Intent

ValleyGal · Apr 9, 2014

How much does intent matter?

If someone accidentally steps on your toe in a checkout lineup, they will typically quickly apologize and you both go on your merry way. You know they didn't do it deliberately and there was no real damage, so it's easy to let it go. After all, they didn't mean to; their intent was certainly not to step on your toes.

What about if someone causes you a LOT of pain and/or damage even if their intent was honorable. What if they "meant" to do well, but their good intent literally paved your way to a destroyed reputation and destroyed family relationships and caused more pain than you could imagine? How much does intent matter then?

Inkachu · Apr 9, 2014

Intent matters a LOT to me. I weigh intention a lot more than actual actions. If someone does something clumsy or annoying or bothersome, but I know they didn't intend to offend me, I don't worry about it.

As for your rather dramatic scenario, VG, lol... I'd have to know more specifics. Sorry. I'm not sure I can imagine a situation like that. Can you give an example?

ValleyGal · Apr 9, 2014

Inkachu said:
Intent matters a LOT to me. I weigh intention a lot more than actual actions. If someone does something clumsy or annoying or bothersome, but I know they didn't intend to offend me, I don't worry about it.

As for your rather dramatic scenario, VG, lol... I'd have to know more specifics. Sorry. I'm not sure I can imagine a situation like that. Can you give an example?

I'll post a real scenario on the ladies' board.

Inkachu · Apr 9, 2014

Okey doke

Autumnleaf · Apr 9, 2014

Everybody has good intent.

Literally.

I was talking to a psychoanalyst who dealt with the worst criminals you can think of and he said they all in their own minds were doing good. How he was able to relate to them so they would open up is he would identify what they were trying to do and he would meet them there. ie they care about their kids even if they beat them. They beat them because, in their sick way, that is how they show they care. Intentions matter, but once you realize how the world works you sort of have to forgive everyone because they're all doing the best they know how.

CounselorForChrist · Apr 10, 2014

Intent does matter. More so what normal intent means to most of us. Such as walking bumping into someone at a crowded concert on accident. Where as if someone (As mentioned above) killed their child and though it was good intent, I'd say otherwise.

When my foot was fractured the guy that did it did not do it on accident. Although I guess it wasn't his intent really, but shoving someone out of the way says "On purpose" more then "accidental". And I think depending on the level of pain, that matters to.

WalksWithChrist · Apr 10, 2014

ValleyGal said:
How much does intent matter?

If someone accidentally steps on your toe in a checkout lineup, they will typically quickly apologize and you both go on your merry way. You know they didn't do it deliberately and there was no real damage, so it's easy to let it go. After all, they didn't mean to; their intent was certainly not to step on your toes.

What about if someone causes you a LOT of pain and/or damage even if their intent was honorable. What if they "meant" to do well, but their good intent literally paved your way to a destroyed reputation and destroyed family relationships and caused more pain than you could imagine? How much does intent matter then?

Intent is everything. I've done so many things wrong without meaning to. And also sometimes I did mean to do them!

I think sometimes when you have a situation where someone wrecks another's life based on good intentions, you find those intentions really weren't all that good after all. The person may have been fooling themself into believing the intentions were good.

I have talked myself out of taking certain actions when I realized my doing so may have been ego more than actually helping. Ego, or a plain old emotional reaction. Some people, I'm sad to report, do not have this ability to self-examine.

ChristianGolfer · Apr 10, 2014

I would say sometimes intent matters and sometimes it doesn't count for anything.

A drunk driver who kills a family in a car accident didn't intend to kill anyone. But his intent is irrelevant. He knew, or should have known, that injuring or killing people was a likely outcome of driving drunk. He was therefore being reckless. The law defines "recklessness" as a "thoughtless disregard for the safety of others."

It's easier to forgive someone who didn't intend to do you harm but whose actions caused harm even though they were being careful not to. For example, a person who crashed into your car after losing control on ice. That can happen to the best drivers.

But someone who has good intentions but doesn't consider how his or her actions might injure someone is harder to forgive.

seeingeyes · Apr 10, 2014

ValleyGal said:
How much does intent matter?

If someone accidentally steps on your toe in a checkout lineup, they will typically quickly apologize and you both go on your merry way. You know they didn't do it deliberately and there was no real damage, so it's easy to let it go. After all, they didn't mean to; their intent was certainly not to step on your toes.

What about if someone causes you a LOT of pain and/or damage even if their intent was honorable. What if they "meant" to do well, but their good intent literally paved your way to a destroyed reputation and destroyed family relationships and caused more pain than you could imagine? How much does intent matter then?

Mmmm. That's a tough one, because the motivation of someone who is killing you "for your own good", is the same as the intent of someone who is killing you because they hate you. It's pride.

Inkachu · Apr 10, 2014

This is getting deep.

HannahT · Apr 10, 2014

When good intentions go downhill? I have found - in my life - it was normally a busy body getting involved in something they had no business being in the middle of. They always know better, and seem to feel that everything should turn out like they have in their minds. You know - to heck with relationship dynamics, history, personality aspects.

ValleyGal · Apr 10, 2014

Here are a couple of other questions.
If intent matters, does it also matter whether they simply think they are right when they are actually not? A friend recently told me about an interview with Ricardo Montalban. He was asked how how you play a villain in a movie, and he said that villains don't know that they're villains for the most part--they think they're RIGHT.so if someone thinks they are doing the right thing, is that the same thing as intent, or is that a cognitive impairment, or is it just stupidity, or....?

And if intent matters, how does that play out in your marriage? Is your automatic impulse to forgive your spouse for everything and anything because you know s/he has goodwill towards you and would never intend to hurt you? Or would at least part of the reconciliation process be necessary? Does this stop resentment from setting in, even for those irritating things your spouse does that s/he knows annoy you but they do it anyway?

CounselorForChrist · Apr 10, 2014

I think when it comes to marriage and forgiveness.. intent matters alot. Are you saying sorry just to say it or do you mean it. Obviously me and my wife are just over a year married and not together in person so the hard part of marriage isn't here yet, but for now when I apologize I do it out of my heart because I love my wife and know its more important to forgive then to have to "win a battle".

Although outside of marriage I am the same way. Whether its my parents, friends, even people on here. I forgive out of my heart, not because I feel I have to.

I think if my wife did something I found annoying regardless of us talking about it, I'd probably be annoyed. I'd still forgive her but if I felt things weren't changing I'd tell her we would need counselling if she didn't care enough to change. But this is depends on what the thing is shes doing. Overall I know my wife is very loving towards me and doesn't want to hurt me. Just as I am with her.

akmom · Apr 10, 2014

Autumnleaf, Counselor and Golfer make good points. Did they have good intentions for the outcome, despite their actions? Or was the action itself unintended?

It's easy to forgive someone who steps on your toe, because they didn't even mean to step on your toe. (The action had no intent.) It's harder to forgive someone who stepped on your toe in a rush to get past you. (The action was intended, but not the outcome.)

Your comparison in the OP isn't exactly similar. You are comparing a purposeful action (with supposedly good intentions for outcome) to an accidental action (with no intent).

So I guess the question is, did the person have the maturity or relevant knowledge to evaluate whether their action was acceptable, regardless of intended outcome? A drunk driver knows not to drive. An ordinary driver who encounters ice may not. (Or maybe the weather conditions were so bad that he did know better than to drive. It's a flexible standard.)

If someone gives you chocolates and you have an allergic reaction, that was good intention but with a bad outcome. But if you had communicated your allergy to them prior, and they just forgot, I don't think that's the same level of "good intention." Just like a drunk driver who is just trying to do someone a favor and give them a lift... it has elements of a good intention, but involves too much "bad" to actually be one in my opinion. I guess truly good intention comes with the criteria of good judgment! I mean, if your intentions are good, wouldn't you evaluate the action before you took it? Wouldn't you be at least that invested in the outcome?

seeingeyes · Apr 10, 2014

ValleyGal said:
Here are a couple of other questions.
If intent matters, does it also matter whether they simply think they are right when they are actually not? A friend recently told me about an interview with Ricardo Montalban. He was asked how how you play a villain in a movie, and he said that villains don't know that they're villains for the most part--they think they're RIGHT.so if someone thinks they are doing the right thing, is that the same thing as intent, or is that a cognitive impairment, or is it just stupidity, or....?

And if intent matters, how does that play out in your marriage? Is your automatic impulse to forgive your spouse for everything and anything because you know s/he has goodwill towards you and would never intend to hurt you? Or would at least part of the reconciliation process be necessary? Does this stop resentment from setting in, even for those irritating things your spouse does that s/he knows annoy you but they do it anyway?

That's where pride comes into it. It's always harder to forgive someone who is not sorry for their actions.

In my marriage, I would be sure to make clear where the line is. If we start expecting our spouse to read our minds and just "know" that we don't like something, we're in trouble.

For example, let's say every time you have a rough day, your husband stops what he's doing and prays real loud, "Lord, please help my wife to quit being such a crab!"

Now, he may very well think that he is doing the "right thing". Heck, he might even think he is doing what you want him to do ("Remember you told me to lead in prayer more often?"). But the only way he's going to learn that this is the wrong thing is if you tell him.

Then if he does it in the future, you can be certain of his intent.

pfcreed · Apr 10, 2014

I think the rules change when your dealing with a relationship, even if its one with your children or spouse or any relative. I feel like a relationship is kind of an emotional "home" its somewhere that you can emotionally relax, feel relatively safe, just like your house. I would need to feel like there is forgiveness there for my mistakes. If not I would always feel like the other person was keeping this tally of all the things ive done wrong.

If a person does you wrong with bad intent and you choose to forgive them, then that says more about you then them. You accept they aren't the greatest person to you. you forgive them for being how they are and you make changes in your life to avoid them or make a place for them or what ever you choose. Ive read the the New Testament and I just started going to church so I cant really quote scripture. But how can we whole heartedly ask for forgiveness and live our life as Christians to receive the gift of forgiveness without giving forgiveness?

If the person had good intentions and there is room in your heart to love them I think you should forgive them, tell them why it hurt you and how much it hurt you and stand strong together against other peoples opinions. Peoples opinions change but love survives death.

mkgal1 · Apr 10, 2014

ChristianGolfer said:
I would say sometimes intent matters and sometimes it doesn't count for anything.

A drunk driver who kills a family in a car accident didn't intend to kill anyone. But his intent is irrelevant. He knew, or should have known, that injuring or killing people was a likely outcome of driving drunk. He was therefore being reckless. The law defines "recklessness" as a "thoughtless disregard for the safety of others."

It's easier to forgive someone who didn't intend to do you harm but whose actions caused harm even though they were being careful not to. For example, a person who crashed into your car after losing control on ice. That can happen to the best drivers.

But someone who has good intentions but doesn't consider how his or her actions might injure someone is harder to forgive.

Great points. I hadn't thought of that sort of situation (a drunk driver). "Reckless" people, ones that have little (or no) regard for any future consequences, I'd say can't really be trusted to see things in the long term (they normally live in the moment)......so I would disregard their claims of "good intentions".

Annessa3 · Apr 11, 2014

Intent does matter to me.

My ex husband did something that he knew would hurt me deeply and he did it intentionally. That was the beginning of the end of our marriage. It didn't matter one iota Why he did it (selfishness); he knew what the consequences would be to me.

Yes, he did have ' the maturity or relevant knowledge to evaluate whether their action was acceptable.'

Yes, I forgave him. But trust was broken there and it always stayed cracked after that.
A

WalksWithChrist · Apr 12, 2014

ValleyGal said:
Here are a couple of other questions.
If intent matters, does it also matter whether they simply think they are right when they are actually not? A friend recently told me about an interview with Ricardo Montalban. He was asked how how you play a villain in a movie, and he said that villains don't know that they're villains for the most part--they think they're RIGHT.so if someone thinks they are doing the right thing, is that the same thing as intent, or is that a cognitive impairment, or is it just stupidity, or....?

And if intent matters, how does that play out in your marriage? Is your automatic impulse to forgive your spouse for everything and anything because you know s/he has goodwill towards you and would never intend to hurt you? Or would at least part of the reconciliation process be necessary? Does this stop resentment from setting in, even for those irritating things your spouse does that s/he knows annoy you but they do it anyway?

The first paragraph goes along with what I was saying. Someone can be deluded and there good intentions are bad because their view of the world is so warped. I can't help but think about my mother when I type that out.

I've done things a few times that were basically wrong that I was not sorry for. I felt bad that things got out of hand, but not for what I did. For example, cleaning up some really old mess and my wife coming along and getting *really* upset at me for potentially throwing away some important papers. Well, the house was a wreck and I was doing what I could to attempt to clean up. I told her at the time that someone had to clean up eventually and I couldn't wait on her any longer to either do it, or at least help me while I did it. My intention was good. I wanted the house to look nice. But I knew it would mean I'd have to risk doing some potential harm. Kind of a lose/lose.

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