Introversion: "one of the biggest crimes in the world"

[InkBlott]

I've been wanting for some time to begin a topic on introversion. I'm not sure if this is the right forum for it or not, but I don't have a better option at the moment, so here it goes.

My topics tend to be TL;DR. If you want to skip to the bullet points at the end, that's fine.

I am an introvert. I have always had to make allowances for the fact that I am an introvert, increasingly so as I have grown older and my energies decline, but it seems that I have not managed as of yet to find the correct formula.

Yesterday I was skimming through Thomas Merton's The Seven Story Mountain looking for something else and found this little bit that I have quoted tongue in cheek in the title to this thread.

So it was then that I began to get all the books of Freud and Jung and Adler out of the big redecorated library of the Union and to study, with all the patience and application which my hangover allowed me, the mysteries of sex-repression and complexes and introversion and extroversion and all the rest. I, whose chief trouble was that my soul and all its faculties were going to seed because there was nothing to control my appetites--and they were pouring themselves out in an incoherent riot of undirected passion--came to the conclusion that the cause of all my unhappiness was sex-repression! And to make the thing more subtly intolerable, I came to the conclusion that one of the biggest crimes in this world was introversion..."

It's humorous, yet it isn't.

When I was younger I attended a non-denominational Christian church. There was an atmosphere there that measured one's faith, one's dedication to Christ, at least partly by the enthusiasm with which one attended services. It was an endless round, and failure to show up was considered a sign of backsliding. I needed, even then, from time to time, to find large blocks of time to be in solitude. When I took that time, when I missed church, I did so with tremendous guilt and even fear. A backslider was a horrible thing to be...

The cues outside of church are less obvious, but still there. It is an extrovert's world. When I behave like an introvert, it always seems as though I am misbehaving. To be alone is, in our culture, to be selfish with one's time, with one's very self. I recall my extroverted mother once describing my cousin as a failure. Why? Is he bankrupt, a wife-beater, an absentee father? No. He's an introvert. To her, the failure to make the sort of rich and varied social connects on which she thrived was failure indeed.

• What do we introverts owe to this world, to ourselves, to our families, our communities?
• If you are an introvert, how do you balance being in solitude and being with others?
• If you have an introvert in your life, how do you give care and consideration to that person in light of their introversion?
• Is introversion one of the biggest crimes in the world?

_____

Some interesting resources:

Caring for Your Introvert - The Atlantic (March 2003)

Introverts are not Mentally Ill

The Top 10 Ways to Market to Introverts (you know, the ones with the high income)

 

[The Nihilist]

Everyone is a jerk. Don't worry about it.

 

[BobW188]

Take it from me: half or more of those extraverts you see are introverts faking it. Or, perhaps more accurately and certainly more fairly, who over time have broadened out to live a little more in that larger, "outside" world. That need not involve going to those churches you describe.
If introversion is a crime, Thomas Aquinas was a criminal. As are today's Benedictines, Cistercians, Trappists and the others. There is no special debt you owe anyone. Introversion need not involve, by the way, saddling yourself with problems and conflicts, new or old. I have a great deal of respect for Dr. Jung; but here he overlooks that we do that at birth. Jung is the first to say that there is much good in the Shadow. To confront it is as much - to my mind and in my experience, more - the exploration of a new continent than an unwanted burden.

Speaking of the concious and unconcious minds, Jung wrote: "if the two must conflict, at least let the fight be fair, with equal rights on both sides." The same can be and should be said of introversion/extraversion. You mnay want to work towards a different balance of the two. You don't want to eliminate or repress either.

 

[Everlasting33]

How exactly is it a crime to be an introvert?

Many things characterized as unhealthy or wrong is based on action, not on the thing itself. Introverts tend to self-insulate which can correlate with degrees of depression, self-consciousness, and heightened awareness of one's emotions and thoughts. Certainly, there are disadvantages of introversion and extroversion but I really do not believe it's enough to call either a crime.

 

[brinny]

I used to be an introvert. But i think it was because i was traumatized as a young child, because my natural inclination was to be an extravert. It changed when i was about 7 yrs old.

I stayed an introvert until adulthood, at which time, circumstances caused me to bust outta my shell. Since then, i've been an extravert.

For myself, i needed to free myself from a self-imposed prison of repression, bound up in being an introvert. It was as though my potential and genuine spontaneity was "blocked". Like a part of me was locked up tight in a closet and was not allowed to come out and play. And seriously? Play is as crucial to being alive as breathing is.

I don't agree that introversion is a crime. Just sad.

 

[Everlasting33]

I used to be an introvert. But i think it was because i was traumatized as a young child, because my natural inclination was to be an extravert. It changed when i was about 7 yrs old.

I stayed an introvert until adulthood, at which time, circumstances caused me to bust outta my shell. Since then, i've been an extravert.

For myself, i needed to free myself from a self-imposed prison of repression, bound up in being an introvert. It was as though my potential and genuine spontaneity was "blocked". Like a part of me was locked up tight in a closet and was not allowed to come out and play. And seriously? Play is as crucial to being alive as breathing is.

I don't agree that introversion is a crime. Just sad.

I can concur to this.

I was raised in a very abusive and neglectful environment and I gravitated toward introversion more out of insecurity than desire.

When I was a baby, I was very happy and outgoing but my mom noticed I became more shy with age (and more aware of the inferior parenting styles).

As I overcome hurdles of insecurity and low self-esteem, I have noticed I desire more human interaction than I once did. While I have never been 100% extrovert, I believe introversion is more likely induced by the negative events of childhood than by natural disposition.

 

[quatona]

Not sure I really find this distinction intro- vs. extravert particularly use- or meaningful, nor can I seem to label myself one or the other. I feel that human interaction/communication is what makes my life worthwhile (and the older I get, the stronger this feeling seems to get), but I definitely need those times of being alone, time to reconsider, time to look back and process my encounters and experiences, time to act without immediate pressure, time to collect and center myself in order to go back to the others and be able to contribute that which they seem to value about me.

Also, I seem to have problems with the assertion that introversion and sexual repression are necessarily linked.

• What do we introverts owe to this world, to ourselves, to our families, our communities?

A TrueIntrovert(TM) wouldn´t even ask such a question, would he?

I can´t seem to follow the idea that anyone owes anything to the world, to begin with.

• If you are an introvert, how do you balance being in solitude and being with others?

In the way that I assume is best for everybody involved.
Btw. I am able to enjoy being together with one person almost without time-limits, while being in groups tends to take rather than give energy from/to me.

• If you have an introvert in your life, how do you give care and consideration to that person in light of their introversion?

Hey man, you almost make it sound like introverted are sort of like autists or something.
I leave people alone if they want to be left alone.

• Is introversion one of the biggest crimes in the world?

I don´t know there´s a law against introversion (at least not in my country), so no, it´s not a crime at all.

 

[Infernalfist]

i think this might actually be one of those grass is greener arguments. the only way to tell for sure who's grass is greener, is by standing between the lawns and comparing. a balance is actually more important than choosing which side to be on. if we are all achieving our own perfect balances we have no time to look at someone else and blame them for ours or any one else's lack of balance.

 

[InkBlott]

Take it from me: half or more of those extraverts you see are introverts faking it. Or, perhaps more accurately and certainly more fairly, who over time have broadened out to live a little more in that larger, "outside" world. That need not involve going to those churches you describe.
If introversion is a crime, Thomas Aquinas was a criminal. As are today's Benedictines, Cistercians, Trappists and the others. There is no special debt you owe anyone. Introversion need not involve, by the way, saddling yourself with problems and conflicts, new or old. I have a great deal of respect for Dr. Jung; but here he overlooks that we do that at birth. Jung is the first to say that there is much good in the Shadow. To confront it is as much - to my mind and in my experience, more - the exploration of a new continent than an unwanted burden.

Speaking of the concious and unconcious minds, Jung wrote: "if the two must conflict, at least let the fight be fair, with equal rights on both sides." The same can be and should be said of introversion/extraversion. You mnay want to work towards a different balance of the two. You don't want to eliminate or repress either.

I don't let Jung (or Merton for that matter) worry me overly much. What I like about Jung is the framework and the language he worked out that allows me to think about things such as introversion in an organized manner. A vague consciousness that I am different from how most people seem isn't particularly helpful to me. The very vagueness of it opens the door to feelings of guilt and inadequacy.

You've definitely put your finger on it to say that I may need to find a different balance of the two. My career requires strongly extroverted behavior. I think that attempting to arrange my off time so that it then includes a balance between introverted and extroverted behavior has skewed me dangerously out of balance over all.

 

[InkBlott]

How exactly is it a crime to be an introvert?

I was caught between chuckling and tearing up when I read this in Merton's book. I like his dry wit, but I also know that feeling, and I know he was not exaggerating very much. I find that the extroverted community tends to see time spent alone as time that is open and exploitable. One receives endless feedback that one is being selfish, neglectful, a backslider, lazy, mean, that one is actually robbing all interested parties when one deliberatly spends significant blocks of time alone. What's more, spending significant blocks of time alone makes one suspect. Why, the introverted community asks itself, would anyone spend so much time alone if there wasn't something wrong, perhaps even criminally wrong?

It gets internalized, I'm afraid. I am off work this week. I am buying my every minute alone in this house with a degree of guilt.

Many things characterized as unhealthy or wrong is based on action, not on the thing itself. Introverts tend to self-insulate which can correlate with degrees of depression, self-consciousness, and heightened awareness of one's emotions and thoughts. Certainly, there are disadvantages of introversion and extroversion but I really do not believe it's enough to call either a crime.

So I've been told many times. Will you believe me if I tell you that spending time with friends after work too often (and you might be shocked as to how seldom too often can be) I will without fail begin to suffer depression, self-consciousness, and eventually self-loathing? It is a cumulative effect. It does not matter how much I love my friends or how much I enjoy my time with them.

Scraping the insulation off something is usually not a good idea.

Extroverts might imagine being in solitary confinement and how their thought patterns would become skewed over time without human interaction. It will give you a good idea how enforced socialization feels to introverts.

 

[InkBlott]

I used to be an introvert. But i think it was because i was traumatized as a young child, because my natural inclination was to be an extravert. It changed when i was about 7 yrs old.

I stayed an introvert until adulthood, at which time, circumstances caused me to bust outta my shell. Since then, i've been an extravert.

For myself, i needed to free myself from a self-imposed prison of repression, bound up in being an introvert. It was as though my potential and genuine spontaneity was "blocked". Like a part of me was locked up tight in a closet and was not allowed to come out and play. And seriously? Play is as crucial to being alive as breathing is.

I don't agree that introversion is a crime. Just sad.

Thank goodness you were able to overcome the effects of being traumatized! I like the mental picture of you breaking out of a closet to play.

In my own experience, it is after four or five days of solitude that I begin breaking out into art and poetry. If you want to take a look at my Soul Collage album, the collages were almost all done during a 10 day period of complete solitude. Thee or four days into it I had a funny feeling in my chest as I contemplated what I would do next. It took me a while to realize (and remember) that the feeling was happiness. It is nothing like the revved-up sugar-high-like sense I feel when I am around others. It is, to quote the character Little Voice from the movie of the same name, a "fine light." It had been a long time.

 

[InkBlott]

I can concur to this.

I was raised in a very abusive and neglectful environment and I gravitated toward introversion more out of insecurity than desire.

When I was a baby, I was very happy and outgoing but my mom noticed I became more shy with age (and more aware of the inferior parenting styles).

As I overcome hurdles of insecurity and low self-esteem, I have noticed I desire more human interaction than I once did. While I have never been 100% extrovert, I believe introversion is more likely induced by the negative events of childhood than by natural disposition.

It's very interesting to hear your perspective on this. Thank you.

I hope I'm not holding myself up too much as some sort of a model of introversion, but I know my own situation better than any other. I am not shy. I do not suffer social anxiety (beyond the anxiety inherent in doing something that feels somewhat annoying for most of the day). My self-esteem, interestingly, begins to suffer with too much socialization. Give me a few days alone and I begin to stop worrying about how I am. the tasks around me become my focus. I begin to laugh spontaneously. I dream more vividly and remember my dreams better. I produce more artwork. I stop jumping and swearing out loud when the phone rings.

But, as I say, it is bought with guilt. This is not how people are supposed to be. Those who love me, force themselves into my solitude for my own good because being alone is Not Good for People. They are hurt when I increasingly flinch at the contact. I must be pretending. I must be mean.

My mother, at the very end of her life, told me that she took my father's dislike of social occasions as a direct insult to her. She simply could not imagine anyone not enjoying them. Therefore, she spent their entire married life convinced that he was avoiding these occasions out of spite and malice against her. And there was nothing I could ever say to convince her otherwise. Dad was an introvert. Like me. He loved her.

 

[InkBlott]

i think this might actually be one of those grass is greener arguments. the only way to tell for sure who's grass is greener, is by standing between the lawns and comparing. a balance is actually more important than choosing which side to be on. if we are all achieving our own perfect balances we have no time to look at someone else and blame them for ours or any one else's lack of balance.

There is truth in what you say. I might add, however, that societies have personalities as well. The society I live in is extroverted. Therefore those of us who are introverts are at a bit of a natural disadvantage. One has to work much harder to find one's balance--to find one's fine light of happiness.

Remember the television series Northern Exposure? I love the character of Marilyn. There was one episode when she took her "flying man" boyfriend home to meet her family. At dinner, no one spoke at all, and the deeply reticent "flying man" was overjoyed. Like the ugly duckling in the old fable, he had found his true family.

 

[InkBlott]

Not sure I really find this distinction intro- vs. extravert particularly use- or meaningful, nor can I seem to label myself one or the other. I feel that human interaction/communication is what makes my life worthwhile (and the older I get, the stronger this feeling seems to get), but I definitely need those times of being alone, time to reconsider, time to look back and process my encounters and experiences, time to act without immediate pressure, time to collect and center myself in order to go back to the others and be able to contribute that which they seem to value about me.

I also feel that human interactions and how they play out are immensely important. It is the balance that is the trick. How do I arrange and guard my time and energies so than the interactions I do have are meaningful and fulfilling rather than gone about mechanistically and in a drained, exhausted state? I turned 54 today. Like you I find that I need more solitude as I grow older. Do I want fewer but more meaningful and rewarding encounters with those I love or do I want to walk zombie-like through an endless round? Is more always better?

Also, I seem to have problems with the assertion that introversion and sexual repression are necessarily linked.
[/list]
A TrueIntrovert(TM) wouldn´t even ask such a question, would he?

In all fairness, I would say that by the time he wrote The Seven Story Mountain Merton was looking back on those days with wry amusement.

I can´t seem to follow the idea that anyone owes anything to the world, to begin with.
[/list]
In the way that I assume is best for everybody involved.

I knew it was a rather loaded word when I used it.

Btw. I am able to enjoy being together with one person almost without time-limits, while being in groups tends to take rather than give energy from/to me.

I experience this too. In fact, I would say that the give and take of energy, as you've described it here, is pretty much what defines introversion/extroversion.

Hey man, you almost make it sound like introverted are sort of like autists or something.

I suspect I am on the very edge of being Autistic, just this side of Asperger's syndrome. There's probably a teensie bit of overlap there coloring my own experience.

I leave people alone if they want to be left alone.

You don't even intrude for their own good???

I don´t know there´s a law against introversion (at least not in my country), so no, it´s not a crime at all.

 

[Everlasting33]

I was caught between chuckling and tearing up when I read this in Merton's book. I like his dry wit, but I also know that feeling, and I know he was not exaggerating very much. I find that the extroverted community tends to see time spent alone as time that is open and exploitable. One receives endless feedback that one is being selfish, neglectful, a backslider, lazy, mean, that one is actually robbing all interested parties when one deliberatly spends significant blocks of time alone. What's more, spending significant blocks of time alone makes one suspect. Why, the introverted community asks itself, would anyone spend so much time alone if there wasn't something wrong, perhaps even criminally wrong?

It gets internalized, I'm afraid. I am off work this week. I am buying my every minute alone in this house with a degree of guilt.



So I've been told many times. Will you believe me if I tell you that spending time with friends after work too often (and you might be shocked as to how seldom too often can be) I will without fail begin to suffer depression, self-consciousness, and eventually self-loathing? It is a cumulative effect. It does not matter how much I love my friends or how much I enjoy my time with them.

Scraping the insulation off something is usually not a good idea.

Extroverts might imagine being in solitary confinement and how their thought patterns would become skewed over time without human interaction. It will give you a good idea how enforced socialization feels to introverts.

It has been said that extroverts receive energy from people and introverts from solitude.

Both extroverts and introverts need to accept one another. It is easy to compare the two and attempt to see which one is better. However, both is needed in this world. I once heard this amusing quote in a magazine (forget it exactly but it went something like) :The world needs introverts. Just imagine everyone being like Howard Stern or Madonna.

 

[quatona]

I also feel that human interactions and how they play out are immensely important. It is the balance that is the trick. How do I arrange and guard my time and energies so than the interactions I do have are meaningful and fulfilling rather than gone about mechanistically and in a drained, exhausted state? I turned 54 today. Like you I find that I need more solitude as I grow older. Do I want fewer but more meaningful and rewarding encounters with those I love or do I want to walk zombie-like through an endless round? Is more always better?

Firstly: Happy Birthday!

No, I don´t think that more is always better, and I am pretty convinced that if one the two options introvertedness and extravertedness is overproportionally present in my society it would definitely be extravertedness.

Actually, until I read your OP I wasn´t even aware that introvertedness had such a bad reputation.
But generally speaking, I think both are needed and both would be better off appreciating and embracing each other. We need the extraverted and the introverted, the fast and the slow, the doers and the thinkers, party and philosophy, and we should take care that everyone gets the place where their abilities and fortes have the best effect.
That said, I am honestly surprised that you don´t seem to receive appreciation for your introvertedness. Personally, I get a lot of positive feedback, and people can seem to get a lot out of it. I mean - if someone wants to really talk they don´t go to the extraverted, but to an introverted, do they? So I am happy that the things I am not good at and don´t enjoy too much are covered elsewhere, and that I am approached when it comes to things I am good at and that I enjoy. I really can´t see a problem.

I suspect I am on the very edge of being Autistic, just this side of Asperger's syndrome. There's probably a teensie bit of overlap there coloring my own experience.

I have always found autists to be very inspiring.
However, full blown autists can be very special, and if you don´t know about their condition and expect them to behave "normally", this can be a very frustrating experience for both sides. When I still knew very little about autism I had a private student who was an autist without me realizing it. I am afraid I did a lot of damage back then.

You don't even intrude for their own good???

Do I know what´s for their own good? I do have my ideas as to what people around me might need to reach their excellence and to solve their personal problems, but hopefully I am not intrusively telling them what to do. I tend to listen and to ask questions, to pay great attention to signs that tell me which questions inspire them and which make them uncomfortable, and continue accordingly.

 

[Eudaimonist]

What do we introverts owe to this world, to ourselves, to our families, our communities?

Only what we owe to ourselves, which is to be true to ourselves, with all of our introversion.

If you are an introvert, how do you balance being in solitude and being with others?

Simply by prudently doing what I have the energy and inclination for. I don't owe it to others to socialize with them. I may owe it to myself to socialize in wise moderation, but this must take into account that I need time to myself to recharge my batteries. No one may demand of me that I abuse myself for their benefit.

Is introversion one of the biggest crimes in the world?

Adolf Hitler was an extrovert. Hmmmmmmm......




eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[InkBlott]

Only what we owe to ourselves, which is to be true to ourselves, with all of our introversion.



Simply by prudently doing what I have the energy and inclination for. I don't owe it to others to socialize with them. I may owe it to myself to socialize in wise moderation, but this must take into account that I need time to myself to recharge my batteries. No one may demand of me that I abuse myself for their benefit.



Adolf Hitler was an extrovert. Hmmmmmmm......




eudaimonia,

Mark

As I remarked to quatona, I knew the word 'owe' was a loaded term when I used it. I went ahead and used it anyway because it is exactly how I find myself looking at things. It is as if I am constantly working an elaborate equation.

One thing that makes the equation difficult to work is that the state of mind I have put myself into in order to socialize and work is so artificially hyped up that I begin to lose the ability to tell when I am getting tired until I hit a wall. "No. I'm fine. I can do this I can do this." *BOOM*

So, anyway, thank you for questioning the term. I need to question it.

 

[InkBlott]

Actually, until I read your OP I wasn´t even aware that introvertedness had such a bad reputation.

Whenever someone in America is arrested for some horrific crime, the television reporters ask their neighbors about them. They always get the same answer. "He was a quiet guy. A loner."

Case in point. Read the second sentence. I knew before I even began to Google that it would be there.

There is this sort of myth in American society that those who enjoy solitude are somewhat unhinged and prone to socially unacceptable acts. One looks askance at loners. Those of us who enjoy being alone for its own sake, who are happily and benignly puttering along in our happy solitude, quite pleased with our fellow human beings as long as they are not constantly knocking on our doors, are tarred with the same brush as those frustrated extroverts who are turning away visitors because they don't want anyone to find out about the pickled babies in their basement.

 

[BobW188]

C'mon. I don't think you'll find one person in several hundreds who lives by the equation Homicidal=Introverted. Yes, a good many killers have been described as loners. A good many more have been described as boisterous, abusive, mean drunk etc.
In fact, the quiet person is as likely as not described as "strong, silent type," "a man of few words," "self contained" and "having an air of mystery about him." He or she "doesn't waste words." We've built the whole cowboy mystique around this. Charles Lindbergh was "The Lone Eagle" not just for his solo New York - Paris flight but because. afterwards, he bore so much of his celebrity in polite, dignified silence.

Calvin Coolidge was approached by a woman who said, "Mr President, I bet a friend I could get three words out of you." "You lose," he replied; and America laughed. A German officer demanded General McAuliffe surrender the 101st Airborne at Bastogne and he replied "Nuts." (Or so said the press. I've heard it said that the one-word response was quite a bit more forceful.) We made him a hero.

It's been my observation that the few people who really are bothered by introverted behavior are those who expect others to be like they are; and who are not all that secure in themselves. (In Jungian usage, their Selves.) It strikes me that your problem - to the extent it is a problem - might fall more under the heading of shyness, not introversion. The two often go together and, as I said in my first, fully half (at least) of the yakking extraverts you deal with are introverts faking it. (I am still, in many ways, one of them.)
If you are really stuck in a job where you have to spend a lot of time talking, face to face, you might consider a public speaking course or Toastmasters International. The first really helped me open up, I think my Dad would've said the same about the second. Either should help you develop a certain comfort in this situation that you (and a lot more people than you think) don't like; and a certain confidence that, however much you'd rather be elsewhere, you can effectively function in it.

Eudaimonist really wraps it up. You are under no obligation - unless you are Saint Paul - to be all things to all people. You are certainly under no obligation to routinely torture yourself talking for hours about nothing because you're among "friends." The friends worth having are the ones who take you as you are. As you find them and they find you, I think you'll find you're not the social isolate you seem to think you are. In fact, that you're liked because you tend to speak only when you have something to say.