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Not sure how I missed this the first time around. But what the heck, let's have at it now.There are, unfortunately, some fringe denominations within Protestantism which, oddly IMO, mimic the practices of Traditional Churches.
Not sure how I missed this the first time around. But what the heck, let's have at it now.
Do you consider the Southern Baptist Convention to a fringe denomination in the US?
Interesting.The Southern Baptist Convention is not so much a unified denomination, but an amalgamation of churches which only seem to have adult baptism as their common denominator. I have personally encountered Southern Baptist churches at various ends of theological spectra, such as Calvinism (some Southern Baptist churches fully subscribe to the Sovereign Grace movement and others are so extremely Arminian as to make genuine Arminians blush with embarrassment). There is truly an amazing amount of diversity within the Southern Baptist Convention.
...and it is completely unscriptural. It's harmless, yes, but I would think that Christians who constantly criticize harmless practices of the older Christian churches would be embarrassed to be making up a pseudo-sacrament of their own.A Baby Dedication is a ceremony in which believing parents, and sometimes entire families, make a commitment before the Lord to submit a child to God's will and to raise that child according to God's Word and God's ways. Many Christian churches practice Baby Dedication instead of Infant Baptism.
At the least, I should anticipate that the explanation would focus on the parents bringing the child to church and making promises about or on behalf of the child, but instead you describe the baby as having "received" the non-sacrament himself as though it were an alternate Baptism. There is, in fact, nothing for him to have received.Non-denominational "Bible Churches" have adopted "Baby Dedication" services.
My infant #5 son received same!
Interesting.
But, with respect, that isn't really what I asked.
What I asked was "Do you consider the Southern Baptist Convention to a fringe denomination in the US?" Is your answer "yes"? Or is your answer "no"?
...and it is completely unscriptural. It's harmless, yes, but I would think that Christians who constantly criticize harmless practices of the older Christian churches would be embarrassed to be making up a pseudo-sacrament of their own.
And this verified my point:
At the least, I should anticipate that the explanation would focus on the parents bringing the child to church and making promises about or on behalf of the child, but instead you describe the baby as having "received" the non-sacrament himself as though it were an alternate Baptism. There is, in fact, nothing for him to have received.
Then I'd recommend reading it again. I realize your specialty is avoiding questions but you could at least try answering the question.I don't understand your question. It is grammatically flawed. Do I consider the SBC to a fringe denomination in the US makes as much sense as my asking you if you consider the RCC in a nutshell in Europe.
The reference to Luke 2:22 is according to the covenant between God and Israel for the firstborn male, in that he be circumcised.A Baby Dedication is a ceremony in which believing parents, and sometimes entire families, make a commitment before the Lord to submit a child to God's will and to raise that child according to God's Word and God's ways. Many Christian churches practice Baby Dedication instead of Infant Baptism.
(NOTE: The ritual water baptism of unknowing children to wash away their "original sin" arises from false RCC doctrine)
REF: Why Some Churches Practice Baby Dedication Instead of Infant Baptism
Deuteronomy 6:4-7(NASB)
4 “Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our (TRI-UNE) God, the Lord is one! (in spiritual essence and nature)
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
6 These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.
7 You (fathers?) shall teach them diligently to your sons
and shall talk of them when you sit in your house
and when you walk by the way
and when you lie down
and when you rise up.
diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.
An Example of Baby Dedication in Scripture
Hannah, a barren woman, prayed for a child:
And she made a vow, saying,
"O LORD Almighty, if you will only look upon your servant's misery and remember me,
and not forget your servant but give her a son,
then I will give him to the LORD for all the days of his life, and no razor will ever be used on his head."
(1 Samuel 1:11, NIV)
When God answered Hannah's prayer by giving her a son, she remembered her vow, presenting Samuel to the Lord:
"As surely as you live, my lord, I am the woman who stood here beside you praying to the LORD.
I prayed for this child, and the LORD has granted me what I asked of him.
So now I give (dedicate!)him to the LORD.
For his whole life he will be given over to the LORD."
And he (Samuel) worshiped the LORD there.
(1 Samuel 1:26-28, NIV)
What is baby dedication? Is child / baby dedication biblical?
Luke 2:22 begins the account of Mary and Joseph taking Jesus to the temple after forty days in order to dedicate Him to the Lord. This was slightly more involved since it involved a (sin) sacrifice (by the parents...Mary knew she was a sinner!), but once again this ceremony did not indicate any level of salvation.
The rite is intended to be a public statement by the parents that they will train their children in the Christian faith and seek to instill that faith in them. The congregation often responds through responsive reading or some other method to affirm that they, as a church family, will also seek to encourage the parents to bring up the child in the faith. There is no implied salvation in the ceremony, and it varies from church to church.
Child / baby dedication is not one of the two ordinances—believer's baptism and the Lord’s Supper—required of Christians in the New Testament.
Then I'd recommend reading it again. I realize your specialty is avoiding questions but you could at least try answering the question.
Are you saying that Jesus' circumcision was only symbolic? Is Jesus' perfect obedience to the Law on our behalf really actual or only symbolic? Can a symbolic act actually fulfill the Law?In the Old Testament, they had circumcision. Available only to males, it didn't save anyone, and at the time, was a symbol of what should happen in the heart - more a symbol for the people and parents, and to the baby only later when he could understand. This one is fulfilled in Christ, so is not required for believers anymore.
I guess that depends on your definition of baptism. I agree that the mere human act of applying water and saying some words cannot save anyone. But if God chooses to work through the water and the word to save, can he not do so? Is it we who inwardly circumcise our hearts? Is it we who unite with the death and resurrection of Christ? We cannot do these things, but God working through simple water with the Word as he has promised in scripture to do can certainly actually accomplish all these things and more through the power of his Word.In the New Testament, we received baptism, this time for both males and females, but again, not saving anyone of itself, and a symbol of what should take place in our hearts - being immersed in Christ.
A Law view of baptism will look for law-centered answers to the question of how baptism should be performed. A Gospel-centered view of baptism looks not at requirements and processes but simply at the fact that God has promised to act to save sinners through the application of water with the Word, as clearly stated in scripture.Some agree with believer's baptism, others with baptizing all the members of the believer's household, and both probably have some scriptural support. But as baptism (immersion) of babies can be dangerous, christening or sprinkling became the practice (not supported in scripture to my knowledge).
So why deprive your child of the benefits God gives to the baptized in favor of performing some man-made ceremony which even those participating in do not believe actually accomplishes anything spiritually real?Those who don't believe scripture supports sprinkling in place of baptism may practice dedication, as it removes what is considered an unnecessary tradition (i.e. the sprinkling), and involves a commitment from the parents and congregation for the upbringing of the child, and seeks God's assistance in the process. While the dedication tradition may have weak scriptural support, the praying and commitment to disciple the child do not.
Are you saying that Jesus' circumcision was only symbolic? Is Jesus' perfect obedience to the Law on our behalf really actual or only symbolic? Can a symbolic act actually fulfill the Law?
I guess that depends on your definition of baptism. I agree that the mere human act of applying water and saying some words cannot save anyone. But if God chooses to work through the water and the word to save, can he not do so? Is it we who inwardly circumcise our hearts? Is it we who unite with the death and resurrection of Christ? We cannot do these things, but God working through simple water with the Word as he has promised in scripture to do can certainly actually accomplish all these things and more through the power of his Word.
A Law view of baptism will look for law-centered answers to the question of how baptism should be performed. A Gospel-centered view of baptism looks not at requirements and processes but simply at the fact that God has promised to act to save sinners through the application of water with the Word, as clearly stated in scripture.
So why deprive your child of the benefits God gives to the baptized in favor of performing some man-made ceremony which even those participating in do not believe actually accomplishes anything spiritually real?
Yes, we should all be in constant, fervent prayer for our children, for their growth in faith and for their safety and wellbeing. Additionally, if it was in your power to give them a gift of immeasurable spiritual worth according to the clear promise of God, why would you withhold it from them?
It marked him as a descendant of Abraham and an heir of the promises God made to him. It united him with God's chosen people, so that ultimately he would unite all of God's chosen people from all nations in himself.So, what did Jesus' circumcision accomplish for Him?
As part of the Great Exchange, Christ who had no sin was circumcised into our sinful flesh, under the law, so that in Christ our flesh would be circumcised unto God through the law of grace.Did it remove the stain of Adam's sin from Him?
Is God circumcised? Circumcision was the sign and seal of the Abrahamic covenant. It didn't make him more God but it did make him more Israel, and more THAN Israel, as the ultimate and true heir of the promises of God.Did it make Him any more God than He had been at birth?
Yes, this was also part of the reason. It was part of his perfect active obedience to the law of God, both proving and preserving his unique status as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.Did it prove to God that He was obedient?
If they could initiate infants into the Old Testament Covenant Church of Israel via circumciscion, they could certainly initiate Christians into the New Covenant Church---the New Israel by baptism. 'Dedication' makes no sense. If baptism is as Scripture says "now saves you" and is for 'the remission of sin' as St Peter says in Acts, why not enjoin a baby unto the Body of Christ? There isn't any reason that I can see.
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