Intelligence

[CaseyB]

Is genius really a gift or is it a weakness that people have to overcome in today's world?

To me, genius today is a barrier to faith. The reason for this is not that you have to be stupid to believe in God. The reason is that people with a lack of intelligence are much more easily convinced of things. What this causes is religions full of people who believe in something but can't understand it enough to explain it or answer questions in a way that doesn't make them look like complete nutcases to outsiders. What this also causes is droves of people blindly following corrupt religious leaders who, being selfish and also smarter than the people who follow them, realize this and find ways to manipulate the world in their own favor. This is why I hate the argument that because there are a billion Christians there must be something to it. Its just simply not true based on that fact alone, its a logical fallacy.

Now this lack of intelligence that causes people to become mindless followers is a blessing to those that just so happen to be presented with the truth. They will then follow it with their whole heart and mind with conviction and lose nothing. But, it becomes a curse to those that happen to be presented with lies. They will also then follow that with their whole heart and mind with conviction. Except they don't lose nothing. They lose everything. They become a part of something evil without an evil intention in their own mind.

Having intelligence doesn't make things any better, these people also have an a blessing and a curse. Of course those presented with lies have it easy, there's usually just no logical reason to believe them. Those presented with the truth often are presented the truth by someone in the mindless follower group, because there just are so many of them. This is someone who can't possibly stand up to the questioning of the person with intelligence because religion isn't designed for intelligence its designed for the masses and the masses aren't taught how to intelligently discuss what they believe and why. This is what turns intelligent people off of the validity of religion, often to the point that they won't consider it even an unlikely possibility.

I get that saving 100 or even 1000 less intelligent people is seen as more important than saving 1 intelligent one and that's why the most public preaching is done with the 100 or 1000 people in mind but it's leaving the intelligent ones behind. I honestly think that there are lots of intelligent people open to believing but never end up doing so. I also think that having these intelligent people as allies can only ultimately help the cause, so why aren't we doing anything about it?

 

[timf]

I honestly think that there are lots of intelligent people open to believing but never end up doing so.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:26-27 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

Intelligence and wisdom are two very different things. Intelligence has to do with the physiological ability of the brain to process and store information. It is a genetic characteristic. Wisdom is from God. There is another variable in the equation and that is discernment.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I have found "intelligent" people willing to consider some truth such as problems with government and politics or economics. However, when the cold light of truth is brought closer to "self" such as, "I am a sinner", most lose interest in truth. In my experience "intelligent" people are like anyone else, without the enabling power of God to perceive and desire truth, we have no interest in Jesus (who is truth).

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

 

[paul1149]

Any gift can be destructive until it's placed on the altar. Money, good looks, fame - you name it, and it will work against a person's spiritual interests until it is committed to the Lord's purposes.

Jesus said it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom. The occasion was when the rich young ruler had found it impossible to give everything away and follow Him. Jesus didn't just mean money. We can be rich in many, many different kinds of things. We even can take pride in poverty - that's how deceptive the human heart is! Anything of self that we hold on to is going to hinder the work of God in us.

However, once our gift is offered to the Lord, we will become able to use it organically, in a way that glorifies Him, builds the kingdom and enriches us. There are plenty of very smart ministries out there. They may not be mainstream, but they don't have to be to be fruitful. You don't have to limit yourself to messages that don't challenge you, but keep in mind that the heart is more important than intellectual knowledge to God.

 

[singpeace]

Is genius really a gift or is it a weakness that people have to overcome in today's world?

To me, genius today is a barrier to faith. The reason for this is not that you have to be stupid to believe in God. The reason is that people with a lack of intelligence are much more easily convinced of things. What this causes is religions full of people who believe in something but can't understand it enough to explain it or answer questions in a way that doesn't make them look like complete nutcases to outsiders. What this also causes is droves of people blindly following corrupt religious leaders who, being selfish and also smarter than the people who follow them, realize this and find ways to manipulate the world in their own favor. This is why I hate the argument that because there are a billion Christians there must be something to it. Its just simply not true based on that fact alone, its a logical fallacy.

Now this lack of intelligence that causes people to become mindless followers is a blessing to those that just so happen to be presented with the truth. They will then follow it with their whole heart and mind with conviction and lose nothing. But, it becomes a curse to those that happen to be presented with lies. They will also then follow that with their whole heart and mind with conviction. Except they don't lose nothing. They lose everything. They become a part of something evil without an evil intention in their own mind.

Having intelligence doesn't make things any better, these people also have an a blessing and a curse. Of course those presented with lies have it easy, there's usually just no logical reason to believe them. Those presented with the truth often are presented the truth by someone in the mindless follower group, because there just are so many of them. This is someone who can't possibly stand up to the questioning of the person with intelligence because religion isn't designed for intelligence its designed for the masses and the masses aren't taught how to intelligently discuss what they believe and why. This is what turns intelligent people off of the validity of religion, often to the point that they won't consider it even an unlikely possibility.

I get that saving 100 or even 1000 less intelligent people is seen as more important than saving 1 intelligent one and that's why the most public preaching is done with the 100 or 1000 people in mind but it's leaving the intelligent ones behind. I honestly think that there are lots of intelligent people open to believing but never end up doing so. I also think that having these intelligent people as allies can only ultimately help the cause, so why aren't we doing anything about it?

Casey,
About half way through your argument, I was in agreement with you. But after reading the whole I must say you are wrong that 'so many are mindless followers'.

While God requires us to have the faith of a child, He also requires us to study His Word. In the Greek, the word study means intense study.

Also, Paul, who wrote more than 2/3 of the New Testament was one of the most educated men in that time. In today's standing, he would have several doctorates.

Literally thousands of scientists from places like Columbia, MIT, UCLA, and the like, who have doctorates and accolades and chairs are Christians.

I suggest that you look more closely at this subject. While part of your argument is correct; many will mindlessly follow the wrong person, that in no way groups together the majority of Christians.

Here is one website I recommend:

Reasons To Believe : Where Modern Science & Faith Converge

Read the articles written by these men and women who are boldly and unashamedly Christian.

 

[CaseyB]

Just because all Christians aren't mindless followers, which I didn't say, doesn't mean that there aren't "so many", as I have said. Just as there are so many mindless followers that aren't Christian. Its just fact that that is what most of the people in the world are. Logic and reason are rare commodities.

 

[thesunisout]

Is genius really a gift or is it a weakness that people have to overcome in today's world?

To me, genius today is a barrier to faith.

You are using a lot of worldly standards in your argument, when the standard God gives us is the word of God. The scripture calls people who don't believe in God "fools". Can you be a genius and a fool at the same time?

Faith is a gift from God; people cannot believe not because of how smart they are, but because they suppress the truth:

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Romans 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Romans 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

I agree that more believers should be able to explain why they believe, but what is even more powerful is your personal testimony about what God has done for you:

Luke 8:38 The man from whom the demons had gone begged that he might be with him, but Jesus sent him away, saying,
Luke 8:39 "Return to your home, and declare how much God has done for you." And he went away, proclaiming throughout the whole city how much Jesus had done for him.

Before I got saved, I was a student of philosophy and I loved debating believers. I doubt even the apostle Paul could have convinced me; God had to break me before I would believe. He knows where a person is at and how to reach them. The scripture says to always be ready to give an answer, and this I agree with you about. However, this is no excuse for the so-called geniuses that reject God; they don't reject Him because no one can present a reasonable argument, they reject Him because they love the darkness rather than the light:

John 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
John 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
John 3:21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.

 

[parsley]

Try this logic:

If "The reason is that people with a lack of intelligence are much more easily convinced of things"...

...Then people with a lack of intelligence would believe a higher quantity of things, which means they would take on a broader variety of beliefs. And we know this isn't usually the case. More easily convinced does not necessarily turn into accumulated beliefs.

Followers -- people who trust the judgment of others without scrutiny -- are not necessarily less intelligent. It seems to happen with a lack of wisdom.

And wisdom, we can pray for and God will grant freely.

I'm not trying to refute your idea, but in posting it as a question, you were seeking conversation on it.

People-pleasing weighs heavily in donating to strangers.

 

[parsley]

What this causes is religions full of people who believe in something but can't understand it enough to explain it or answer questions in a way that doesn't make them look like complete nutcases to outsiders.

This does happen, but often it's laziness in research, or desire to arrive at consensus... wishing that unity meant homogeneity, simplifying harmony by getting everyone to agree. Sometimes it stems from narcissism-- thinking of oneself as possessing all truth, and expecting others to follow.

I had a pastor who had previously run a big-city corporation, who used to read a new book every week, and then try to teach what he learned to his congregation -- but did not use discernment in what he taught. It was often trends and spicy findings within Christendom: fascinating things to think through, but not to hand to others as flat truth.

There are important topics in Christianity that might seem under-rational: conviction, the real work of God, and hearing from God.

We experience real interaction with God, and there is no amount of incapacity or daftness that can take that away. If God spoke and we heard, our brain capacity does not change what He said.

We sense the work of His Holy Spirit through us, or find amazing coincidences line up in answer to prayer, and cannot deny these as evidence of God.

The Creator does not value His Mensa children more highly than the ones with brain tumors, chemical imbalances, schizophrenia, infant addictions, and trauma.

His Word states His love for all His children.

I also think that having these intelligent people as allies can only ultimately help the cause, so why aren't we doing anything about it?

There are plenty of theologians, archaeologists, professors, ministers, and authors who have spent their lives working on this cause. But they are not the most aggressive marketers within this information overload.
If we have not sought out their work, it is from our own lack of interest in finding higher learning. Many ministers hold PhD's.

What you are speaking about seems to be a matter of marketing. The loudest Christian voices in society are the ones who purchased air time. Any of us are welcome to donate to quieter causes and more refined teachings, but many of those teachers are content to stay out of the limelight. Theologians are not spending their time making Youtube videos.
Seek, to find.

I have found "intelligent" people willing to consider some truth such as problems with government and politics or economics

We also see these people disagree. White papers, medical journals, academic journals -- these are filled with the opposing research of intelligent people, and peer-reviewed (critiqued and sometimes refuted). Intelligence does not guarantee that one will arrive at the truth.

 

[asiyreh]

That's beautiful Parsley. Amen bro.

 

[Bible2]

parsley said in post 8:

Intelligence does not guarantee that one will arrive at the truth.

Good point (and great post).

The Bible shows that what guarantees one will arrive at the truth is divine election.

The elect are those individuals who were chosen (elected) and predestinated by God before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4-11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13), before they were born (Romans 9:11-24), to become initially saved at some point during their lifetime (Acts 13:48b). This initial salvation is possible only because of Jesus' sacrifice (Romans 3:25-26), which was also foreordained by God before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8; 1 Peter 1:19-20).

Everyone on his own is wholly corrupt (Romans 3:9-12), and so it's impossible for people on their own to ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31; 1 John 5:13) through their own will (Romans 9:16, John 1:13, John 6:65) or their own intellect (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Unsaved people can't understand the gospel (1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 1:18) because only initially saved people, who have received the miraculous gift of some measure of God's own Spirit, can understand it (1 Corinthians 2:11-16).

The nonelect can't ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved, even when they're shown the truth (John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42), because the ability to believe in Jesus and the gospel comes only to the elect (Acts 13:48b) wholly by God's grace as a miraculous gift from God (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65; 1 Corinthians 3:5b, Romans 12:3b, Hebrews 12:2) as the elect read (or hear) God's Word the Bible (Romans 10:17, Acts 13:48, Acts 26:22-23), just as the ability to repent comes only as a miraculous gift from God (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18). Satan blinds the minds of unbelievers so that on their own they can't repent and acknowledge the truth of God's Word (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:25-26).

 

[David Sylvian]

The people of the world today are not as smart as the people of God. Angels are light years more intelligent then human beings.

Love is where intelligence comes from, profound love, profound intelligence. God is a genius far beyond the reckoning of man, and God is everywhere.

It can be difficult for "children of light" to deal with mankind, mankind is cunning and deceptive in shallow ways... but they destroy their intelligence with pride, with the arrogance of knowing when, in fact, they do not know anything at all.

 

[forGod1]

People sometimes tell me I'm smart.. and I always think, well, I thank God for making me that way. But you gotta imagine Heaven.. there are people of all kinds.. all kinds of people that are better at this, or worse at that.. so much culture, so much difference. Heaven is an awesome place.

 

[parsley]

People sometimes tell me I'm smart.. and I always think, well, I thank God for making me that way.

Good point! Humbling oneself is easier than letting the world, or God, do it for us.