a certain line (it will bug me) I just skip over it, no biggy, but I still like either the rest of the song or just the backround, depends.

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I am very picky about the music I listen to bc it is often my worship. I see praise and worship as our offering to the Lord, especially when your unable to attend a church service.... its not unusual for me to be in the middle of cleaning the house and fall on my knees worshipping. I don't listen to anything but Christian music although my husband turns on country music occasionally. I like to fill my house with praise... so the words must be in a sense my words, or those that match my heart. Its been hard to find real good CDs where the entire CD is good. I've been gathering music on itunes to make my own CD but I'm computer challenged..LOL
When I have prayer groups here - once a week we play a CD and worship along... it can make for an wonderful and spiritually lifting service...
I like Chris Tomlin and many contemporary artists songs but I really want the heartfelt worship songs. Kim Walker has the heart... I will look into more of her music
God bless, andrea

I dont get offended when someone dont like a song I like, it dont bug me, afterall I dont like alot of other folks songs either.

I just often dont say, I overpass saying anything because folks get all defensive about their music.

HisSparkPlug said:

Find me ONE person in the bible whom Jesus refused to heal. Go on... dig out your bible and find one.

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LOL, right...How about the apostle PAUL.
The thorn.
WOW!

simonthezealot said:

LOL, right...How about the apostle PAUL.
The thorn.
WOW!

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The thorn in Paul's side was a messenger of Satan, as identified in the scripture and sent to torment Paul.

Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn [splinter] in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself!
Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.”
Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.
Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).

HisSparkPlug said:

Find me ONE person in the bible whom Jesus refused to heal. Go on... dig out your bible and find one.

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Oh oh how bout Lazarus..

Dusky Mouse said:

The thorn in Paul's side was a messenger of Satan, as identified in the scripture and sent to torment Paul.

Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn [splinter] in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself!
Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.”
Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.
Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).

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Right! and the Lord did not heal Paul because in Paul's weakness His power was perfected in him.