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On that belief, Wolseley, I am especially convinced by the Scriptural insights/prophesies that are found and discussed in a blog essay The Church Will Remain; the Papacy Must Fall. Maybe Francis is the pope to fulfill this, and maybe not, but Scripture seems to affirm that it will happen.The Catholic Church will never apostatize like most of the mainstream Protestant denominations have in the past 50 years. We have Christ's word on that. That doesn't mean that many won't be led astray, both laypeople and clergy; we have Christ's word on that, too. But the solid remnant will always remain faithful, until the Lord returns again.
Yup. There was the Augustana Church that was looking for full communion with Rome, but they sadly been dissolved with some members joining the LDS Church.I am happily surprised that he Anglican Ordinariate has fared pretty well under pope Francis. I think they are paving the way for a Lutheran Ordinariate and potentially other Ordinariates in the future. I don't know that pope Francis would be opposed. However these things take a lot of time. I wonder if any Lutherans would be eager to join while pope Francis is in office though, and they might wait for a better successor.
I for one would like to see a Lutheran Ordinariate. I think there are Lutheran ministers and laity that are in the ELCA who really wish they had a respectable place to escape to. And some European Lutherans, particularly in Scandinavia, might be very interested too. @TheLiturgist would probably be interested as well.
Sounds like a typical luke warm Catholic.What came to the forefront of my mind is how confusing our witness can be as Catholics in general. It seems those in the Vatican are not doing much in the way of clarification either. What do you think? Do you think he is just mistaken and needs to research more or does he have a point?
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Speaking at the Leonine Forum in D.C. recently, I was asked a friendly but pointed question: “Why are you not a Catholic?” The questioner noted that in my talk I had expressed a love for the early Church Fathers, admiration for Thomas Aquinas, and an approach to ethics that resonated with John Paul II’s theology of the body.
It’s hard to answer such a question in brief compass at the end of a lecture. Many issues are important in my commitment to Reformed Protestantism: authority, salvation, the nature of the ministry, and the significance of sacraments are just a few of the more obvious. And while I am open to the criticism that Protestantism hasn’t given Mary her due, I believe the Catholic Church has given her a significance that is well beyond anything the Bible would countenance. But above all, at the current moment, Catholicism doesn’t appeal to me because of the man at the top: Pope Francis.
In my answer, I did try to be respectful of my audience, but I could not help but observe that the present pope seems to be nothing more than a liberal Protestant in a white papal robe. And as a Protestant, I am acutely aware of the damage such people do.
Continued below.
Why I Am Not Catholic - First Things
Speaking at the Leonine Forum in D.C. recently, I was asked a friendly but pointed question: “Why are you not a Catholic?” The questioner noted that in my talk...www.firstthings.com
I looked at that essay and I'm not sure what I think. Maybe. I'm not sure.On that belief, Wolseley, I am especially convinced by the Scriptural insights/prophesies that are found and discussed in a blog essay The Church Will Remain; the Papacy Must Fall. Maybe Francis is the pope to fulfill this, and maybe not, but Scripture seems to affirm that it will happen.
Ultimately, we have to trust in God's providence. God only allows evil to happen so a greater good can come out of it.I looked at that essay and I'm not sure what I think. Maybe. I'm not sure.
I also listened to this: WATCH: Ancient Catholic Prophecies Warn of a Pope Who Will Gravely Harm the Church
I was unaware of all of this. It doesn't specify that the papacy will fall, but that we will have a really bad pope and people will suffer because of it. This would have all been easy to ignore 15 years ago. I don't know what to make of it. Maybe I just want to minimize it all.
And sadly that is true. I want it all to be rainbows and happy endings with definite answers. But I cling to God. It’s our only hope. It’s not always easy…Ultimately, we have to trust in God's providence. God only allows evil to happen so a greater good can come out of it.
Yet the end - God's final purpose in Creation - will be "rainbows and happy endings with definite answers":And sadly that is true. I want it all to be rainbows and happy endings with definite answers. But I cling to God. It’s our only hope. It’s not always easy…
There is much turmoil, distress and sorrow in this present (fallen) creation - a much "troubled" world - yet our Lord assures us in a supernatural hope, and teaches "Let not your hearts be troubled." Even if "it's not always easy," it is always true.Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband;
Rev 21:3 and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them;
Rev 21:4 he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."
"A really bad pope and people [suffering and many deserting the Church] because of it" may be "the desolating sacrilege", aka "the abomination of desolation" in the holy place, where, as he has become called, "the holy father" is seated.I looked at that essay and I'm not sure what I think. Maybe. I'm not sure.
I also listened to this: WATCH: Ancient Catholic Prophecies Warn of a Pope Who Will Gravely Harm the Church
I was unaware of all of this. It doesn't specify that the papacy will fall, but that we will have a really bad pope and people will suffer because of it. This would have all been easy to ignore 15 years ago. I don't know what to make of it. Maybe I just want to minimize it all.
Mt 24:15 "So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Mt 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains;..."
I have wondered if Pachamama was the signal of the abomination."A really bad pope and people [suffering and many deserting the Church] because of it" may be "the desolating sacrilege", aka "the abomination of desolation" in the holy place, where, as he has become called, "the holy father" is seated.
And thus, when the sacrileges against the Holy Name, and disordered exaltations reach the final depth, the final humiliation is called for:
Wow....I never thought of that. I've always interpreted the "abomination of desolation" as something taking place in Jerusalem, but you could be right."A really bad pope and people [suffering and many deserting the Church] because of it" may be "the desolating sacrilege", aka "the abomination of desolation" in the holy place, where, as he has become called, "the holy father" is seated.
And thus, when the sacrileges against the Holy Name, and disordered exaltations reach the final depth, the final humiliation is called for:
Do you have any details on that? I found nothing.Yup. There was the Augustana Church that was looking for full communion with Rome, but they sadly been dissolved with some members joining the LDS Church.
It’s on Wikipedia. They still exist outside the United States.Do you have any details on that? I found nothing.
Confidence in understanding a prophesy, I believe, rests upon the kind and source of that uderstanding. If we study prophesies, history, theology, sacred Scripture, writings of saints etc all "academically" so to speak, all reasonably, rationally and logically, and then draw the best conclusions we can, we are confined to natural means to try to understand God who is beyond the natural: He is supernatural and divine. His ways are above our ways; His motives are perfectly united: justice, mercy, love, compassion, truth... all are one and perfect in Him. If He sheds light on HIs mystery and we see something of Him because of Him, we know it "differently" and our confidence is strong knowing He is true and does not deceive.Wow....I never thought of that. I've always interpreted the "abomination of desolation" as something taking place in Jerusalem, but you could be right.
This is why I like having you around, fide. Your insights are thought-provoking and I respect your posts. As my dad would have said, "I'm glad I brung ya."
There are a lot of discussions around the "three days of darkness", references to fire falling from the sky, darkness, pestilence-laden air, and barricading your doors to keep everyone out. When I read accounts of these visions given to Sister Agnes Sasagawa and Blessed Anna Maria Taigi, it's easy to assign a supernatural cause to them, viewing them the same way you view the dramatic visions in Daniel and the Book of Revelation; but considering what's in these prophecies, might not they be referring to the results of a short nuclear war?
Fire falling out of the sky which results in massive death, poisoned air, thick darkness, and warnings to not open your doors or venture outside for any reason whatsoever sounds to me an awful lot like MIRV detonations, fallout, radioactive smoke, and protecting yourself from radiation. Now maybe that's just me, with my Air Force background (they pounded this stuff into our heads over and over---sort of a hyperactive version of "duck and cover", LOL), but it seems plausible to me.
Sorry. I came up dry.It’s on Wikipedia. They still exist outside the United States.
Sorry. I came up dry.
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