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Introducing "Dark Matter"

Michael

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You do know that SUSY is still hypothetical? There is no evidnce for it yet and some people hope to see some at the LHC in 10 years time but that will be a long wait.

BBC News - LHC results put supersymmetry theory 'on the spot'

So far the evidence isn't looking good in if you're a big SUSY fan.

If SUSY gets the mass of the Higgs right, then there is some indirect evidence for it.
There are almost as many SUSY options to choose from as there are inflation sky entities to choose from. One of them is BOUND to be "close enough".

That is how science has worked. We use the current models until they are replaced. Until we find better models, we have to use what we have available.
I don't know how the mainstream defines "better". They seem to be intent on NOT changing their models even when the evidence suggests that they should.

I can't even imagine how an atheist could entertain the idea of the existence of MANY new dimensions of reality, but reject the concept of God. I'm not much of a string theory fan myself.
 
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Nabobalis

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I'm not a SUSY or a string theory fan. I leave that work for theorists. These ideas are theoretical, I don't entertain any of them. If evidence for one appears than I start to.

I've spoken to several particle physicists who came back from a recent conference, none of them seem to have discounted SUSY yet and tell me it is far too early to tell. We will have to wait and see what more data brings.
 
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Nabobalis

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You mean, how they required more definite evidence before they accepted the idea. How terrible, the idea of trying to independent lines of evidence.


The point stands, with dark energy and dark matter your entire "empirical god" doesn't work as you require an electric universe. You can't have that with current cosmological models.

No one will deny that the BB model will be/should be replaced, the issue is with what. There isn't an alternative at the moment (that I'm aware of). Science tends to come in shifts, just waiting for a form of quantum gravity to appear that can be tested so we can compare it to current cosmological models.
 
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Michael

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Nobody has ever discounted God either, but that doesn't stop some people from declaring themselves to be atheists.
 
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Michael

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You mean, how they required more definite evidence before they accepted the idea. How terrible, the idea of trying to independent lines of evidence.

It's not the independent line of evidence I'm worried about, it's the snails pace of change, unless it's METAPHYSICAL change, that I resent. Empirical theories seem to take FOREVER to gain mainstream acceptance.

The point stands, with dark energy and dark matter your entire "empirical god" doesn't work as you require an electric universe.

Technically we could live in an electric universe *WITH* dark mater AND dark energy, so you're point is actually moot. My resistance to the "dark" stuff is based upon EMPIRICAL grounds. The fact our technology is limited and our galaxy models are flawed is NOT evidence that exotic forms of matter exist.

You can't have that with current cosmological models.

Ok, I'll bite. Why not? Why does it have to be "either or"?

No one will deny that the BB model will be/should be replaced, the issue is with what. There isn't an alternative at the moment (that I'm aware of).

It's the "that I'm aware of" that I"m worried about. Such alternatives already exist IMO.

Science tends to come in shifts, just waiting for a form of quantum gravity to appear that can be tested so we can compare it to current cosmological models.

I'm equally sure it will "shift" toward EU theory too, but maybe not until after I'm dead.
 
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Michael

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BBC News - Electron particle's shape revealed

FYI, other studies done on the shape of electrons also tend to cast doubt on the simplest forms of SUSY theory. There's literally NO evidence for exotic forms of matter, and SOME evidence to suggest that SUSY theory is wrong. IMO it makes a lot more sense to simply go back to the drawing board in terms of our original assumptions about galaxy formation processes, particularly in light of recent observations.
 
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NGC 6712

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This is a great example of why popular science articles should be avoided. An electron does not have a shape - it is a point. What these popular reports are not telling you is that this experiment is a measure of the electron dipole moment which in a classical physics sense can be thought of as indicating a shape. But it is a quantum world and the EDM is not a "shape".
 
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Michael

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This is a great example of why popular science articles should be avoided. An electron does not have a shape - it is a point.

Define "point" in terms of actual physics. We know it has a specific MASS. Why wouldn't it have a specific 'shape'?

Phys. Rev. Lett. 100, 073003 (2008): Coherent Electron Scattering Captured by an Attosecond Quantum Stroboscope
#70: A Single Electron Is Caught on Film | Subatomic Particles | DISCOVER Magazine

What these popular reports are not telling you is that this experiment is a measure of the electron dipole moment which in a classical physics sense can be thought of as indicating a shape. But it is a quantum world and the EDM is not a "shape".

I don't know. That image makes an electron look kinda 'round' rather than say triangular, or rectangular. What do you mean it doesn't have a "shape"?
 
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NGC 6712

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Point = zero radius. I don't see the relevance of those links. That image is a stroboscopic image. What has that got to do with this?
 
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juvenissun

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Point = zero radius. I don't see the relevance of those links. That image is a stroboscopic image. What has that got to do with this?

So, is electron the dark matter? or one of the dark matter?
 
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Nabobalis

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To follow up on that - the abstract:

 
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Nabobalis

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It's not the independent line of evidence I'm worried about, it's the snails pace of change, unless it's METAPHYSICAL change, that I resent. Empirical theories seem to take FOREVER to gain mainstream acceptance.

You mean how they had to invent a satellite first to test his results. Of course it was slow. Now experiments take around 10 to 15 years to go through planning and then launch. It is very slow and that won't change any time soon.


With dark matter and dark energy, plasma cosmology doesn't work. The whole thing hinges on EM forces, which we know don't work on such large scales with any real strength. Only gravity can.

It's the "that I'm aware of" that I"m worried about. Such alternatives already exist IMO.

Well there are most likely have to better ideas than an EU.

I'm equally sure it will "shift" toward EU theory too, but maybe not until after I'm dead.

I'm sure it will shift but if we get a theory for quantum gravity I suspect it won't be towards EU.
 
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juvenissun

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He was talking about how we can treat subatomic particles as point masses. Nothing to do with dark matter.

You are the one who said the subatomic "particle" has no size. If no size, then it is not visible. So it is dark and is (?) matter?
 
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Nabobalis

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You are the one who said the subatomic "particle" has no size. If no size, then it is not visible. So it is dark and is (?) matter?

It has a size, its just so small we can treat them as point-like particles (i.e we have little to no hope atm of measuring its radius). The shape of an electron doesn't exist since they are point like.

We can see electrons since they are charged and we have measured the mass of them as well. So we can identify them.

Dark matter isn't charged and only seems to interact via gravity. That is why is it called dark.
 
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Doveaman

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juvenissun

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I suggest you focus on the dark matter and skip the argument about the size, shape of electron. There is no point to defend a mistake.
 
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