infant baptism

[tagyourit]

How would a Pastor in the LCMS handle a situation where someone starts to visit the church and they end up liking it enough to become regular attendees.

They have several children ages 18 months to 7 years, none of them baptized.

If they wanted to join, is there a requirement or stern recommendation at least, to have their children baptized?

All of them? Or only the little ones? What about the 7 year old? Is he/she too old now?

EDIT: I'm trying to compare/contrast the PCA and the LCMS with regards to baptism. I have a friend that attends a PCA church and he has several children ages 12 months to 7 years. The parents are now members of that church, they are professing believers, members in good standing, all that. Now the parents are working through getting their children baptized. But he is being told that "it depends" if you are older. See my post on page #2 as well.

 

[alexnbethmom]

well, i can tell you, i go to an LCMS church, and in order for me to become a member, i had to be confirmed - neither of my kids were baptized, and they were 11 and 7 when they got baptized....and in fact, a friend of mine who just became a member (went through adult instruction and got confirmed like i did) also had her 2 kids baptized (this was just like a month or two ago) and they are 7 and 8....

no clue if that helps....

 

[Zecryphon]

How would a Pastor in the LCMS handle a situation where someone starts to visit the church and they end up liking it enough to become regular attendees.

They have several children ages 18 months to 7 years, none of them baptized.

If they wanted to join, is there a requirement or stern recommendation at least, to have their children baptized?

All of them? Or only the little ones? What about the 7 year old? Is he/she too old now?

The best way to handle this situation would be to talk with the pastor of the particular church your visiting and see what he says. I'll have to check the hymnal and see what it says about this. My guess right now would be that they would baptize the children as soon as possible and then recommend that all those interested in joining the church start confirmation or adult member classes, depending on the age of the person who wishes to become a member.

 

[tagyourit]

It does help, thank you.

The children will not participate in communion until after they've been catechized, correct? Or, was there a profession of faith prior to their baptism?

Just trying to figure out how it "works" in the LCMS.

I'm in the PCA and we have a family with a child that will be 7 in a month and I think the session's approach is that she is probably too old for baptism, but old enough to look for a profession/confession.

 

[Tangible]

When we joined out LCMS church we had all of our children except the oldest baptized. The younger 4 ranged in age from 2 to 9 and the oldest had already been baptized in our former Baptist church. When our new baby was born she was baptized at four days old.

 

[alexnbethmom]

kids in the LCMS have to go through pre-catechism and then 2 years of catechism before they are allowed to participate in the Lord's Supper. typically kids are confirmed in their 8th grade year (or at least that's how it is at my church).

7 is absolutely NOT too old for baptism - i was baptized at 40 years old!! IMO, the 7 year old should be baptized, for sure.....pre-confirmation classes don't typically start until 5th grade....

 

[Studeclunker]

It does help, thank you.

The children will not participate in communion until after they've been catechized, correct? Or, was there a profession of faith prior to their baptism?

Just trying to figure out how it "works" in the LCMS.

I'm in the PCA and we have a family with a child that will be 7 in a month and I think the session's approach is that she is probably too old for baptism, but old enough to look for a profession/confession.

Age really doesn't matter for baptism with the Lutheran Church (for new members). Your Pastor will likely push to see the children are baptised as soon as possible as that's the tradition. However, I seriously doubt that he will insist on it.

No, Lutherans do not commune those who don't understand the nature of the elements and aren't properly prepared to take the Lord's body and blood. Yes, after completing the Catechism process, the young people usually give a presentation that ammounts to a statement of faith, then take their first communion. It's the same for adult converts. After all, what do you think the new believer's classes are?

Having your children baptised is no longer a requirement. It hasn't been for a good many years. All the same, getting one's children baptised as soon as possible is still the norm. After all, sealing them with the mark of Christ is important too.

 

[porterross]

Too old to be baptized? There is no such thing as too young or too old, but why any parent who understood enough about Scripture to desire membership in a confessional Lutheran church would not want their children baptized (assuming they hadn't been) doesn't make much sense.

 

[Zecryphon]

It does help, thank you.

The children will not participate in communion until after they've been catechized, correct? Or, was there a profession of faith prior to their baptism?

Just trying to figure out how it "works" in the LCMS.

I'm in the PCA and we have a family with a child that will be 7 in a month and I think the session's approach is that she is probably too old for baptism, but old enough to look for a profession/confession.

That is correct, they will not be able to receive the Sacrament of the Altar aka Communion until they have completed Catechism classes. I've never been baptized in the Lutheran church, nor have I seen one done, so I don't know if a profession of faith precedes Baptism. I do know that a profession of faith will be part of the ceremony where they are installed as members into the church. I had to give one, saying I agreed with the teachings of the church, Luther's Small Catechism, etc. You're never too old for Baptism. If that's the PCA's position, I don't understand the thinking behind that position. Could you explain?

 

[QuiltAngel]

No one is "too old" to be baptized in the Lutheran church. Now many Pastors will probably talk with older children about what baptism is about.

The children would then attend catechism classes when they are in the age group that attends. Different congregations do it differently, but usually 3 or more years with confirmation happening near the end of 8th grade. At this point, they would be receiving communion.

Adults and teens would need to take an adult catechism class or new member's class ending with confirmation and being able to receive communion. Now, if the adult is already LCMS, they would join the church by transfer of membership and not have to take catechism, but some places do still require attending a new member's class.

 

[Aibrean]

If the parents are Christians then there isn't an issue baptizing the children. You only really get into issues when someone who is not a Christian wants their children baptized because there is no discipleship/being raised with proper instruction.

The parents wouldn't be able to commune if they weren't baptized either.

 

[Zecryphon]

If the parents are Christians then there isn't an issue baptizing the children. You only really get into issues when someone who is not a Christian wants their children baptized because there is no discipleship/being raised with proper instruction.

The parents wouldn't be able to commune if they weren't baptized either.

Well with some denominations there is an issue with children being Baptized. Some denominations believe that Baptism is something we do for God, as opposed to something God does for us. So in that mindset they believe the child must be of a certain age before they can profess faith in Christ and be Baptized. This is why they don't believe in infant Baptism, since an infant can not proclaim Jesus is Lord, they obviously are not ready to make an outward display of faith based on an inward decision. My former ND church took this stance.

 

[Aibrean]

Well it was my understanding that the OP was about an LCMS church. I was speaking from the LCMS standpoint (I read their document on it a while back).

It has been the historic practice of the Lutheran church to welcome all children to Baptism, including those children whose parents may not be attending worship services--provided the parents give their consent and are at least open to bringing up this child in faithfulness to his or her baptismal covenant. Many times the Baptism of a child provides a wonderful occasion for bringing the Good News of Jesus and His salvation to a family. The Lutheran practice has been not to baptize a child contrary to the will and/or cooperation of the parents. Of necessity, pastoral judgment will have to be made in the individual case, since circumstances vary. For this reason, too, lay members of our congregations are urged to speak with their own pastor about individual cases where they may have a particular concern or desire.

 

[Zecryphon]

Well it was my understanding that the OP was about an LCMS church. I was speaking from the LCMS standpoint (I read their document on it a while back).

The OP is talking about an LCMS church and what would happen in regards to Baptism. But the OP never tells us what background the people wishing to join the LCMS church in his post are from. So, since you said "If the parents are Christians then there isn't an issue baptizing the children," I was simply pointing out that there could be an issue with Baptizing the children, depending on what the parents believe regarding Baptism, because not all Christian churches believe and teach the same thing as the LCMS and other confessional Lutheran churches.

 

[Aibrean]

Yes but in the OP it also said "if they wanted to join", and they can't join without being in doctrinal accord.

 

[tagyourit]

What I'm hearing from this particular PCA pastor is that believing parents are "in good standing" and have just joined the church and you have children...let's say ages 12 months to 7 years, then the little ones, , 4 and under, the pastor is saying "They'd be baptized as covenant children. And we could do the oldest, ( seven year old ) the same but if she is professing, then we'd need to decide what is more appropriate.” And that "As the child gets older, we usually do that as a “believer’s baptism”. That is to say that if a child wasn’t baptized as an infant and is old enough to understand, etc., then we would ask for a profession of faith from the child."

I think what he is saying is that if she has a credible profession, let's just take two birds with one stone...she might be baptized and allowed to have the Lord's Supper??

I don't expect you guys to explain why a PCA pastor is saying what he is saying , but in comparing and contrasting LCMS and PCA, LCMS seems more consistent in that you baptize all regardless of profession of faith??, then go through a membership/catechesis class before becoming a member, is that right?

I guess I'm trying to figure out why does the LCMS baptize infants and adults? What are the conditions?

In the PCA, it's a "sign and a seal pointing to the reality, etc etc" and some covanentalism thrown in there as well.

 

[Zecryphon]

Yes but in the OP it also said "if they wanted to join", and they can't join without being in doctrinal accord.

Yes, I understand that. What my comment was addressing was your statement that if they're Christians baptizing the children shouldn't be an issue. Not all Christian churches teach the same thing on Baptism. So while they would need to be in doctrinal agreement with the LCMS in order to join the LCMS church, if they are from another Christian background where Baptism of infants is not practiced and children aren't Baptized until a certain age, like if they believe in an age of accountability, like many other churches do, these people might initially have a problem with having their children Baptized, until they are taught correctly regarding Baptism by the LCMS.

 

[Zecryphon]

What I'm hearing from this particular PCA pastor is that if are a parent "in good standing" and have just joined the church and you have children...let's say ages 12 months to 7 years, then the little ones, let's say 4 and under, the pastor is saying "They'd be baptized as covenant children. And we could do the oldest, ( seven year old ) the same but if she is professing, then we'd need to decide what is more appropriate.” I think what he is saying is that if she has a credible profession, she might be allowed to have the Lord's Supper and be baptized?

I don't expect you guys to explain why a PCA pastor is saying what he is saying

, but in comparing and contrasting LCMS and PCA, LCMS seems more consistent in that you baptize all regardless of profession of faith??, then go through a membership/catechesis class before becoming a member, is that right?

How does the PCA judge whether or not a child's profession of faith is credible or not?

 

[tagyourit]

How does the PCA judge whether or not a child's profession of faith is credible or not?

The examination before the Session ( group of Elders ). I guess they ask a few basic doctrinal questions...if he/she passed, then you're in.

 

[tagyourit]

I'm want to understand how it would basically go down for someone in the LCMS in my #16 post above if they were in the same situation, but in LCMS and not PCA.