Infant Baptism, why do you reject it?

HisKid1973 · Apr 3, 2006

Oblio said:
FAllacy of assuming the consequent, that being the recent evangelical tradition of 'believer's baptism'

Repent and be baptised is recent..How old is the ethiopian enuch?

Oblio · Apr 3, 2006

Believers Baptism, the belief that one must have a rational belief prior to Baptism is a modern belief, born out of Western Rationalism, and unheard of until the advent of the anabaptist movement in the middle of the second millenium of Christianity.

HisKid1973 · Apr 3, 2006

Oblio said:
If one does not properly understand the fall of man, the role of the Church and the Sacraments of God, even Salvation itself, one will not understand Baptism, especially concerning those who Christ said, suffer not them who come to me ...

Children, yes my children at various ages could understand that Jesus died for them and they could trust in Him.

Catholic Dude · Apr 3, 2006

HisKid1973 said:
Children, yes my children at various ages could understand that Jesus died for them and they could trust in Him.

Exactly, faith exists in even infants even if it is "imperfect". So Infant Baptism is not in any way against faith.

TruthMiner · Apr 3, 2006

Catholic Dude said:
Why do some groups hold to the historical Christian teaching of infant Baptism while others do not?

The Catholic Church has always held to this important teaching as have groups like Anglicans, Lutherans and Calvinists but for some reason other groups reject it.

If you reject it, on what grounds do you reject it (especially considering other groups accept it)?

People reject it when they are duped by a false dichotomy between faith and baptism. They think that either faith "does it" or "baptism does it." If faith is the thing that "does it" then baptism most certainly can't be the thing that "does it".

This false premise all starts when you have an erroneous concept of what faith IS. If they didn't have such a ridiculous concept of what faith is, they wouldn't even question the matter.

Iollain · Apr 3, 2006

I don't think it is a sin or anything but i have a problem with someone thinking that they are bringing their sinful child to church where they will be baptised and recieve the Holy Spirit, you went in with a sinful baby and went out with one full of the Holy Spirit........i just can't imagine that.

Or i can't imagine grabing someone at the beach and baptising them, they would just be mad at ya, not baptised, imo.

Tonks · Apr 3, 2006

Catholic Dude said:
Exactly, faith exists in even infants even if it is "imperfect". So Infant Baptism is not in any way against faith.

That's because folks have the incorrect assumption that it is their belief in Christ that saves.....when everyone knows salvation is possible due to Christ's sacrifice.

Tonks · Apr 3, 2006

Iollain said:
I don't think it is a sin or anything but i have a problem with someone thinking that they are bringing their sinful child to church where they will be baptised and recieve the Holy Spirit, you went in with a sinful baby and went out with one full of the Holy Spirit........i just can't imagine that.

How is this any different than those that think mere faith in Christ is sufficient. Go from sinner to *poof* justified Christian merely based on a simple profession.

Iollain · Apr 3, 2006

Tonks said:
How is this any different than those that think mere faith in Christ is sufficient. Go from sinner to *poof* justified Christian merely based on a simple profession.

Well it is a good start don't ya think? What can ya do?

You mean ones who do not believe in baptism?

Melethiel · Apr 3, 2006

The main problem here is a difference in understanding of the purpose of baptism. If people reject baptism as a Mystery and means of grace in favor of a "symbolic profession", of course they would reject the baptism of infants.

TruthMiner · Apr 3, 2006

Tonks said:
That's because folks have the incorrect assumption that it is their belief in Christ that saves.....when everyone knows salvation is possible due to Christ's sacrifice.

NO it is worse than that. They think that it is their belief in concepts about Christ that saves.

TruthMiner · Apr 3, 2006

Catholic Dude said:
Exactly, faith exists in even infants even if it is "imperfect". So Infant Baptism is not in any way against faith.

That is really quite irrelevant. The infant does not need to have faith of any kind to receive God's gift. If you think it does, then you very likely have a mistaken concept of what faith is and its role in salvation.

Iollain · Apr 3, 2006

Melethiel said:
The main problem here is a difference in understanding of the purpose of baptism. If people reject baptism as a Mystery and means of grace in favor of a "symbolic profession", of course they would reject the baptism of infants.

I would agree with infant baptism if it were done because the child was the child of Christian parents and someday, by faith, that child will believe on Jesus. But this getting the Holy Spirit into the child at baptism is something i just cannot force myself to believe. With my own kids, i make sure they know after i know they have an understanding, that believers are baptised.

tall73 · Apr 3, 2006

Oblio said:
... and the babe leapt in her womb ....

Luk 1:15 for he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.

I am assuming that is not the norm, though it is an interesting picture of what one child was like.

Enacielle777 · Apr 3, 2006

Paleoconservatarian said:
If you won't baptize your child because you cannot pick your child's friends, why would you dedicate your child to someone? If you cannot pick your kid's friends (I think it's sad that we use this as an analogy for a sinner's relationship with Christ), why would you dedicate him to them?

But you're right. You don't get to choose. Our sovereign Lord does, and He has chosen the children of believers to enjoy the benefits of the covenant. "For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself" (Acts 2:39).

You make a good point about the covenant...which the exact reason they don't need to be baptised...they are already in His protection. Dedication is simply me making a commitment to raise my child in the right way. It is not saying anything about her relationship to Christ...like baptizing is saying she has been baptized into the faith.

Oblio · Apr 3, 2006

I am assuming that is not the norm, though it is an interesting picture of what one child was like.

It is the norm for children who are Baptised and Chrismated into the Church. We are given the example of St. John to show that it is not only for adults that the Holy Spirit is given.

tall73 · Apr 3, 2006

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

This seems to indicate that there is something going on in the person's mind during baptism.

Oblio · Apr 3, 2006

So, just when does a child become a member of the Church ? If they love Christ, pray to the most Holy Trinity, yet they have not rationalized their belief in Him, are they Christian ?

Iollain · Apr 3, 2006

That is where my Calvinism would kick in.

Iollain · Apr 3, 2006

It is the norm for children who are Baptised and Chrismated into the Church. We are given the example of St. John to show that it is not only for adults that the Holy Spirit is given.

I don't think anyone said He is only for adults.

Infant Baptism, why do you reject it?

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