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I still find this comparison pretty inane. Shooting someone with a gun is not really much like choosing to have an abortion. Other born humans that one might shoot are not feeding off of one's body, after all. Pregnancy is the only case where one human is housed inside the body of another human. As such, it is a very singular situation when it comes to the rights involved.But ones right to do as they wish with their own body is often limited. My right to move my hand to a certain position and then 'pull' my finger inwards is limited if it happens to be that my hand is holding a gun and that position leaves it pointing at someone I can't legally kill (aka, no self defense of such).
Legally, of course, unborn humans have no rights. But ethically, I don't know. The issue is, as you stated, do any rights unborn humans have to control their own bodies (without, of course, the cognitive ability to willing do so) give them any right in regards to the body they are currently housed in and feeding off of?My right to MY body has been trampled upon, because of their right to their body. The first question which needs to be asked is if an unborn *insert favorite word here* has any right to their body. If no, then no problem. If yes, then the next question would be if it supersedes another's right to their body or not. This next question can only be logically worked out when we figure out the exact order of importance of these rights to the body we have.
I disagree. Consenting to sex can be considered as consenting to the possibility of pregnancy (though hopefully a slim chance, as anyone not looking to get pregnant really should use a condom or other contraceptive method if they choose to have sex), since there is always a risk of getting pregnant. But, I don't feel that it is the same as consenting to carry any pregnancy created to term. In my opinion, a woman or couple has the right to choose what to do with an unexpected pregnancy after it happens, if she/they are going to keep the pregnancy or terminate it.Answer yes or no. Did the woman consent to sex? If so, then, she consented to all the inherant risks including pregnancy. Stop making this the fetus' responsibility when it is the parent's responsibility to care for that child.
And yet, couldn't a person who would propose to force couples to keep pregnancies they don't want, and would choose to abort, be said to be "playing God" with their lives? "Playing God" by trying to force others to act as they wish?Don't play God.
Lisa,
I think for rational debate, it will be best all round to leave God, the Bible, and Jesus out of this. Many people don't believe in God, so if you want to convince an atheist such as myself why abortion is bad, speaking about God isn't going the right way about it. Say I believed in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and I told you that it says abortion is good, you'd likely dismiss my claims. Well I feel the same when you mention God. Besides which, look how cute that lamb is!!
So you are saying that the only reason you are Pro-Life is because you are Christian, and all you have is your religious beliefs to back up any Pro-Life argument you make? Perhaps you might prefer debating this topic in a section of this forum that doesn't allow non-Christians (or people who aren't the right "kinds" of Christians), since your arguments really don't help you to reach anyone who doesn't share your religious beliefs?Remove God from the equation and you will get exactly what we have, a culture of death.
Before I was a Christian, I was Pro-Choice. I didn't like abortion, but I thought it was a necessary evil. I no longer feel that way and I am convinced that it is truly the most evil thing that this planet has ever conceived.
Speak for yourself, I exist just fine without God.
So you are saying that the only reason you are Pro-Life is because you are Christian, and all you have is your religious beliefs to back up any Pro-Life argument you make? Perhaps you might prefer debating this topic in a section of this forum that doesn't allow non-Christians (or people who aren't the right "kinds" of Christians), since your arguments really don't help you to reach anyone who doesn't share your religious beliefs?
I actually a bit of a parable to explain why I feel that religious beliefs are very bad thing to use to back up one's arguments in a debate. Don't get me wrong, religious beliefs certainly can be very good reasons to believe a certain way about a matter, but they do nothing to convince others to do the same, unless those others share one's religion:
Imagine that I belonged to a religion that believed all frogs were evil and wanted to eat your soul. Were I to try to convince people of this belief, I couldn't just say "my religion thinks frogs are evil" because they wouldn't share my religion and wouldn't accept that as a good reason to do so. Rather, I would have to point to facts as to why I, and my religion, believed that frogs were evil. Because, to convince other people of the horrible dangers of frogs, I would need information that doesn't come from the teachings of my religion, since they didn't believe in those teachings.
Understand?
Whatever.When a person truly finds GOD, that person begins a process which brings him closer and closer to GOD's understanding of reality. In other words, that person is being conformed to the image of CHRIST. Pagans believe that as long as one follows religious guidlines one is of that religion. Religion mandates a person follow set rules. The Christian begins to actually see things from GOD perspective and does things out of desire and not fear.
Lisa,
I think for rational debate, it will be best all round to leave God, the Bible, and Jesus out of this. Many people don't believe in God, so if you want to convince an atheist such as myself why abortion is bad, speaking about God isn't going the right way about it. Say I believed in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and I told you that it says abortion is good, you'd likely dismiss my claims. Well I feel the same when you mention God. Besides which, look how cute that lamb is!!
When a person truly finds GOD, that person begins a process which brings him closer and closer to GOD's understanding of reality. In other words, that person is being conformed to the image of CHRIST. Pagans believe that as long as one follows religious guidlines one is of that religion. Religion mandates a person follow set rules. The Christian begins to actually see things from GOD perspective and does things out of desire and not fear.
Exactly what, if anything, does this diatribe have to do with the discussion at hand?
So, even if you do not believe in God, why do we have the right to determine who lives or dies?
All right.
I don't believe in rights. That's my answer.
Okay, then, why should you be deciding the rights of others if you do not believe in them?
Lisa
I believe neither that people have a "right" to decide who lives or dies, nor that anything has a "right" to life.
I make moral judgements based on my sympathies. That's why I ask you, why is it bad to die, from the point of view of a first trimester foetus? That's my only measure of whether or not I want abortions to happen. I have to weigh up the suffering of the foetus against the suffering of the woman carrying an unwanted pregnancy. As far as I can see, the woman's potential for suffering from the outcome of this decision is the higher, so I am inclined to hand the decision to her.
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