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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Is 1 Timothy 2:11-12 Moral?
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<blockquote data-quote="cvanwey" data-source="post: 72686697" data-attributes="member: 409550"><p><span style="color: #0000ff">With all due respect, I looked at the link, and thank you for your time thus far. However, I must admit, providing this link appears about as bias towards Christianity, as me sending you a link from evilbible.com... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"></span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff">I noticed a lot of the same prophecies get used over and over again. I've already spoken to a few pastors about them, and when one reads the verses in context, says very little, in comparison to the claims. The 'prophecy' regarding a '1948 Israel', aligned very poorly between reality and the verses. Ezekiel 36-39 (which mentions open graves, horseback, ancient weapons, etc., all not relevant to 1948 and Israel, or ever; especially when pertaining to open graves). If Israel would have formed a few hundred years prior, at least the transportation and weapons part would fairly match....</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"></span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff">And when you state "float to the top", are you stating that God knew humans would eventually adapt later down the road, but God did not care to assure 'objective' morality from the jump? The words are there to translate, 'forever'. If God was aware that human morality would change in time, but write an explicit rule for women not to teach, what are humans to do? This is what I see. Christians rationalize it, to make it align with their reality, verses reconcile that we are either now breaking God's moral objective and never changing law, or, that God somehow knew we would invent our own alternate morals later, which is 'okay' by Him.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"></span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff">Again, it seems that if the God states that the 'word' is the chosen method, and the 'word' is forever, and the 'word' is all God breathed, then such verses appear to conflict with reality. <u>Meaning, I would very much assume that women, being denied a 'teaching' role, due to merely having a vagina, would much more fall in line with something a human thought was 'correct' 2000 years ago, verse an omnibenevolent entity.</u> This is me being intellectually honest.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"></span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff">For anyone to rationalize such a verse, almost seems to reconcile that 'whatever God states, is moral, because God says so.' If this is the case, why study scripture? Just follow orders and don't ask no questions. Whatever God says is right. Which means, we are to be 'amoral' agents. Which, by all accounts, means we might be practicing 'immorality.' However, even if one is to do that, translation still gets in the way, as evident by the many conflicting denominational churches I drive by on a daily basis.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"></span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff">The Bible is all we have. If God did not care to preserve it, in a universal way, then it really appears to present the same level of 'truth' as any other claimed divine book. They are all written by humans, by default, with not external divine source.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="cvanwey, post: 72686697, member: 409550"] [COLOR=#0000ff]With all due respect, I looked at the link, and thank you for your time thus far. However, I must admit, providing this link appears about as bias towards Christianity, as me sending you a link from evilbible.com... :-) I noticed a lot of the same prophecies get used over and over again. I've already spoken to a few pastors about them, and when one reads the verses in context, says very little, in comparison to the claims. The 'prophecy' regarding a '1948 Israel', aligned very poorly between reality and the verses. Ezekiel 36-39 (which mentions open graves, horseback, ancient weapons, etc., all not relevant to 1948 and Israel, or ever; especially when pertaining to open graves). If Israel would have formed a few hundred years prior, at least the transportation and weapons part would fairly match.... And when you state "float to the top", are you stating that God knew humans would eventually adapt later down the road, but God did not care to assure 'objective' morality from the jump? The words are there to translate, 'forever'. If God was aware that human morality would change in time, but write an explicit rule for women not to teach, what are humans to do? This is what I see. Christians rationalize it, to make it align with their reality, verses reconcile that we are either now breaking God's moral objective and never changing law, or, that God somehow knew we would invent our own alternate morals later, which is 'okay' by Him. Again, it seems that if the God states that the 'word' is the chosen method, and the 'word' is forever, and the 'word' is all God breathed, then such verses appear to conflict with reality. [U]Meaning, I would very much assume that women, being denied a 'teaching' role, due to merely having a vagina, would much more fall in line with something a human thought was 'correct' 2000 years ago, verse an omnibenevolent entity.[/U] This is me being intellectually honest. For anyone to rationalize such a verse, almost seems to reconcile that 'whatever God states, is moral, because God says so.' If this is the case, why study scripture? Just follow orders and don't ask no questions. Whatever God says is right. Which means, we are to be 'amoral' agents. Which, by all accounts, means we might be practicing 'immorality.' However, even if one is to do that, translation still gets in the way, as evident by the many conflicting denominational churches I drive by on a daily basis. The Bible is all we have. If God did not care to preserve it, in a universal way, then it really appears to present the same level of 'truth' as any other claimed divine book. They are all written by humans, by default, with not external divine source.[/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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