Is abortion better than the alternative?

Lokisdottir · Mar 12, 2005

Antoninus Verus said:
A quadrapuligic(sp) is a human being in all respects but I hope your not suggesting that an unborn baby can feel EMOTIONAL pain.

No, of course not.

Antoninus Verus · Mar 12, 2005

Lokisdottir said:
No, of course not.

Ok, just checking

xhristlives · Mar 12, 2005

i think the problem is differentiating between christian and secular views
christianity calls us as christians not to accept murder such as abortion, but rather alteratives, because surely in extreme cases the ideas of forgiveness(like in rape), or giving people a chance(disabilities) must be obliged.
in christ we are made whole, he makes us calm and in this way we can believe that God has a purpose for everyone born. should jesus have been aborted because he was not conceived in marriage?

Lokisdottir · Mar 12, 2005

xhristlives said:
christianity calls us as christians not to accept murder such as abortion, but rather alteratives, because surely in extreme cases the ideas of forgiveness(like in rape), or giving people a chance(disabilities) must be obliged.

Sorry, but I don't believe in forgiveness for that sort of thing. If I was raped, I'd want the guy hunted down and castrated, and his offspring wouldn't make it out of my body alive.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in punishing a child for its parent's crimes, but I would not make any sacrifices for it -- i.e. carrying it for 9 months, followed by the agony of labor.

But... that's just me.

morningstar2651 · Mar 12, 2005

If a Christian woman refuses to get an abortion after being raped, she is free to choose not to.

If a non-Christian woman decides to get an abortion after being raped, she is free to make that choice.

Have you such little faith in your peers that you must ban abortion?

It's not against the law for a woman to be topless here, but women don't run around town half-naked because they don't want to.

SaintGeorge · Mar 12, 2005

Is abortion better than the alternative? I think the real question should be, is death better than life? Only a lunatic would argue that it is. So, I ask you all, is it? Is murder preferable to birth? Is pain preferable to comfort? Is sorrow preferable to joy? Is sin preferable to righteousness?

On the day to end all days, imagine the throne of God. Christ sits upon it in all His Splended Glory, the nations are before Him. Surrounding Him are piles of millions of aborted fetuses, the stench of their decaying flesh rising to the sky. They writh in agony, blood seeping from their crushed skulls, their necks limp, their organs spewing forth from their abdomens. A sea of pink ooze covers the ground. It is their vital fluids. They scream out, "Lord, how much longer until we are avenged!?" Jesus rises from His thrown, intensely staring at the nations before Him. In a voice like thunder, he says, "I told you to let the little children come to me, and you have not even let them come forth from the womb, may you be accursed, foul brood of vipers! Only the Lord decides who lives and dies." Who shall stand against His wrath on that day? Who can argue with Almighty God? Not I, not I.

Life must be preserved and promoted. Those who support death are not of the Lord, but of a deluded and decaying society, convulsing in its struggle with death. Soon it will be no more, and those who consider themselves a part of it will be forever lost. Pray for their wretched souls, for God's anger against them shall not cease until they repent of their pointless holocausts of unborn babies. Life awaits those who champion life. Death awaits those who champion death. Amen.

indra_fanatic · Mar 12, 2005

Lokisdottir said:
Sorry, but I don't believe in forgiveness for that sort of thing. If I was raped, I'd want the guy hunted down and castrated, and his offspring wouldn't make it out of my body alive.

Lokis, as I can see here, this comment does not refer to you, but on the subject of rape, earlier I mentioned how the most committed pro-choicers also tend to lean to the left on crime (no death penalty, no life imprisonment, etc). I noticed that no one addressed this. Anyone want to make some comments on why this is?

Antoninus Verus · Mar 12, 2005

Is abortion better than the alternative? I think the real question should be, is death better than life? Only a lunatic would argue that it is. So, I ask you all, is it? Is murder preferable to birth? Is pain preferable to comfort? Is sorrow preferable to joy? Is sin preferable to righteousness?

Actually the real question was "Is permitting abortion better than banning it because of the potential ramifications of banning it?" And ask someone who is laying in a hospital dying of cancer, watching the clock knowing that he wont live to see the hands turn around one more time, laying there in pain, if death is better than life. Ask someone who is a vegetable or has irrepairable dammage done to their body.

Lokis, as I can see here, this comment does not refer to you, but on the subject of rape, earlier I mentioned how the most committed pro-choicers also tend to lean to the left on crime (no death penalty, no life imprisonment, etc). I noticed that no one addressed this. Anyone want to make some comments on why this is?

I dont know, I know I sure as hell dont lean that way. Death, in my opinion is far too good for a rapist. Death is a second of discomfort, and poof, thats it. Rape is months or years of hellish torture. Rape is something that can absolutely shatter a person, and being emotionally and mentally broken is FAR worse than death. Even in death's most protracted forms, it still will end eventually. But rape lasts your entire life, that fear is always there, that sense of violation.

Personally Im in favor of physically torturing rapists, it would be NOTHING compared to what they put thier victim(s) through. Rapists dont suffer enough in my view.

SaintGeorge · Mar 12, 2005

Ask someone who is a vegetable or has irrepairable dammage done to their body.

You just did, and I gave you my opinion.

gallykid08 · Mar 12, 2005

Lokisdottir said:
Sorry, but I don't believe in forgiveness for that sort of thing. If I was raped, I'd want the guy hunted down and castrated, and his offspring wouldn't make it out of my body alive.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in punishing a child for its parent's crimes, but I would not make any sacrifices for it -- i.e. carrying it for 9 months, followed by the agony of labor.

But... that's just me.

that offspring would be your offspring too. like it or not.

and you would murder a child for what his ''father'' did?

rape is horrible..and people shouldnt add to the crime

and about adding to the pain...

woman who have had an abortion have been shown to develop mental problems and are more likely to commit suicide or attempt to, as well as be sent to mental hospitals, etc.

no matter the circumstances of a pregnancy...when a woman has a baby inside of her it creates a bond...and if that bond is broken...it can have some severe consequences

woman who have had an abortion have been shown to have effects similiar to mothers who have had miscarriages...except worse. because the baby didnt have to die.

SaintGeorge · Mar 12, 2005

Life is better than death, no exceptions. If you disagree, then perhaps you have never lived, or are already dead...

Antoninus Verus · Mar 12, 2005

Esran said:
Life is better than death, no exceptions. If you disagree, then perhaps you have never lived, or are already dead...

Well I disagree with you. Life is better than death in most, but not all, cases.

gallykid08 · Mar 12, 2005

Antoninus Verus said:
Well I disagree with you. Life is better than death in most, but not all, cases.

when is it not? and when/how/why should we choose who to let live? who gave us that right?

something i've asked many times...anybody got an answer?

SaintGeorge · Mar 12, 2005

Nobody gave us the right to choose whether someone lives or dies. Only tyrants are psychotic enough to even dare claim this right, and even then only when it serves to elevate their power. Sorry Antoninus Verus, you're wrong.

Antoninus Verus · Mar 12, 2005

[quotewhen is it not?[/quote] When your quality of life drops below the acceptible point. If Im laying in a hospital dying of cancer and I KNOW Im not walking out of there and all Im doing is wasting time and money, pull my plug. Its not natural to extend someone's life beyond where they start to suffer.

and when/how/why should we choose who to let live?

It depends on what your talking about

who gave us that right?

We did. We got that right when we were born. We have the right to end our own lives, we have the right to end the lives of others if continuing that life may be too much for them or if they request it.

Nobody gave us the right to choose whether someone lives or dies. Only tyrants are psychotic enough to even dare claim this right, and even then only when it serves to elevate their power. Sorry Antoninus Verus, you're wrong.

Frak this, you dont listen to a word Im saying. Our discussion is over.

Chloe Williams · Mar 12, 2005

Antoninus Verus said:
Its not natural to extend someone's life beyond where they start to suffer.

No, what is not natural is people trying to take God's job of deciding who lives and dies, and when they die.

We did. We got that right when we were born. We have the right to end our own lives, we have the right to end the lives of others if continuing that life may be too much for them or if they request it.

We don't have the right to kill someone just because we were born! What you do with your own life is your buisiness (and by that I mean, destroying your own life if you wish, not what you do with your baby's life), but you have NO RIGHT to destroy someone else's life.

*~*Chloe Williams*~*

Antoninus Verus · Mar 12, 2005

We don't have the right to kill someone just because we were born! What you do with your own life is your buisiness (and by that I mean, destroying your own life if you wish, not what you do with your baby's life), but you have NO RIGHT to destroy someone else's life.

Even if that life may destroy or ruin annother person's life?

No, what is not natural is people trying to take God's job of deciding who lives and dies, and when they die.

Well then we must agree to disagree on this because I dont believe God has the final say in what happens to me

ASLER86 · Mar 12, 2005

Antoninus Verus said:
Even if that life may destroy or ruin annother person's life?

So then it is one persons life for another?

Did you check out my other post with the links? You should check those out.

Back to rape, rape is horrible and it is one of the most heinous of crimes. I know someone who was raped, she came to my school recently and spoke. She was raped while in Indonesia, and she became pregnant.

Was she heartbroken and horrified? Yes. Did she wonder why it had to happen? Yes. Did she wonder why she became pregnant as a result? Yes.
But she decided to carry that baby to term, and instead of adoption she chose to keep him. He is now a beautiful half-Indonesian four year old boy.

It is not worth an innocent's life for another. I don't want to accuse anyone for making a decision, but nine months to give that child a lifetime? You don't think that's worth it?
The child can be adopted to loving parents who will love and value that child, and that child may never even know s/he was the product of rape....

If I was raped I'd carry the baby to term, why? Two wrongs don't make a right and I couldn't go through the pain of being attacked and then having to live with the fact that I had to kill a baby. Yes, being pregnant and giving labor will be painful, but isn't that a sacrifice that most mothers make?

That child shouldn't be held responsible for the crimes of his/her father.

gallykid08 · Mar 12, 2005

the point is that unborn children cant say ''kill me i dont want to be born''. and i dont think we have the right to say ''that child is a rape-child. kill it'' or ''that child is going to have cerebral palsy, kill it''

many people with disabilities lead full and complete lives. and they wld rather be alive then dead.

ASLER86 · Mar 12, 2005

gallykid08 said:
the point is that unborn children cant say ''kill me i dont want to be born''. and i dont think we have the right to say ''that child is a rape-child. kill it'' or ''that child is going to have cerebral palsy, kill it''

many people with disabilities lead full and complete lives. and they wld rather be alive then dead.

Of course not, people with disabilities live happy lives. (I know some)
Down's syndrome kids are the sweetest kids in the world.
Mentally disabled kids are sweet and charming (although they can be quite a trip)
etc.

Exodus 4:11 " The Lord said to him [Moses], who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the Lord?

Is abortion better than the alternative?

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