Iraq....whats your take on this???

GreenEyedLady · Sep 13, 2004

I recieved this email today. What do you think about it??????

IRAQ - VERY INTERESTING - DID YOU KNOW?

1. The garden of Eden was in Iraq.

2. Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq, was the cradle of civilization!

3. Noah built the ark in Iraq.

4. The Tower of Babel was in Iraq.

5. Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern Iraq!

6 Isaac's wife Rebekah is from Nahor, which is in Iraq.

7. Jacob met Rachel in Iraq.

8. Jonah preached in Nineveh - which is in Iraq.

9. Assyria, which is in Iraq, conquered the ten tribes of Israel.

10. Amos cried out in Iraq!

11. Babylon, which is in Iraq, destroyed Jerusalem.

12. Daniel was in the lion's den in Iraq!

13. The three Hebrew children were in the fire in Iraq (Jesus had been in Iraq also as the fourth person in the fiery furnace!)

14. Belshazzar, the King of Babylon saw the "writing on the wall" in Iraq.

15. Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, carried the Jews captive into Iraq.

16. Ezekiel preached in Iraq.

17. The wise men were from Iraq.

18. Peter preached in Iraq.

19. The "Empire of Man" described in Revelation is called Babylon, which was a city in Iraq!

And you have probably seen this one. Israel is the nation most often mentioned in the Bible. But do you know which nation is second? It is Iraq! However, that is not the name that is used in the Bible. The names used in the Bible are Babylon, Land of Shinar, and Mesopotamia. The word Mesopotamia means between the two rivers, more exactly between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. The name Iraq means country with deep roots.

Indeed Iraq is a country with deep roots and is a very significant country in the Bible.

No other nation, except Israel, has more history and prophecy associated it than Iraq.

And also... This is something to think about! Since America is typically represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim passages...

The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)

Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

(Note the verse number!) Hmmmmmmm?! God Bless you all Amen !

d0c markus · Sep 13, 2004

GreenEyedLady said:
Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

(Note the verse number!) Hmmmmmmm?! God Bless you all Amen !

Most interesting. do you feel this prophecy in the Koran has been fulfilled and does that impact your faith?

TwinCrier · Sep 14, 2004

Actually, the Koran verse is false, but the rest of the info is true. Very interesting to read though. All those bible places have been renamed to it's cool to see what is happening there now.

Gold Dragon · Sep 14, 2004

TwinCrier said:
Actually, the Koran verse is false, but the rest of the info is true. Very interesting to read though. All those bible places have been renamed to it's cool to see what is happening there now.

Agreed. Snopes

Iraq is pivotal to biblical archeology and I hope progresses in this area would be one of the key benefits of toppling Sadaam.

ZiSunka · Sep 14, 2004

The part about the Koran is bogus. That verse really talks about islamic evangelism, NOT about eagles rising up, but it is reputed to be a key verse that was referenced often in the hijackers' diaries and things.

"But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know."

The attacks were about forcing America to accept Allah as the one true God. The Koran says they are to force conversions by violence if necessary, because Allah's true will can't be done until every human on earth has submitted (the meaning of the word "islam") to him.

Glorified · Sep 14, 2004

lambslove said:
The attacks were about forcing America to accept Allah as the one true God. The Koran says they are to force conversions by violence if necessary, because Allah's true will can't be done until every human on earth has submitted (the meaning of the word "islam") to him.

Man that's scary.

ZiSunka · Sep 14, 2004

Glorified said:
Man that's scary.

That's history. Look at Islamic history and you'll see a long series of invasions and forced conversions throughout Asia, southern Europe and northern Africa.

Gold Dragon · Sep 14, 2004

lambslove said:
That's history. Look at Islamic history and you'll see a long series of invasions and forced conversions throughout Asia, southern Europe and northern Africa.

History also tells us that some Christians have also used the bible to justify similar activities in the form of inquisitions, crusades, execution of heretics, Protestant/Catholic wars, etc.

ZiSunka · Sep 14, 2004

Gold Dragon said:
History also tells us that some Christians have also used the bible to justify similar activities in the form of inquisitions, crusades, execution of heretics, Protestant/Catholic wars, etc.

Strangely, not anabaptists...

But if you look at islamic history, the ENTIRE history is of invade and conquer. Don't take my word for it, look it up. Then read the Quran and the Haddith. It gives the instructions to invade and conquer so that Allah's ultimate work can be done. It's not just a history of violence, it is a religion that REQUIRES violence, because it teaches that no man can be assured of salvation UNLESS he dies in an act of jihad, or battle, for the faith.

Our religion teaches to love our enemies, theirs teaches to kill their enemies. Ours teaches to not act in aggression toward other religions, but theirs requires them to subdue and kill people of other religions. Ours teaches to show love to those who believe differently, but their teaches to give the unbelievers ONE chance to repent and join islam, and if they refuse, to kill them.

So, although it can be said that some people used the name of Christ in justification for killing others, IT WAS NEVER CHRIST'S TEACHING for us to do so. Not so with Mohammed and Allah.

Gold Dragon · Sep 14, 2004

lambslove said:
But if you look at islamic history, the ENTIRE history is of invade and conquer. Don't take my word for it, look it up.

No argument there.

lambslove said:
Then read the Quran and the Haddith. It gives the instructions to invade and conquer so that Allah's ultimate work can be done. It's not just a history of violence, it is a religion that REQUIRES violence, because it teaches that no man can be assured of salvation UNLESS he dies in an act of jihad, or battle, for the faith.

I think this is a disputable claim. While the Quran does have many violent passages, the same is true of our Bible. And western muslims would probably disagree that jihad requires physical violence. They view muslim extremists as misinterpreting scripture the same way we view christian extremists (abortion clinic bombers, KKK, etc) as misinterpreting scripture to justify their acts of violence. Unfortunately, violent conservative islam currently seems to be the norm rather than the exception. In previous times, the same could have been said of Christianity.

Wikipedia : jihad

Muslims often refer to jihad in two connotations, ...

"lesser (outer) jihad"a military struggle i.e. a holy war

"greater (inner) jihad"the struggle of personal self-improvement against the self's base desires"

...

According to the Qur'an,

Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed ... those who have been expelled from their homes without a just cause except that they say: Our Lord is Allah. (22:39-40) The interpretation of Jihad varies widely among Muslims today.

Defensive Jihad, or armed struggle against foreign occupation or oppression is considered Jihad by most Muslims. In colonial times, the Muslim population often rose against the colonial authorities under the banner of Jihad (e.g. Daghestan and Chechens against Tsarist Russia, Indian Mutiny against Britain, Algerians against France, etc.). In this sense, Jihad is no different from the right of armed resistance against occupation that is sanctioned under UN and International Law.

Offensive Jihad, or conquering non-Muslim lands and bringing them under Muslim rule was historically called Jihad too, although the need for it today is disputed among Muslims. Some say that it was practiced only to preserve Islam from destruction, and that the concept is now obsolete because freedom of religious practice is present in most of the world. Note that, according to the histories of the time, this process was never accompanied by forced conversions (which are contrary to Islamic law.)

Jihad is sometimes referred to as "The sixth pillar of Islam" in honour of its religious status and in reference to the Five Pillars of Islam, although there is no Quranic verses stating such, nor any hadiths.

lambslove said:
Our religion teaches to love our enemies, theirs teaches to kill their enemies. Ours teaches to not act in aggression toward other religions, but theirs requires them to subdue and kill people of other religions. Ours teaches to show love to those who believe differently, but their teaches to give the unbelievers ONE chance to repent and join islam, and if they refuse, to kill them.

So, although it can be said that some people used the name of Christ in justification for killing others, IT WAS NEVER CHRIST'S TEACHING for us to do so. Not so with Mohammed and Allah.

I would agree that Mohammed is a much more violent man than Jesus was while on earth. And that has a large influence on the Muslim-Christian disparity in this regard.

Iollain · Sep 14, 2004

Gold Dragon said:
History also tells us that some Christians have also used the bible to justify similar activities in the form of inquisitions, crusades, execution of heretics, Protestant/Catholic wars, etc.

Really i didn't know that, what verses did they use and what history books was that in?

ZiSunka · Sep 14, 2004

The idea of jihad being an inner struggle is a 20th century invention that is given little credence in the islamic world. I doubt you can find a muslim scholar or holy man who would agree to take the idea of inner struggle to be a true jihad. I have discussed it with many muslim friends when I was in college, and none of them would say that inner struggle was equal in saving power to the violent definition of jihad. In fact, one iman I know said that the idea of jihad as an inner struggle was created because the real meaning of jihad frightens westerners, so they have sugar-coated it by making up the inner struggle definition. But virtually all agreed that true jihad is a military action taken up for the purpose of spreading islam, by force, partly to insure the salvation of the the soul. It is attractive because the only way to know for sure you are going to heaven is to die as a result of jihad. Whoever heard of anyone dying as the result of inner struggle, except through suicide? and the quran and haddith BOTH condemn anyone who commits suicide to hell, except those who die in an act of spreading or defending islam. So in reality although this alternate definition of jihad SOUNDS pleasant, it is woefully inaccurate and misleading.

Grimace · Sep 14, 2004

Iollain said:
Really i didn't know that, what verses did they use and what history books was that in?

One example:

Exodus 22:18 says "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

This was used during the "burning times" to kill people accused of witchcraft (http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_burn.htm)

If you're leary of internet sites for information, there are numerous books available that deal with the witch trials, including the Salem Witch Trials. You may want to read "A Delusion of Satan: The Full Story of the Salem Witch Trials," by Frances Hill, a fascinating (but a bit tedious) read.

ZiSunka · Sep 14, 2004

Iollain said:
Really i didn't know that, what verses did they use and what history books was that in?

In ficiton books, mostly. One of the most revered texts that purports that 50 million people died as a result of persecution by Christians in the middle ages has been discredited in historical circles. The actual number, based on censuses and death records, is more like 10,000. Censuses don't lie. Either people are alive or dead. Death records wouldn't be likely to lie, either, since the catholic church was PROUD of the killings of the heretics. If anything, scholars agree, the records inflate the numbers to make individual bishops and churches look especially zealous and righteous.

It seems the author of that great history tome decided to include the numbers of people killed by the plague as Christian casualties because many blamed the superstitious inaction of the Roman Catholic church against the plague. Of course, no one had the ability to stop the plague, let alone the church, so even that charge is absurd once you get past the emotionalism of it.

Historians agree, though, that the number is around 10,000 all over Europe and the Middle East. Small potatoes compared to the islamic records that report the killing of 60,000 in one campaign in the Balkans alone in 1003 AD.

However, I firmly believe that even one killing in the name of Christ is heinous and dispicable. I'm not making excuses for what catholicism or anyone else did. I'm simply setting the record straight.

Gold Dragon · Sep 14, 2004

lambslove said:
The idea of jihad being an inner struggle is a 20th century invention that is given little credence in the islamic world. I doubt you can find a muslim scholar or holy man who would agree to take the idea of inner struggle to be a true jihad. I have discussed it with many muslim friends when I was in college, and none of them would say that inner struggle was equal in saving power to the violent definition of jihad. In fact, one iman I know said that the idea of jihad as an inner struggle was created because the real meaning of jihad frightens westerners, so they have sugar-coated it by making up the inner struggle definition. But virtually all agreed that true jihad is a military action taken up for the purpose of spreading islam, by force, partly to insure the salvation of the the soul. It is attractive because the only way to know for sure you are going to heaven is to die as a result of jihad. Whoever heard of anyone dying as the result of inner struggle, except through suicide? and the quran and haddith BOTH condemn anyone who commits suicide to hell, except those who die in an act of spreading or defending islam. So in reality although this alternate definition of jihad SOUNDS pleasant, it is woefully inaccurate and misleading.

Fair enough. I'm just trying to present other perspectives. Thanks for your insight and sharing your experiences. I think elaborating on the idea of jihad and different perspectives on it can give us a better perspective of our Muslim neighbours.

ZiSunka · Sep 14, 2004

Grimace said:
One example:

Exodus 22:18 says "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

This was used during the "burning times" to kill people accused of witchcraft (http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_burn.htm)

If you're leary of internet sites for information, there are numerous books available that deal with the witch trials, including the Salem Witch Trials. You may want to read "A Delusion of Satan: The Full Story of the Salem Witch Trials," by Frances Hill, a fascinating (but a bit tedious) read.

Oh yes, the burning times...

Fiction. Created by people with an ax to grind against Christianity. There are no contemporary references to the alleged burning times. All references to it are from the mid 1800's at the earliest.

And I don't think any of the salem witches were burned, were they? Weren't they all hung??

ZiSunka · Sep 14, 2004

Gold Dragon said:
Fair enough. I'm just trying to present other perspectives. Thanks for your insight and sharing your experiences. I think elaborating on the idea of jihad and different perspectives on it can give us a better perspective of our Muslim neighbours.

I'm all for getting new perspectives on people, as long as those new perspectives are the truth. The idea of jihad as an inner struggle is not the truth.

Gold Dragon · Sep 14, 2004

Iollain said:
Really i didn't know that, what verses did they use and what history books was that in?

The original idea of the Inquisitions was to supress heresy. As most fundamentalist Christians will remind you, this is a biblical principle that Paul and Jesus repeat many times to be wary of false prophets and teachers. However, in their zeal, many inquisitions went too far in their punishments, the worst of which was the famous Spanish Inquisition. Catholic Encyclopedia

The Crusades were initially a reaction to Muslims conquering Israel and Jerusalem and was encouraged by the Popes under Just War Theory. Pilgrimages to the Holy Land by European Christians was also a popular thing at that time and Muslim occupation threatened the safety of Christian pilgrims. The Popes drummed up support for the inital Crusades as a religous calling, drawing on the many passages of being a "soldier for Christ". Crusading to Muslim controlled territories became a popular religious experience all across Christian Europe. Similar to the promise of virgins in the afterlife for Muslims, Crusaders were promised full penance for their contributions to the crusades. Catholic Encyclopedia

Gold Dragon · Sep 14, 2004

lambslove said:
I'm all for getting new perspectives on people, as long as those new perspectives are the truth. The idea of jihad as an inner struggle is not the truth.

It is the truth to a minority of western Muslims.

Gold Dragon · Sep 14, 2004

lambslove said:
Oh yes, the burning times...

Fiction. Created by people with an ax to grind against Christianity. There are no contemporary references to the alleged burning times. All references to it are from the mid 1800's at the earliest.

And I don't think any of the salem witches were burned, were they? Weren't they all hung??

I have never heard of this position before. Could you recommend some authors or websites who think that the Salem Witch Trials are fiction?

Iraq....whats your take on this???

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