Interesting view on Abortion - Please Participate (FOR EVERY MEMBERS OF THE FORUM)

Archivist said:

You could argue that the Puritans in pre-Revolutionary New England lived in a theocracy. Although the church wasn't in direct control, it did exercise a great deal of control over the authorities.

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Ahh, I stand corrected, I hadn't thought of it that way.

Greetings.

Another question ... if a woman is being abused by her husband and he hits her in the stomach, causing her to abort, who is liable? The husband for the hitting? Or the woman for not leaving someone she knows is an abuser?

What if a woman is a drug user and the fetus aborts?

And what does everyone think about the fact that it's ultimately a woman's problem. Men can go on blithely and ignore their children, but a woman is a mother forever. She risks death (yes, death) by carrying a child. Her body is permanently changed by carrying a child. Who has more "right" to make decisions for that fetus?

Just some things to think about. Personally, I wouldn't have an abortion at this stage in my life. But in college, if I got too drunk and got pregnant, I probably would have seriously considered it, regardless of my religious beliefs.

With metta,
Zenda

Excellent post Zenda!

Zen_Woof said:

Greetings.

Her body is permanently changed by carrying a child. Who has more "right" to make decisions for that fetus?

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The child is permanently killed by abortion. Why would a mother have a "right" to kill another human, especially her own child. It is a sick society that advocates a mother killing her own child.

Zen_Woof said:

if a woman is being abused by her husband and he hits her in the stomach, causing her to abort, who is liable? The husband for the hitting? Or the woman for not leaving someone she knows is an abuser?

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I do not believe the woman is ever responcible for someone hitting her. I agree she could have been smarter, especially if he has a history of abuses, but it is ultimately the man's fault for the death of the unborn child in such a case.

Zen_Woof said:

What if a woman is a drug user and the fetus aborts?

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The woman is entirely responcible for this.

Zen_Woof said:

And what does everyone think about the fact that it's ultimately a woman's problem. Men can go on blithely and ignore their children, but a woman is a mother forever.

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I think this is rediculous. Men have just as much responcibility to be involved with their children and I think there should be much more forceful legal action taken against them.

Zen_Woof said:

She risks death (yes, death) by carrying a child. Her body is permanently changed by carrying a child. Who has more "right" to make decisions for that fetus?

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While I agree that the woman risks death by carrying the child, I do think that if my wife wanted an abortion and I did not I should be able to legaly override her decision. It would be her choice then to get her "tubes tied" or whatever to prevent further pregnancies (because that decision is stricktly hers, I won't argue it). I think that in cases of unwed mothers, the guy has no rights because he is not married to her so it IS purely her choice how to handle the pregnancy. While I'm not comfortable with allowing that choice, at the present time it is availible and I don't really blame them for excersizing their choice.

Monica02 said:

The child is permanently killed by abortion. Why would a mother have a "right" to kill another human, especially her own child. It is a sick society that advocates a mother killing her own child.

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I don't believe that anyone is "advocating" that a mother kill her own child.

Most of the people I know who are pro-choice, including myself, don't advocate in favor of abortion, we simply believe that the choice must remain with the pregnant woman.

Monica02 said:

The child is permanently killed by abortion. Why would a mother have a "right" to kill another human, especially her own child. It is a sick society that advocates a mother killing her own child.

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Greetings Monica.

I'm not saying that a mother killing her child is moral or ethical, merely that the mother lives with the burden of her children until she dies, whereas the father does not.

With metta,
Zenda

Caprice:

I agree with your points as a father and husband. I am thinking of those men who get a woman pregnant and then pretend they don't know them.

With metta,
Zenda

Zen_Woof said:

I agree with your points as a father and husband. I am thinking of those men who get a woman pregnant and then pretend they don't know them.

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I was about to respond to your statement but in the process of doing so I realized that I sound like a facist. While that may be the truth in this case, and I think that is OK, I'd rather not go into the details of my thoughts here other than to say that the man involved, once proven to be the dad, would be in pretty sorry shape financially, socialy, and legaly for the rest of his life if my thoughts were law.

God reconizes the baby from the even before the moment of conception. That is all that should matter. Abortion is wrong. People use dumb excuses in order to have them. It is very rare that a mothers life is in danger due to a pregnancy. I thought this a christian forum board. I don't see to many christians on here.

My view quite simply is don't have an abortion. Although I have been kicked out of a forum for going into detail about my view in all honesty the forum was a for profit forum so I hope my view will be permitted here. Also in advance I do not debate politics so do not expect a reply if you agree or disagree with this view. If you have a question about it please feel free to message me and maybe I will get back to if I feel the message requires an answer.

My view.

First of all I believe that God is not for a certain political or canditate to be in office because God is the office.
After some long thought and prayer on this topic I think I am ready to offer my personal stance.
Number One. First and foremost I am a Christian and because of that God disciplines me as one of His children.
Number Two. To say I am pro life is not realistic in the abortion opinion because the pro life movement asks that government regulate and prohibit abortion, and I believe that personal freedom is a God given right. That prohibiting abortion may lead to other legal ways of forced execution or forced suicide as well as control within fertile and other areas of life style. I certainly do not see reason to force someone to bow down to my personal beliefs and walk in Christ. I believe that God makes it difficult for people who go through abortion both mentally and physically. I also believe that in no way does God validate abortion.
Number Three. However I also do not want to say I am pro choice or (pro abortion) depending on the view because it is the other end of the extreme. Pro choice asks that abortion be a personal liberty, and liberty is a basic human right of all persons, the born and the unborn. I believe that currently the pro choice stance is asking that abortion be used as a form of birth control. I can't think of a deeper form of denial then compensating for sexual sin with the killing of an innocent life.
Number Four. I am concerned for the welfare of pregnant mothers with physical disability that following through with child birth may result in death. I am sure that the decision there is agonizing for the mother as well as the father and certainly children or family members in the household.
Number Five. I am concerned about the young women who become pregnant because of co dependency and also rape reasons. That are in a bad situation because of family and either have to decide to hide the pregnancy or abort it because of family disfunction.
Number Six. What is the moral implications in asking someone to die because of political moral majority views? I can fully understand if a person makes a hard thought out choice with proper counseling and in sound mind to sacrifice their life for the life of an unborn. Then there maybe also situations when there isn't time to make that kind of
decision.

Number Seven. My answer to why there is no need to make abortion illegal. Legal abortion seems to be a political evolutionary step in our social structure. Before the legalization of abortion back in 1972 the mortality rate of women was dramatically greater then the following years. So illegalizing it again I believe would not be a good solution. However it is in my nature to try new ideas so I propose that each abortion done legally be given the same respect as a murder and brought to court. Then it is the courts decision whether or not there were proper grounds for abortion or if the woman made a selfish choice to use abortion as birth control and should be sentenced. But if the woman should be sentenced then also the biological father should also be brought to justice in a court room setting to also be convicted and sentenced if found guilty. This would more then likely prevent abortion methods as being used for birth control. Also this solution would require the banning of all morning after types of drugs that terminate early pregnancy. I believe that this solution may also encourage some people to have illegal abortion but at least these people were given the opportunity to have an abortion in a clean hospital setting before attempting suicide in a none sterile environment. All medical doctors involved in each case would be required to be accountable for each abortion operation.

My stance is, All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
That we are born into a harsh world filled with sin and that pregnancy is an adult responsibility that should be handled maturely and reasonably. No one should have to die because of pregnancy but in some cases it does happen in this world. Reproduction should be a beautiful and spiritual thing where killing an unborn child shouldn't even be an issue.
But we are not in a perfect world.
Trust in God. Do concerning others what you would have them do concerning you. Love one another deeply from the heart.
Do not murder. do not commit adultery. Do not give false testimony and all other of the more then 1000 commandments of the new testament.

Because it is not possible to live by all the commandments follow the greatest two. When you sin accept that you have been forgiven all past present and future sins.

I am grateful that come election day I have the right vote anyway I choose.

Glory to God.

Karenswalk said:

God reconizes the baby from the even before the moment of conception. That is all that should matter. Abortion is wrong. People use dumb excuses in order to have them. It is very rare that a mothers life is in danger due to a pregnancy. I thought this a christian forum board. I don't see to many christians on here.

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Greetings Karenswalk.

You might want to check out the Christians only sections of the board. This is Discussion and Debate and there are a lot of nonChristians here.

With metta,
Zenda

Caprice said:

I was about to respond to your statement but in the process of doing so I realized that I sound like a facist. While that may be the truth in this case, and I think that is OK, I'd rather not go into the details of my thoughts here other than to say that the man involved, once proven to be the dad, would be in pretty sorry shape financially, socialy, and legaly for the rest of his life if my thoughts were law.

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Greetings.

I can think of some women who would like someone to make and enforce laws for this then.

With metta,
Zenda

I think life is always a precious thing, and abortion should be avoided. But, when the benefits of the abortion is more valuable than the life of the fetus, it's ok!.

But now, the problem is: how do we know if the benefits of the abortion is more valuable than the life of the fetus?

Archivist said:

But our courts can't make decisions based on God's law, they are restricted to the Constitution and the laws of the United States.

That is why women must have the right to choose.

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Jhn 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above:



No, women should not have the right to murder anymore then anyone else should.

Though many people won't accept the salution, God still is regardless the salution. All4one can't make everyone listen to him. But God can and will.

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Praise God for the understanding He has granted you sister. Regardless of what people think or who will follow the problems of this world only have one solution... Not money, not war.. God

My view quite simply is don't have an abortion.

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Praise God!

No, women should not have the right to murder anymore then anyone else should.

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Praise God!

I think life is always a precious thing, and abortion should be avoided. But, when the benefits of the abortion is more valuable than the life of the fetus, it's ok!.

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This is lukewarm though. Where did "thy will be done" disappear to? It has become "my will be done"? Now it is what best benifits a person? How many Christians here would finish the race and die for Christ if the time comes? Our death may not look like the best benifit for ourselves.

Christ First,
Others second,
Us last.

In Christs Love,
All4one

Another question ... if a woman is being abused by her husband and he hits her in the stomach, causing her to abort, who is liable? The husband for the hitting? Or the woman for not leaving someone she knows is an abuser?

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I am going to put my two cents in here. Paul says that a Christian should not leave a non-Christian unless the partner has been unfaithful. He also says that if the non-Christian asks for the divorce then the Christian is able to accept... otherwise if a Christian is married to a non-Christian they are to act and live in such a way that they are a witness.

What if a woman is a drug user and the fetus aborts?

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I consider this abortion all the same. The mother should care for the child while it is inside the womb just as she will when it is outside. If I am not mistaken the bible even says that women should not drink in their prenatel state. I believe smoking is risky as well.

And what does everyone think about the fact that it's ultimately a woman's problem. Men can go on blithely and ignore their children, but a woman is a mother forever. She risks death (yes, death) by carrying a child. Her body is permanently changed by carrying a child. Who has more "right" to make decisions for that fetus?

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I believe the woman has the ultimate right to care for the fetus. Because the fetus and later the baby is incapable of caring for itself the mother, and father, should take on that role. The babys right is to live a healthy and cared for life... a person gave it that right when they conceived it!

Just some things to think about. Personally, I wouldn't have an abortion at this stage in my life. But in college, if I got too drunk and got pregnant, I probably would have seriously considered it, regardless of my religious beliefs.

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Just keep in mind.. it is either right or wrong. There in no "role playing" morality.

Love ya sis,
Just my two cents,
In Christs Love,
All4one

all4one said:

Just keep in mind.. it is either right or wrong. There in no "role playing" morality.

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Greetings.

I am just stating what my mindset probably would have been regardless of my religious convictions. Although I do not consider an embryo a "child", I would have considered my action wrong because I believe all life ... including that of animals ... is worthy of existing and that taking life is wrong in any scenario. But again, that is my choice. I am not advocating prosecuting soldiers for killing enemy combatants. Or the president for ordering them to do so.

With metta,
Zenda

All4one said:

Praise God for the understanding He has granted you sister. Regardless of what people think or who will follow the problems of this world only have one solution... Not money, not war.. God

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God bless you and your family,
Love your sister in Christ,
jesusfreak3786