Interesting question in GT

Someone asked if God has to obey His Own laws, and someone else brought up the point that if He did, He wouldn't kill the wicked. That's breaking the commandment of "Thou shalt not kill."

I thought it was a good question and wondered how we, as Adventists, would answer that question.

I have an answer that satisfies the question for ME personally, but I was curious as to what others here thought.

The commandment does not actually say "Thou shalt not kill" in the original language. The original language says "Thou shalt not MURDER". There is a huge difference. In Proverbs we see the Bible telling us that "There is a time to kill". Clearly we know this from what God Himself told the children of Israel to do to the sin infested population in the land they were to be given. These folks were deep into all sorts of bad things and God told the children of Israel to wipe them out in some cases.

Also if we take this commandment to just killing it would be against this commandment to even eat meat. We know this is not right. God gives us clean meat to eat. Hope this helps.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Very good answer Jim, and somebody in the thread already brought that up.

I agree and I also believe that the wicked kill themselves to some degree. They didn't accept the free gift.

TrustAndObey said:

Someone asked if God has to obey His Own laws, and someone else brought up the point that if He did, He wouldn't kill the wicked. That's breaking the commandment of "Thou shalt not kill."

I thought it was a good question and wondered how we, as Adventists, would answer that question.

I have an answer that satisfies the question for ME personally, but I was curious as to what others here thought.

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Since God's moral law is an emanation of who He is in terms of His character, it isn't possible for Him to break it, since by breaking it He would have to be something other than what He is.

It's our feeble interpretations of His law that cause us to confuse its true meaning. In fact, Jesus made this quite clear in the sermon on the mount, when He had said, "You have heard...; but I say,..."

In other words, it's those who allow everyone else but God to define what His law means that find something wrong with it, or use it in a way that it was never intended to be used. If we would just take the time to really listen to Jesus, and what He has to say about who He is, rather than listening to what fault-finders have to say, God's moral law would make perfect sense to us; and we would find no reason at all to find fault with Him.

The people that seek to find fault with God's law, are merely looking for an excuse to break it. They don't want to live by moral laws; rather, they want to live by situational ethics, which in essence is lawlessness, because it reduces absolute morality to a matter of taste, or opinion.

And so these people attempt to do the same to God. They endeavor to create a god in their own image, a god whose intention isn't to save us from Sin, but to justify us in it.

Such people will find their place to be in the lake of fire if they don't change their perspective on such matters. Jesus spoke of these people in Matt. 7:21-23

woobadooba said:

Since God's moral law is an emanation of who He is in terms of His character, it isn't possible for Him to break it, since by breaking it He would have to be something other than what He is.

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Excellent perspective and a conclusion based on deep meaning and thought.

Good job Woob

The people that seek to find fault with God's law, are merely looking for an excuse to break it. They don't want to live by moral laws; rather, they want to live by situational ethics, which in essence is lawlessness, because it reduces absolute morality to a matter of taste, or opinion.

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Situational ethics are also called "relative" at times. IOW, that is for you but it doesn't apply to me kind of thing. In some cases I think some of these folks wind up in these camps out of frustration in feeling hoplessly unable to keep God's law. It is totally true we can't in our own power but it is very possible with the power of Christ. However, none of us will be saved by keeping any of God's laws. Christ is our only means of salvation.

And so these people attempt to do the same to God. They endeavor to create a god in their own image, a god whose intention isn't to save us from Sin, but to justify us in it.

Such people will find their place to be in the lake of fire if they don't change their perspective on such matters. Jesus spoke of these people in Matt. 7:21-23

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I can see how it is so easy to fall into this trap of this new righteousness by faith movement in the ex-adventists camp. The truths are there and strikingly blatant but the small errors in it leads right back into sin again.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Thank you Lainie for asking the question.

Thank you Jim and Wobbadooba for excellent, logical, well thought out, responses.

Thank you God, for people like Lainie, Jim, and Woobadooba.

Respectfully,
Doc

woobadooba said:

And so these people attempt to do the same to God. They endeavor to create a god in their own image, a god whose intention isn't to save us from Sin, but to justify us in it.

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Woobadooba, Christ died for us while we were yet sinners IN SIN. Not just beings who made an error and slipped up, but outright enemies of God, totally contrary to His will by virtue of the condition passed on to us from Adam, with hearts so decietful we cannot even understand them. THAT IS THE GOOD NEWS OF SALVATION. If He did not justify us, taking us right where we are at, we are all doomed and lost without hope. Calvary has saved us from sin already, and we claim that fact when we accept Christ as our Savior. Chrst's death brings justification for us. Did the human race still have the burden of a fallen sinful nature at the time of His death? Of course. So we ARE justified while still victims of the sinful nature.

At the cross we were saved from the condemnation that sin brings and we became slaves to righteousness. But we will never be completely eradicated of and delivered from the sin condition until glorification.

NightEternal said:

Woobadooba, Christ died for us while we were yet sinners IN SIN.

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But this is not the right response to what I had said. I did not contend with this idea.

The question is: Did Jesus die to save us in our sins, or to save us from Sin?

Calvary has saved us from sin already, and we claim that fact when we accept Christ as our Savior.

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Then what sense is there in telling people to repent of their sins? What sense is there in asking God for forgiveness if we have already been saved from Sin?

Chrst's death brings justification for us.

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What about faith? Doesn't that matter? Can one be justified without it?

But we will never be completely eradicated of and delivered from the sin condition until glorification.

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What aspect of sin are you referring to here, the guilt, power, nature of it, or all three?

woobadooba said:

But this is not the right response to what I had said. I did not contend with this idea.

The question is: Did Jesus die to save us in our sins, or to save us from Sin?

Both.

Then what sense is there in telling people to repent of their sins?

Repentance shows that you are truly sorry for your sin and have authentically accepted the gift of salvation. It shows you want to live in a way that is pleasing to Him out of a love response for the salvation that has been procured and assured.

What sense is there in asking God for forgiveness if we have already been saved from Sin?

Our salvation is not conditional upon our repentance nor how much we grovel and plead at the feet of Christ. That is trying to earn a free gift. Salvation is a gift, not a reward for good works.

Many Adventists just don't sem to grasp this.

What about faith? Doesn't that matter? Can one be justified without it?

Justification is an act that takes place completely outside the individual, an accomplished fact not conditional upon anything but acceptance.

Faith is the trust we have in Christ's righteousness and His merits. Even though we may 'feel' lost or question or doubt our salvation at times, we have faith that Christ has indeed accomplished what he has said He will accomplish. Thus, justification by 'faith'.

What aspect of sin are you referring to here, the guilt, power, nature of it, or all three?

The condemnation, power and guilt of sin was all vanquished at the cross. The sinful nature is changed when we are glorified.

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