Inseparable - Salvation, Pentecostalism

Always in His Presence · Apr 7, 2023

An aside:

Let's keep in mind, one of the greatest Evangelist of our day, who led countless millions to Christ - who ministered to Presidents and leaders of nations was Rev. Billy Graham -

A Southern Baptist who had not been Baptized in the Holy Spirit

rocknanchor · Apr 7, 2023

hislegacy said:
My current position is one of anticipation for you to answer the question I have repeatedly asked and you seem to be purposely ignoring.

Uh-oh, you should have understood that very quote of mine you used. I like a straight yes or no just like any reasonable thinker, this is not one of those times.

In other words, it can be either yes OR no, which will always be knowledge reserved for God and or, whomever is gifted to receive it. But, i'll rephrase in-brief comment.

Per you're question; ", , can a person be saved and not Baptized in the Holy Spirit?"

Yes. Just as I spoke of in my reply. If baptized subsequent to receiving Christ.

Now let me ask that same question in this manner; Can a person be saved and Baptized in the Holy Spirit consecutively? This again can be - Yes.

So, your question indeed could get a yes or no answer if, the response came from one gifted in discerning of spirits, or, word of knowledge. But, no matter who is present, in the absence of this understanding, it comes down to a proud spirit who maintains God cannot bless an individual with salvation and H.S. baptism consecutively.

Always in His Presence · Apr 7, 2023

rocknanchor said:
So, your question indeed could get a yes or no answer if, the response came from one gifted in discerning of spirits, or, word of knowledge. But, no matter who is present, in the absence of this understanding, it comes down to a proud spirit who maintains God cannot bless an individual with salvation and H.S. baptism consecutively.

The answer is plain is scripture. Romans 10: 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

A person can in fact receive Christ and then be Baptized in the Holy Spirit Consecutively, bunt not concurrently.

Oseas · Apr 7, 2023

GOD anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: to Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believes in Him shall receive remission of sins. Then, while Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify GOD.

Then answered Peter; Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Spirit as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized ... in the water, course. Acts 10:38-48.

rocknanchor · Apr 8, 2023

Oseas said:
Then answered Peter; Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Spirit as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized ... in the water, course.

Of course. Water baptism or, Spirit baptism or, the baptism of His death, it is all by the will of - Christ Jesus'.

rocknanchor · Apr 8, 2023

hislegacy said:
A person can in fact receive Christ and then be Baptized in the Holy Spirit Consecutively, bunt not concurrently.

Well yes, up to now I have said this could be in a very quick but orderly fashion, just as the King James puts it "Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" But, due to the many other translation's use, including the NKJV; "“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”, I think it's safe to compile the two as a sure possibility of being one single task of the Holy Spirit, the baptism of the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation, glory to God!

Oseas · Apr 8, 2023

rocknanchor said:
Of course. Water baptism or, Spirit baptism or, the baptism of His death, it is all by the will of - Christ Jesus'.

Water baptism - baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Spirit baptism - baptism of the Holy Spirit and gift of tongues

the baptism of His death; Did you mean Mark 10:38? If so, I would say God's people will go through this baptism in the last week, week 70th-Daniel 9:24-, to start in this current decade.

it is all by the will of - Christ Jesus'.

rocknanchor · Apr 9, 2023

Oseas said:
the baptism of His death; Did you mean Mark 10:38?

Good off-topic questions are sometimes the best kind. God knows to what extent they may be assoc. But I wasn't pointing to that specific confirmation in V-39. I was referencing the broader Romans 6:3.

Or are you unaware that as many as have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

Oseas · Apr 9, 2023

rocknanchor said:
Good off-topic questions are sometimes the best kind. God knows to what extent they may be assoc. But I wasn't pointing to that specific confirmation in V-39. I was referencing the broader Romans 6:3.

Thank you for your reply. Yes, brother, GOD is Omnipresent, speaking of baptisms it is possible He intended to bring to remembrance the baptism by which many will be baptized as JESUS prophesied in Matthew 24:15-22, having He referred to the last week, week 70th, the last seven years of this current evil world, and "except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened".
We must be ready for this baptism, because the prophecy of JESUS will literally be fulfilled in near days ahead, still in this decade.

Jewish Calendar - How to explain the difference of exactly 240 years in the Jewish calendar?

The Jewish calendar is the type of calendar that the Jewish people use for counting time and commemorating birthdays, festivities, weddings, deaths, religious celebrations and other solemnities. According to the Hebrews, the years are counted from what they believe to be the creation of Adam...

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rocknanchor said:
Or are you unaware that as many as have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

Oh yes, it's a great mystery, being baptized into JESUS's death, and buried with Him by baptism into death, so our old man was/is crucified with Him. Great mystery, the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should serve sin no more. He that is dead is freed from sin.
Therefore, if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death( if it died, it bringeth forth much fruit), we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection, like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father.

So, we should walk in newness of life.

Philippians 3:20-21
20 Our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.

God bless

rocknanchor · Apr 9, 2023

So eloquent to voice as you do, but I simply must ask, ,

Oseas said:
We must be ready for this baptism, because the prophecy of JESUS will literally be fulfilled in near days ahead, still in this decade.

, , since I continue to watch and pray in readiness, the Lord is at hand, still, I must ask, if the Lord tarry till the last day of "this decade", isn't that a little too close to competing to be a time and day setter?

Oseas · Apr 10, 2023

rocknanchor said:
So eloquent to voice as you do, but I simply must ask, ,

, , since I continue to watch and pray in readiness, the Lord is at hand, still, I must ask, if the Lord tarry till the last day of "this decade", isn't that a little too close to competing to be a time and day setter?

Thank you for your reply, brother.

Excellent question, brother.

Yes, I agree with you, in my vision the last day of this decade would be a day setter. In his prophetic message Daniel said: Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Dan.12:v.12 - Yeah, day 1335, the Ineffable, Wonderful, Indescribable, Unspeakable day, the day1.335. Hallelujaaah!!!

It's impossible to say what day will be Day 1335. If we count from today, day 1335 will fall in day "X", if we count from tomorow, day 1335 will fall in day "Y", and so on. As I understand it by the Word of GOD, day 1335 will start counting from the beginning of the second half of the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:27.

1 Corinthians 15:24-27KJV
24 But the END cometh, when He shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father; when He shall have put down all Rule(rs) and all Authority and Power.

25 For He must reign, till He hath put ALL enemies under His feet. - Hallelujaaah!!!

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under Him.

Revelation 11: 15 to 18 (Take a look)
15 - ... The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.
18 - And the NATIONS were (will be) angry, and thy wrath is come, ...

Based in the biblical Chronology, we are living within the first century of the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the LORD's Day. He is at door. At midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him. Midnight points the turn of a new Day, the END of a Day (of a millennium) and the beginning of a new Day (of a new millennium) simultaneously. We cannot forget God's clock does not stop, yeah, never stop, every thousand years there is a turn of Day, as happened in Eden-Genesis 3:8-10. Furthermore, midnight is a moment of great darkness and dangers, we need not only lamp, but also of oil, if the lamp go out in the darkness it will be terrible, very terrible, it's the oil prevents the lamp from going out.

May our Lord GOD bless us and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen

rocknanchor · Apr 11, 2023

Oseas said:
May our Lord GOD bless us and keep us, and give us His protection

Amen, for Thine is the power'.

Oseas said:
If we count from today, day 1335 will fall in day "X", if we count from tomorow, day 1335 will fall in day "Y", and so on. As I understand it by the Word of GOD, day 1335 will start counting from the beginning of the second half of the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:27.

I don't deny there IS wisdom surrounding the mentions, which are many. Our Lord himself dealt with it to some extent. Then there was Paul with his manifold 'revelations' which surely could have extracted an excellent springboard, interesting in that Apostolic tradition though, as he chose not to,

For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him having been crucified. (1 Corinthians 2:2)

Oseas · Apr 11, 2023

rocknanchor said:
Amen, for Thine is the power'.

I don't deny there IS wisdom surrounding the mentions, which are many. Our Lord himself dealt with it to some extent. Then there was Paul with his manifold 'revelations' which surely could have extracted an excellent springboard, interesting in that Apostolic tradition though, as he chose not to,

For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him having been crucified. (1 Corinthians 2:2)

It's true. The main point of Paul was not about the end of the times, for example, in his second epistle to the Church of Thessalonians he warned the brothers, saying: 2Thes.2:3-6: -

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away FIRST, and that MAN of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God -JERUSALEM- , shewing himself that he is God. (This prophecy is linked to the last week, week 70th, Daniel 9:27, the last seven years of this current evil and devilish world)

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. (In my understand, or even in mine vision, this time arrived. Let us get ready, let us be ready for this terrible event henceforward, or near days to come-as is written in Matthew 24:15)

Regarding 1 Corinthians 2:2,
in fact the main point of Paul was to develop the Church of the Lord preaching the Gospel of GOD's Kingdom, ministring the GOD's people and managing the growth of the body of Christ, he went even to the Spain to preach the Gospel.
Only God is capable of evaluating the greatness of the dedication and detachment of Paul's work for the sake of the kingdom of GOD, catalyzing and influencing the brothers to form a single body around Christ' NAME, formating and developing the body of Christ, that is the true and pure Church of the Lord.

Actually, Paul sacrificed himself for the Church. How about us now in the last week, in the last seven years of this world, defending our faith in the face of the wrath of the nations due to the establishment of the Kingdom of God? - Revelation 11:18 combined with Luke 20:35-36, among other biblical references -.

And Daniel 2:44-45
44 And in the days of these kings shall the GOD of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great GOD hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

In my understanding, or even in mine vision: Celebration of the Lamb's marriage? ONLY AFTER THE WAR AND JUDGMENT OF BABYLON-Revelation 18.

Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon

Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - PUT THIS IN YOUR MIND ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - THE RED SEA AND THE RED DRAGON ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of...

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In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him), and LORD of lords
Amen

rocknanchor · Apr 11, 2023

Oseas said:
It's true. The main point of Paul was not about the end of the times, for example, in his second epistle to the Church of Thessalonians he warned the brothers, saying: 2Thes.2:3-6: -

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away FIRST, and that MAN of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God -JERUSALEM- , shewing himself that he is God. (This prophecy is linked to the last week, week 70th, Daniel 9:27, the last seven years of this current evil and devilish world)

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. (In my understand, or even in mine vision, this time arrived. Let us get ready, let us be ready for this terrible event henceforward, or near days to come-as is written in Matthew 24:15)

Regarding 1 Corinthians 2:2,
in fact the main point of Paul was to develop the Church of the Lord preaching the Gospel of GOD's Kingdom, ministring the GOD's people and managing the growth of the body of Christ, he went even to the Spain to preach the Gospel.
Only God is capable of evaluating the greatness of the dedication and detachment of Paul's work for the sake of the kingdom of GOD, catalyzing and influencing the brothers to form a single body around Christ' NAME, formating and developing the body of Christ, that is the true and pure Church of the Lord.

Actually, Paul sacrificed himself for the Church. How about us now in the last week, in the last seven years of this world, defending our faith in the face of the wrath of the nations due to the establishment of the Kingdom of God? - Revelation 11:18 combined with Luke 20:35-36, among other biblical references -.

And Daniel 2:44-45
44 And in the days of these kings shall the GOD of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great GOD hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

In my understanding, or even in mine vision: Celebration of the Lamb's marriage? ONLY AFTER THE WAR AND JUDGMENT OF BABYLON-Revelation 18.

Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon

Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - PUT THIS IN YOUR MIND ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - THE RED SEA AND THE RED DRAGON ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of...

purebibleforum.com

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him), and LORD of lords
Amen

I would not attempt to reduce your efforts here. For,

"Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein, , "

For though the remarks over the purpose of this thread have assumed straying thought, there is a parallel that has formed by way of soft refusals with the Spirit's work verses following the Apostle's tradition. Yes, knowing Jesus Christ has to do with His return. This contains commentary. My concern is the possibility of distraction from the Apostle's 'determination' which we are to follow. Distraction rises when we introduce questions rather than godly edification.

Moderators may take clean-up actions here for not starting a new thread concerning end-times.

Oseas · Apr 12, 2023

rocknanchor said:
I would not attempt to reduce your efforts here. For,

"Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein, , "

For though the remarks over the purpose of this thread have assumed straying thought, there is a parallel that has formed by way of soft refusals with the Spirit's work verses following the Apostle's tradition. Yes, knowing Jesus Christ has to do with His return. This contains commentary. My concern is the possibility of distraction from the Apostle's 'determination' which we are to follow. Distraction rises when we introduce questions rather than godly edification.

Moderators may take clean-up actions here for not starting a new thread concerning end-times.

Greetings in Christ JESUS

I very much appreciated your kind reply. Thank you very much.
I understand your concerning about the main point of the topic, oh, you are right.
It was very nice to talk with you.

Allow me to ask you: Is IN abbreviation Illinois? for Notre Dame calls France, but I suppose it might be the name of a neighborhood or a town in Illinois.

I live in Joinville (also French name), State Santa Catarina-SC, south of Brazil, bordering Argentina.

May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, we are living perilous times.

rocknanchor · Apr 12, 2023

Oseas said:
Allow me to ask you: Is IN abbreviation Illinois?

No thank you, it is shortened for Indiana. Furthermore in very close proximity of Notre Dame University.

The Lord grant you grace and peace in His precious name!

Oseas · Apr 12, 2023

rocknanchor said:
The Lord grant you grace and peace in His precious name!

So be it,
for both of us.
Amen

rocknanchor · May 30, 2023

hislegacy said:
A person can in fact receive Christ and then be Baptized in the Holy Spirit Consecutively, bunt not concurrently.

rocknanchor said:
Well yes, up to now I have said this could be in a very quick but orderly fashion, just as the King James puts it "Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" But, due to the many other translation's use, including the NKJV; "“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”, I think it's safe to compile the two as a sure possibility of being one single task of the Holy Spirit, the baptism of the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation, glory to God!

Still, the conclusion is NOT tempered, but tampered apart. For one cannot say they are inseparable nor separable. For why did the Spirit ask in the first place?

“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

He didn't offer the question in vain and isn't about to start. So, both your leading position here as well as the title of this thread, may - or - may not be correct. Both scenarios are entirely possible.

Oseas · Jun 1, 2023

My parents were members of the Evangelical Christian Church in Brazil developed in the country by Missionary Mrs. Anne Andrews, sent to evangelize Brazil by the Church of Canada in the years 1906. My parents got married in 1928, I was born in 1936, in the 1930-1940s, my parents attended that Church, a Church that did not believe in the baptism with the Holy Spirit and manifestation in strange languages, as in Pentecost, there was no mention of this baptism in that Church.

In the year I was born, my mother was baptized with the Holy Spirit as if she were raptured, and this fact shook the Church, whose doctrine of the baptism with the Holy Spirit was not accepted, there was no mention of this divine operation in the Church, much less the Pastor preached this divine operation in the Church.
As a result, the environment became unfavorable for my parents in that church. So, my father and my father's brother, my uncle, they created a Pentecostal family evangelical movement and started a work of evangelization and it prospered a lot, they even built a temple with the name Church of God, and they did baptisms in a river in the city , city of Jacareí-State of São Paulo. Later, due to the growth of the Pentecostal movement, my parents decided to hand over the already well-developed work of the Church of God to the Assembly of God, with Headquarters in the Belém neighborhood, capital of São Paulo, which was Pentecostal, and already well-rooted throughout the country.

Currently have several AD Temples in the city of Jacareí, with thousands of members, but in fact was started as I above I wrote, on my mother's baptism with the Holy Spirit, in a Church that did not believe in this divine operation.

I posted a testimony about my family in Hello from Brazil

rocknanchor · Aug 7, 2024

To expand on the connection of “salvation" or eternal life and Pentecostalism mentioned in the OP, short of the Apostles laying on of hands, their Apostolic blessing of the Cross is: "death works in us, but life in you." (2 Cor. 4:12).

The Apostle’s emphasis concerning suffering for themselves is engrained in death as in “always” (v-10) at work. Question for us who follow them as they “follow Christ” is, we all share in that adversity, “Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.” So, what life appears parallel to eternal life? There is none spoken. For it is not only concerning the life to come, but a combined present context as well,

“, , you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.” (John 5:40)

Present life and eternal life are spoken as one life. I had supposed most have this understanding.

“Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.” (John 17:3)

So why did the Apostle increscent this ancient (v-12) impartation of one life?

“Very good interpreters think these words a smart ironical expression, by which the apostle reflecteth upon a party in this church, who from his sufferings concluded against the truth of his doctrine, or his favour with God; and for themselves, because of their immunity and freedom from such sufferings. Others think the sense this, our death is your life; our sufferings are your spiritual advantage.” - Matthew Poole

Still, together with eternal life and the Holy Spirit from God at Pentecost,

“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, , “Be saved from this perverse generation.” (Acts 2:38, 40)

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